I AM NOT OOP, OOP IS: [u/ThrowRAmarki](u/ThrowRAmarki)

Originally posted to: [r/relationship_advice](r/relationship_advice)

I (24M) can’t get over what she(25F) did even though I don’t think I can break up, what can I do? How do we move forward?

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, cheating, low self esteem, possible alcohol abuse, possible addiction

Mood spoiler: pure facepalm inducing frustration

Original post - October 2nd, 2026

I’ve been seeing my girlfriend since February of 2025. Honestly she is my first everything, and she is truly the love of my life, and even though I feel like angry I can’t deny that I love her.

We even officially moved in together June, after she lost her job earlier this year around March, but I got a new job and role and she’s been my pillar. I loved being able to come home to her, and it made going to work bearable because she was at home for me. I work a super dull and boring corporate fintech job and I hate it(my passion is story writing, but what can you do), but she’s been the only reason I haven’t straight up quit.

Around the beginning of September, I found out she got drunk last November on an outing with her friends, and cheated on me. It was devastating and rough to hear. The person who told me was her ex through some burner account, and I didn’t believe him, but he had photos. It wasn’t him she cheated with, but apparently one of his buddies. He told me he was looking out for me and wanted to tell me.

When I confronted her, all hell broke loose, and she admitted it’s true and it was a mistake. I even made sure to ask if she wasn’t coerced or anything, but she admitted it was consensual and a temporary lack in judgment. We argued, and I told her to get out. She begged me that we could work it out, but I was fuming, and packed her stuff while she tried stopping me, and I even got on my knees and told her if she truly cared about me, and if anything between us was real she would leave. I dropped her off at her old place to stay with her former roommate who is her friend.

Around 2-3 weeks went by, I had her blocked on everything. She even waited outside my apartment sometimes, but I told her not to and ignored her. I spoke with her friend and told her if she needed any cash I would be okay giving her some cash because I did kick her out. But I was miserable too. Coming home didn’t feel normal, and it sucked. I dreaded going home, stayed at the office longer than I needed too, went in on days even when I didn’t need to. I was miserable. I unblocked her and asked her to come over. She showed, she was crying, and telling me she had been wanting to chat and begged me to listen to her. We talked and she even said she would do therapy together or something if we needed.

Tbh, I was just happy to see her, and I also hugged her and cried, and it all spilled out. I told her I was mad that she cheated and idk if I could ever forgive her for doing it and then hiding it, but I also did miss her, and the past 12 days were miserable.

Anyway, we kinda semi-made up, and she moved back in. I have been trying to be nice because I did kick her out so suddenly and I feel terrible about that. I got her some shoes and bags she wanted, but she hasn’t even unpacked them, she thinks she doesn’t deserve it. She also cried a few more times and apologized. I told her I forgive her, but idk.

I also feel weak and pathetic for not respecting myself and for folding after just 12 days without her. But it was miserable coming back to an empty house with none of her things.

Part of me wishes I never found out and we could go back to before I found out. I genuinely would rather not know so I don’t feel like a lesser man for wanting to be with her, and so I would not have hurt her and kicked her out of the house. I even took her out to her favorite spot and we had a good date last week, but it ended with her saying “I’m not sure if I need or deserves all this” and she let a few silent tears out, and I had to hug her and say I forgive her.

How do we all just move on. I know I am a lesser man for taking her back, but I just want to not feel that way and just enjoy my time with her, and for her to stop feeling guilty about it too. Do I just tell her not to bring it up ever again? Did I ruin it by asking her to leave?

RELEVANT COMMENTS(The word “commenter” is abbreviated as ‘c’ from here on out, so ‘C1’ means ‘Commenter #1’ and so on):

C1: Yikes. Sorry this happened to you. I personally could never forgive cheating. What was her reasoning for doing it? Doesn’t it make you wonder if there were other instances this happened outside of this where there was actual proof? Trust will be hard to rebuild but you chose to forgave. You may find it harder than expected especially when she goes out with just her girlfriends.

OP to C1: I did. But she’s a homebody and rarely goes out. She was on a girls trip, and none of them knew either, and she got some flak from them too. Only 2 of her friends knew and encouraged her but about 2 months after that trip she stopped being friends with them and some unrelated group drama kicked them out, but she said she hated them since then, and was okay to see them leave the group.

There is always going to be doubt and that’s my issue. She offered to stop going out with her friends and never go on trips again but that’s not realistic. I want to be able to trust her.

But she did say, even back in March when she lost her job, she wants to never drink again and be sober forever, and she’s been good about that with no slip ups. I don’t drink anyway because my grandpa was an alcoholic and my dad raised me telling me addiction runs in our family and we should be careful so I never do anything of that sort, so she said she wants to join me. And she’s been good there. And stuff like that is why I love her so much. My cholesterol is higher than normal so I am weaning off red meat, and she is too even though she doesn’t have to.

Idk

C1 to OP: I still don’t see what was her reasoning for cheating? Is it that she felt confined for being a homebody and wanted to let loose? Was it the alcohol impairing her judgement? The reason makes a difference.

OP to C1: Alcohol, they were both drunk

C2: Sounds like you’re rewarding her behavior by buying her things.

OP to C2: No I was rather fucked up for packing her stuff in front of her when she was begging me not to and kicking her out when she had nowhere else to go. Her friends landlord already filled her old room with someone else, so she had to sleep in the couch and it’s only by luck her ex-roommates new roommate was chill and let her stay and didn’t snitch. Imagine she had nowhere to go and because I saw red she had to be on the street. Her parents live in another country and might not even be able to come here on time.

I own the part where I fucked up.

C3: Cheat on her back. Or use the guilt to get one sided open relationship, ideally.

OP to C3: I don’t want anyone except her man, I wish I could bring myself to just think like that, it’s not like that though. Idk why

C4: Sorry this happened to you. You kicking her out of the house isn’t something you should feel bad about, a lot of people would react the same way. Why are you buying her gifts and stuff is it because you feel guilty for kicking her out? Clearly she’s remorseful and you love her, but shit that stuff will leave a permanent mark on your brain that you won’t ever forget. I don’t have a ton of advice, but you seem like a really good guy.

OP to C4: Yeah. I didn’t even know if she had a place to stay when I kicked her out. I took her back to her old place, but the landlord had already filled her old room with someone else. Her ex-roommates new roommate was chill and let her sleep on the couch for those 12 days, but her parents don’t even live in this country and she doesn’t have family here. I wish I thought more rationally. Her ex-roommate is her friend but they aren’t super tight, and she had to sleep on the couch and stay at that place for 12 days and feel like a nuisance and impose on them. I can’t imagine it must’ve been easy. It’s stupid but even after everything I like her and can’t stand to think about how terrible that situation must’ve been for her. I wish I like went and got a hotel room or something and let her stay in the apartment till I could calm down.

C4 to OP: Was her losing her job in march around the time of the cheating? Did she lose her job related to alcohol?

OP to C4: She lost the job March, and the other incident was last November. The job loss was because of layoffs not her fault. Unrelated incidents

C5: I’m sorry but you are foolish for taking back a cheater.

OP to C5: I know and objectively if I saw this happening to another man I would feel the same, but idk man

C6: "Officially moved in together." Is that somehow different from unofficially moving in? What officiants were involved? You moved in together AFTER she lost her job? No bueno. And after she cheated, you took her back after less than two weeks?

"How do we all just move on"? You just pretend that she is not a cheater and you don't expect her to go out and get drunk and do it all over again while she knows you will welcome her with open arms, because you have shown her that's who you are. "She let a few silent tears out, and I had to hug her and say I forgive her." Cut and print.

"Did I ruin it by asking her to leave?' No. You ruined it by bringing her back.

OP to C6: We planned to move in anyway, even when she had a job, just waited for the lease to wrap up on her end

Update - October 11th, 2026

So basically, a couple days after my first post I got another job offer in a city 9 hours away. They wanted me to start within two weeks, and the current place I work for is at-will and while a two week notice is standard, I told them I had to leave ASAP, and wrapped everything up in two days and started packing up. I flew out to the new city, and found a temporary place that does leasing by month, got it for two months, and broke the contract and paid it out to my current place. My previous apartment and this one are pre-furnished, so there wasn’t much to move. I like getting apartments pre-furnished, less stuff to move and I don’t need to set up my own internet.

She came with me. The shoes and bag I bought her, I handed them over to my cousin telling her that they were the wrong size for my girlfriend. They aren’t my cousins size either so she said she would give them to her girlfriend or a friend. My girl said she really doesn’t feel like she deserved it, and wanted me to give it away.

It’s been a return to normal slowly. We’ve been in the new apartment since Friday. We drove and moved here in middle of the hurricane prep so that was something to say at the least. We live right above a grocery store. She really likes this place so we may move into a more permanent lease after spending sometimes here.

I only start next Tuesday(not this Tuesday) so we have time here still.

I really like her. I know it’s weak to forgive her and try to move on, but I really do want to. She told me I should see her phone anytime and gave me all her passwords, and I check them randomly still, but I do trust her for now(I will still check randomly). She said she will never hang out with her girlfriends without me or go out without me, but I told her thats not possible and we can build trust again. Well, she may be right in a way, because now we’re in a new place and we don’t know anyone. She is a homebody and rarely leaves the house so idk how she will make friends here. All her friends were people she knew from college.

Anyway, we also started looking at online relationship counselors and things. Maybe some group therapy. She has been trying to make up for it and ask for forgiveness in many different ways, she never even lets me cook anymore. I don’t want her to be like this either, I told her we gotta return to some type of normal.

I am just rambling but new city, new environment, I want her here. Can’t imagine how much worse this move and things would’ve been without her here.

Not much of an update, but when I was opening my devices again to make sure all of them were connected to the internet, I saw this and just wanted to close it out. I know a lot of you will be unhappy with the choice I took, but I just wanna move past it. I can’t imagine my life without her in it, and I know it makes me look like a weak man, but I really do like her. And she’s also been a good partner aside from this thing. I wanna choose to believe it was the alcohol that night and just not something she would usually do. And with us being 100% sober now, I have hope. I just want a life with her, I can’t imagine anything else.

Anyway I will end the rambling now.

RELEVANT COMMENTS:

C1: Doormats are like $7.99 at Lowe’s.

She’s got one that goes out and gets her a paycheck.

C2: And they lived miserably ever after.

C3: People on Reddit have zero respect for him, imagine what his gf thinks of him?

He’s at work in a new city and she’s flat on her back with Guy de jour in her laughing at OP

THIS IS A REPOST SUB I AM NOT OOP

REMEMBER BORU RULE #7 AND DO NOT CONTACT OR COMMENT ON ANY OF THE OOP’S ORIGINAL POSTS, KEEP ALL CONVERSATION IN BORU

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/easytoremember199

Originally posted to r/marriage

My (27M) wife (28F) lied about a call from an ex, and now I'm questioning everything

Trigger Warnings: emotional infidelity

---

Original Post: October 10, 2026

My (27M) wife (28F) and I have been together for 8 years and married for 6. Our relationship has always been incredible. She moved to my country to be with me after initially coming here temporarily for school, and we've built a life together. We're aligned on pretty much everything, barely fight, have complete trust in each other, and have the exact same silly sense of humour. We're best friends, share everything, and naturally operate as a team. We have a puppy we adore and are excited about our future together.

I've been cheated on before, so I'm not exactly naive to the fact that things can come out of nowhere, but she's really never given me a reason to suspect anything.

A few months ago, we were watching TV on the couch after having smoked weed and eaten dinner, which is a pretty normal evening for us. Her phone lit up with an Instagram call. This immediately struck me as odd because she never uses Instagram to call anyone.

She grabbed her phone, turned it away from me, and spent around 30 seconds doing something on it while looking confused. I repeatedly asked what was going on, but she either didn't respond or said things like, "I don't know what's going on, this is weird."

I asked to see the screen, and she said to wait because she was trying to figure it out. Eventually, she put the phone down and told me it was a random spam call and that she'd blocked the person.

Her reaction was completely out of character. In eight years together, she'd never acted this way, and we'd never had issues with trust or hiding things from each other.

The next day, I brought it up again because it was bothering me. She apologized for how she'd handled it, saying it was just a random call, and she was confused, partly probably because she was high. I wasn't entirely convinced, but I let it go.

A month or two later, I asked her about it again. She said she didn't really know why she'd reacted that way and apologized for not letting me see her phone.

Today, we were working on some home renovation projects together, and I used her phone to set up Spotify. I noticed she had a Spotify conversation with a man I didn't recognize.

There were fewer than 20 messages spread over roughly a month and a half, starting a few months ago and ending about six weeks ago. They were sharing songs and there was one Spotify Jam request. Nothing was overly flirty or inappropriate.

She explained that he's a coworker. He lives in another country that she occasionally travels to for work, and he controls the music at their office. He's around our age, they get along, and he's a chill guy.

I wouldn't normally think twice about this. She has friends at work, and I'm not someone who expects her to disclose every conversation she has. What struck me as unusual was that she talks about several of her coworkers, but I'd barely heard about this guy.

Combined with the Instagram incident, though, it made me uneasy. So I brought up the Instagram call situation again.

After I pressed her about the Instagram call, she finally admitted that it had been an ex from her home country calling her. She said she panicked because she felt weird about him contacting her unexpectedly, so she lied about it being a random call.

She said she'd blocked him during that initial interaction. I explained that the lie itself was making it difficult to trust her explanation, and she said she understood and was sorry. Her explanation was that she didn't know why he was calling, panicked, and then felt compelled to maintain the lie.

I asked if I could see her Instagram blocked list. She refused, saying that we don't look through each other's phones and that she wouldn't do it on principle.

For context, we have never had a rule against using each other's phones for ordinary things, and we have shared finances and a very open relationship (as in open to sharing things with each other. I even have access to her email). We just haven't made a habit of going through each other's private conversations.

I pushed back, explaining that the situation was different now because she'd admitted to lying and that seeing the blocked list would help reassure me.

She eventually started saying she couldn't remember whether she'd kept him blocked or might have unblocked him later. We checked the blocked list together, and he wasn't there. She said she thought she must have unblocked him at some point.

I then asked if we could go through her phone together, with her present the entire time. She refused again, saying it was a matter of principle. (She's also very stubborn and her standing on principles when doing the opposite would be easier is not at all out of character).

I told her that if our positions were reversed, I believe she'd also want reassurance, and that I didn't understand why she'd refuse if there was nothing to hide. We couldn't get anywhere with that conversation, and that's where things stand.

I want to be clear that I don't have any other concrete evidence of infidelity. Our relationship is genuinely great. We spend lots of time together, share our lives, trust each other in practically every other respect, and have plans for our future. She's never given me a reason to suspect she's cheating.

There also isn't much unexplained time in her schedule, although she does occasionally travel internationally for work.

The things bothering me are:

\• Her initial reaction to the Instagram call was extremely unusual for her.

\• She deliberately turned her phone away and wouldn't let me see what was happening.

\• She lied about who was calling and maintained that lie over multiple conversations.

\• She said she'd blocked her ex, but he wasn't on her blocked list when we checked.

\• Now that she's admitted to lying, she's refusing to offer any further reassurance by letting me look through her phone.

\• The Spotify messages with the male coworker are innocent on their face, but the timing and the fact that I barely knew about him have made me question things I otherwise wouldn't have questioned.

At the same time, I recognize that refusing to let a partner inspect your phone doesn't automatically mean you're hiding something. I don't want to become controlling or turn a previously healthy relationship into one where we have to prove our innocence to each other.

So, am I being paranoid?

Is this a case of someone panicking over an unexpected call from an ex, making a stupid decision to lie, and then digging in because she feels her privacy is being challenged? Or is the combination of the initial secrecy, the changing explanation about blocking him, and the refusal to let me see anything reasonably concerning?

I'm struggling to figure out how much weight to put on the fact that she's never given me a reason to distrust her versus the fact that she has now demonstrably lied to me about something.

I'd appreciate honest perspectives, including if you think I'm handling this badly. I'm not looking for people to automatically tell me she's cheating or that I'm right. I want an outside perspective on what's reasonable here and how to move forward.

TL;DR: My wife and I have been together for 8 years and have an incredible relationship with no history of trust issues. A few months ago, she received an unexpected Instagram call, hid her phone from me, and claimed it was spam. She recently admitted it was an ex from her home country and that she'd panicked and lied. She initially said she'd blocked him, but he wasn't on her blocked list when we checked. She now refuses to let me see her phone, saying it's against her principles. I have no other evidence of cheating, but her behaviour is completely out of character. Am I being paranoid, or is my concern justified?

Relevant / Top Comments

Commenter 1: She doesn't remember unblocking him? lol.

OOP: Yeah. Obvious bullshit. That was stupid and was what led me to pushing for the real truth

Commenter 2: Let her know if she doesn’t show you then trust is broken. Not to expect things to be the same. If she deletes she has to find a way to recover them

Commenter 3: “I want to be clear that I don't have any other concrete evidence of infidelity.”

Are you really so sure about that bro?

You caught her lying.

You caught her lying about a call on Instagram from an ex, something you said she never uses.

You caught her lying about blocking him.

She refused to show you her phone on the night of the incident.

She refuses to show you her phone now.

You may not have video footage of your wife with her ankles in the air for another man, but you definitely have concrete proof that your wife is a liar, is shady and hiding an ongoing conversation with an ex. Why on earth would she unblock him unless she was up to no good??

Your house is currently on fire whether you want to admit there is smoke or not.

Commenter 4: .... bad news bears..

She rather protect her secrets.. whatever they are.. then let you see who she is on that phone.

She knows something you won't like so if u know.. u can leave.. or why not show you so u feel better.. because if u look.. u definitely won't feel better. She knows that.

Where were her principals when she was lying.. several times.. seems principals only come up. To cover her ass!

"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles." There are perceptions where ur kindness, will only be ur downfall with them.. they plan on it.

Commenter 5: The problem is she’s still lying, and every time you catch her she lies again, and the lies keep getting worse. People only deceive like this to protect something, so whatever she’s protecting is big enough to lie to your face repeatedly.

“She’s never given me a reason to distrust her.” What are you smoking? She gave you like five. You’re hoping this is that rare case where someone is acting shady about an ex and it isn’t related to infidelity. Sorry, those cases are about as rare as Halley’s Comet, and this ain’t that.

I’d give her one last chance to fess up or I’d walk.

 

Update: October 11, 2026 (next day)

UPDATE: My (27M) wife (28F) lied about an Instagram call from her ex, and I found out what was really going on

Well, you guys convinced me that something was definitely up. And unfortunately, you were right.

My wife went to bed, but I still wasn't feeling okay about the whole situation. I went upstairs and told her I wanted to see her phone. I told her that the whole "principle" argument was bullshit at this point. She said she'd let me look if I could promise her that we'd be okay afterward. I told her I obviously couldn't promise that before knowing what I was going to find, and that I just wanted to look at the phone.

She stood her ground, so I stormed out and slammed the door, which is extremely out of character for me.

She came running downstairs after me and told me I could look through her phone. She later told me she'd been scared because she thought I was going to do something crazy. For the record, I wasn't going to hurt her or myself. I was just incredibly frustrated and upset.

I went through everything. Instagram DMs, deleted messages, deleted photos, hidden photos, etc. I found nothing.

I then asked her to pull up her ex's Instagram profile. She fumbled around trying to explain that she'd unblocked him at some point but hadn't followed him again. Sure enough, she pulled up his profile, and she wasn't following him.

I then followed the advice one of you gave me and tried to go down the Instagram "download your information" route, and that's when I found something interesting.

She had already downloaded her Instagram data two months ago, on the exact night she received the Instagram call.

Well, shit.

It all came out after that.

As it turns out, the Spotify messages weren't innocent background noise. And the whole situation had nothing to do with her ex.

It was the coworker.

She met him on her last work trip at the end of June. They got along well and started chatting frequently during the workday. Eventually, their conversations moved over to Instagram.

According to her, their Instagram messages were very flirty. Not sexual, but definitely flirty. She sent him a few selfies, and he sent her selfies as well, including shirtless pictures.

I also went through their entire Microsoft Teams chat history. They talk quite a bit, and there are occasional flirty exchanges, although nothing particularly egregious (makes sense, its teams after all). I'm still waiting for the Instagram data download to come through so I can understand the full extent of their conversations.

So, to be clear, I still haven't established that anything physical happened. The message timelines line up with her not having gotten close with him until a good bit after the work trip. I don't know whether there was more to their conversations than she's admitted, and I don't know how far things would have gone if I hadn't confronted her.

But at this point, the issue isn't just a single lie about an unexpected call from an ex. It's the repeated lying, the secrecy, and the fact that I had to push this hard to get anywhere close to the truth.

I came into this with eight years of a relationship that I genuinely thought was rock solid. I never imagined I'd be in this position with her.

I honestly don't know if I'm going to be able to move forward from this. Part of me wants to believe that this was a terrible lapse in judgment that never went beyond flirting. Another part of me is wondering what else I don't know.

For now, I'm trying to process everything and figure out what comes next. I'll update again when I have more information.

What are your thoughts?

Thank you to everyone who took the time to offer advice, challenge my perspective, and help me think through this. I wish you guys hadn't been right, but I'm glad I listened.

Editor’s note: OOP made lots of responses, I am listing some for more context

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: This is the kind of thing that doesn't need to be physical to be a complete betrayal. Eight years and she's downloading her own data to cover tracks before you even knew something was off. That takes planning.

The coworker thing always stings worse too because it's not some random. It's someone she sees regularly, built a rapport with, made a conscious choice every single day to keep it going. The flirty selfies and shirtless pics alone would be a dealbreaker for me, teams messages or not.

You're handling this with way more patience than most people would. Just remember you don't need a smoking gun to walk away, the trust is already shattered and she's the one who swung the hammer.

Commenter 2: Bro this!!!! She fucking lied and then went down the hole of downloading all her insta data. Nobody knows how to just do that, so I guarantee she looked up how to. That’s so fucked up

Commenter 3: Yeah, what does that even mean? She deleted it with the option to upload it at another time? Tell me like I’m five.

Commenter 2: Dude even I don’t really have a clue. From my understanding it’s almost like a file of data off insta that you can download to your phone or computer and then delete all the evidence off insta itself.

Bring up a question of why she even wants to keep any of that… I could be totally wrong as well so someone who is more knowledgeable please chime in

OOP: I can give you her stated reason - it was because she was scared I was going to find out, as I was onto her after the call. She found out you can recover deleted data and wanted to see how much it showed.

Commenter 4: She's still only giving you what you can find. If you want to try and salvage your marriage you need to tell her it's time to come clean about any and everything or else you're done immediately. Tell her that any omissions or more lies it's over and see what happens.

Either that or you've already found enough to realize she's not who you thought she was and call a lawyer.

OOP: I did, but you're right. How do I now know there isn't more being hidden that I wasn’t able to confirm?

Commenter 5: Lie, lies, lies and more lies... IF you stay with her, she needs to accept that this guy is NC forever .. and that means that unless she can get her employer to stop sending her on trips near him, she quits the job.

OOP: She's as remorseful as possible and it feels like the full truth finally came out. Now it's on me to decide what to do with the information - we'll see. It was her idea to go no contact and message him directly telling him it's done, but with the trust gone, how do I know she won't continue in a sneaker way?

She's committed to doing absolutely anything and everything possible to regain my trust. She called him a distraction - he was good lucking and she put it all up to enjoying the attention from him.

Commenter 6: Ask for a written timeline of the affair - ALL intimacy listed...

OP... There needs to be consequences for her if you want to avoid a reoccurrence...

She's agreed to quit the job if that's what it takes to ensure she'll never meet him??

She's agreed to open device policy forever???

OOP: No, she hasn't agreed to those things specifically, because I haven’t asked for that yet. I told her I need to think about it.

With the current job market and a mortgage to pay, I don't exactly want her to quit her job either.

I'll have to figure it out, but I understand the intent of your message. You're right.

Some of OOP's responses to a long thread about the text exchanges between OOP's wife and the co-worker

OOP: Not really, but all I've seen so far was on teams. I’m mentioned, but there's absolutely no venting, complaining, or anything close. In fact if anything, it's positive.

It's so hard to give all of the details of our conversations and our relationship dynamic through reddit, but yes. I believe there's a potential path forward where I could trust her again. It would take time + couples therapy, but I know she's 100% committed to gaining the trust back. The decision I have to make is whether this was already bad enough for me to seek divorce.

+

OOP: Yes to all of your first three questions. She's absolutely destroyed about this, while simultaneously understanding I’m not here to make her feel okay right now.

She suggested directly contacting the coworker, ending things, going no contact. We got into the 'why' and it was a bit long to add into my post, but essentially she said it was "nothing" (as in emotionally). That she thinks she just enjoyed the attention, but that she realizes it was insanely stupid and not at all worth it. (for what it’s worth, this guy is unfortunately VERY good looking, hahaha).

I'm currently waiting on the Instagram data to be sent over by Meta, so time will tell what I'm able to see. It's being sent directly to me without her having access beforehand, which she was completely fine with.

She's dealing with this the best way she can now, but the problem is all the lying it took to get to this point.

+

OOP: Semantics - I worded it that way, but to be clear, she meant it was "nothing" as in nothing emotionally. She acknowledges the hidden flirty photo-sending relationship they have is still extremely wrong. She was referring to messaging him and telling him they can't talk anymore.

+

OOP: Apparently calls never happened, and it was a pocket dial. She asked him the next day, and he confirmed it was an 'accident'. It happened at a time where it might have been around 3am for him though, so it was also potentially him drunk calling.

Because I’ll have access to the Instagram logs soon, I'll be able to confirm that. If that was a lie, this is 100% over. If it was not a lie, I’m back to "it's likely over but there's a chance it's not".

Nothing about the story changed after realizing I'd have all the data.

The message you suggested she send? She already committed to doing that (on her own accord, I hadn't asked for that yet).

He is single, however I'm also planning to message him and get his account of things.

+

OOP: He might not be truthful - I'm going to come at it nice and see what he says. We'll see. I'm looking to see if the stories match.

She was forthcoming about the fact that shirtless photos were sent by him, but again, she's been trickle-truthing so much, what’s to say worse photos and messages weren't sent.

+

OOP: Unfortunately no, I wasn't able to see the texts. Instagram data was downloaded but conversations with him are missing. I looked into it and it seems impossible she managed to do this herself - seems more a case of the messages all being deleted so quickly they never had a chance to be archived.

On the trickle truthing, there's one thing she trickle truthed post-full confrontation. She said the last message was 2 weeks ago, and then decided to tell me it was 3 days ago. At the time she believed the messages to be unrecoverable (which it seems they may be), but she 'decided, I guess' to tell me the truth. I don't know.

+

OOP: She said they were regular selfies - that some definitely had cleavage, but a regular amount based on what she would have been wearing that day.

What about the ex? Did OOP's wife lie about him? Has things gone too far with the wife's lying?

OOP: She didn't lie about an ex - the ex story was a cover-up about this guy. Also, I never said I believe that nothing would have ever happened had I not caught this. I explicitly said that's the part I struggle to believe.

You're right. Maybe things would have progressed further, and she just hasn't yet had a chance to show me just how much she is willing to disrespect me and disrespect our relationship. I'll have to figure out if the risk of that is something I'm willing to put up with or not.

Does the coworker really live aboard? Did things happen on the day of the trip?

OOP: He does really live abroad. I checked her teams, I checked his LinkedIn. It all lines up.

On your second point, I can't confirm that things didn't happen the day she met him, but I can confirm that they started messaging often after the trip, like she had said, and I noticed the messages were more innocent at first, leading me to believe this was a build-up.

Is OOP's wife leaving her job?

OOP: The one thing she doesn't agree with is leaving her job. I haven't pushed for that or made it an ultimatum though. She absolutely loves her job/company and is in a good place. Some detail I haven't shared yet - the guy is in IT and she is in Marketing. She doesn't really have a real reason to connect, they only met at the office, not even at a conference or work event where they would HAVE to be together. Of course though, I brought up the fact that she will still have to travel to where she lives. Her solution: she would reach out to her company and tell her she can't travel to that country anymore.

Her response to the "no easy fix" right now is that she 100% understands, and will stick through doing what she needs to do as long as it takes to rebuild my trust.

Commenter 7: Did she tell him she was in a relationship or was she pretending to be single?

OOP: He knew she was married.

 

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/woozlefangirl

I [22F] am getting married soon. My mom had an affair 5 years ago and destroyed our family. We are slowly rebuilding a relationship but it's not close. Dad just told me if she's at the wedding he can't come. Help me!

Original BoRU

Original Post May 13, 2016

I am a long time lurker but a first time poster. I never thought I would be posting to Reddit, but here we are!

Quick  side note, I know my fiance and I are very young but we have been  together for years and were friends since childhood before we became a  couple. Also, hate to say it, but we are religious and it's common in  our culture to marry young. We've been through both pre-marital and  financial counseling so we feel very prepared :)

Anyways,  my issue at hand has to do with the wedding. My fiance, "Steve" and I  are getting married in 8 months. We don't have a lot of money and  honestly neither of us can stand fancy-do's so we are having a very  private ceremony with only his best man and my maid of honor as  witnesses and then we are having a tiny reception afterwards with only  50 people total. So obviously this is going to be quite an intimate  reception.

Here is the thing. My  parents can't really stand each other. Or at least my dad can't stand my  mom. Five years ago, in my last year of high school, my mother was  caught having an affair with her married coworker. It destroyed my  parents marriage.

My father became  a changed man. He was always a happy and confident outgoing guy but he  became quiet, withdrawn and just...empty. It's killed me seeing him like  this.

My mother moved out because  me and my younger brother (who was 15 at the time) basically told her  to GTFO. I have always been close with my mom, loved her to pieces, but  finding out about her affair and seeing what it did to my dad (I've  always known my dad to adore my mother) nuked my relationship with her.

My  brother and I went no contact with her for about a year. I finally  relented when I sent her an invitation to my high school graduation, but  made it clear her partner was not invited. My brother took a little  longer to come around but he talks to her from time to time. Both of us  told the judge we wanted to live with our dad full time which was  granted to us.

My relationship  with my mother is still strained and distant. I know she wants more,  she's constantly trying to talk to me and she sobbed in relief when I  sent her my graduation invite after not talking to her for almost a  year, but I keep her at arm's length and merely make polite casual  conversation now and again. I still love my mother and I don't want to  cut her out completely but this is as close as I want her and I will  never again have a close relationship with her.

As for her affair partner (apparently they are still together after his  wife caught and divorced him) I have never met him and made it clear to  my mother I do not want to. If Mom and I meet for coffee or anywhere he  is not to come, I refuse to see pictures or discuss him with her. If she  brings him up I immediately change the subject. I have no idea if my  mom is happy with him, if they doing well, etc.  I frankly don't care.

As  for my father...in a way we are closer but he clearly has his issues.  It's been 5 years and he's clearly not over the cheating and divorce.  He's not angry or bitter about it, just very sad and depressed. He won't  call my mom or her lover by their names. He calls them "he/him" and  "she/her." He hasn't dated once since the divorce either.

He  won't be around her. For my graduation, they had to be at polar  opposite ends of the bleachers and I had to have my phone on me so I  could text my mom when she was allowed to approach and congratulate me  and then so I could text my dad to let him know my mom left. It will be  this way when I graduate college as well.

So,  my question goes to my wedding. After I told my dad what Steve and I  had planned for our wedding and reception he got very quiet and asked if  I planned on inviting "her and him."

I  said yes I would probably invite my mom even though her partner is not  invited. My dad quietly said it's rude to only invite one half of a  couple. He then said he didn't think he could come if she was going to  be there. That maybe he could be there before or after she comes, but he  just doesn't think he could interact with her in such a close setting.

I was floored and very hurt. I told my dad I would think about it.

Steve and I need to start sending out save-the-dates pretty soon so we need  to get this resolved. I've talked about this with Steve and while he is  very sweet and says he will fully support me no matter what decision I  make, that I'm the only one who can make this choice.

I  also talked to my brother about it and he says he will show up no matter what but he won't have much to do with our mother (if she's  invited) beyond basic courtesies and that he understands dad's position  but thinks he's being kind of ridiculous. He also said technically it's  rude to not invite her boyfriend but it's also pretty rude to destroy  two families by having an affair with another married man so her  boyfriend can go fuck himself and Mother can shove wedding etiquette up  her ass. Personally he'd prefer I not invite her either but it's my  wedding and I can do what I want and he will roll with it (my brother is  a very blunt man and has not been as forgiving of the affair as I  have).

So now I'm stuck. On the one hand if we are being honest, I really do want to invite my mother to  my wedding reception. I absolutely WILL NOT invite her boyfriend  regardless of how tacky it seems. He is not and will never be a part of  our family. And honestly, I'm kind of angry with my dad. Believe me, I understand his pain and hurt but it's been 5 years and I think he needs  to start moving on. It's fine if he doesn't like Mom, I don't much like  her either, but to boycott my own wedding because she might be coming?!? Get over yourself! It's like his hurt feelings are more important than  his only daughter's wedding! He really can't suck it up and just be in a  reception hall with her for a few hours?

On  the other...I really love my dad. I hate seeing him hurt, I can't stand  causing him pain. If I absolutely have to choose between my two parents  I will pick my father every time. Despite him being kind of a wet blanket about the wedding he's a good man with a good heart. My dad and I  are very close and I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with him and I would much rather he be at my wedding than my mother. Plus I'm  thinking since I refuse to invite my mom's boyfriend and it really is  considered a wedding faux pas I just shouldn't invite her altogether. I really don't want my dad to not come.

But, despite how my mom and I are not and will never be close again and how I  think she's getting her just desserts for having an affair...I don't want to hurt her by not inviting her altogether.

I'm  well and truly stuck. I don't know what to do and honestly I've broken down crying over this a few times because it's just so stressful and I feel caught in the middle between two people I love. Please help Reddit.

TL;DR  Mom had an affair 5 years ago and parents divorced. Mom and I have  somewhat reconciled but we aren't very close. I am getting married. My dad is not angry but told me he doesn't think he can come to my tiny  reception if my mom will be there. I want to invite both my parents but  feel torn. My mother's lover is not invited regardless of decisions.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

When asked if her mom was a great mom and has OOP had therapy?

She was actually a pretty great Mom until the affair but it could be she's an asshole AND a good mother.

I  went to my own personal therapy during and after the divorce and  reflecting back on it my dad was always very good to my mom, showed her  lots of affection, gave praise, helped her when she was sick, would  spontaneously buy her flowers and other presents etc. But my mom never  really reciprocated. It's always been obvious to me my dad adored my mom  but thinking back, I wasn't ever sure she loved him because she  certainly never showed it.

My therapist also pointed out that people can be good parents but also  terrible partners and/or people outside of that role and that honestly  helped me come to terms with getting over the affair between reconciling  the mother I knew who I loved and was close with and this selfish  person who did a terrible thing to our family. I really think she is one  of those people my therapist described (good parent, bad partner and/or  person) and that the two aren't mutually exclusive or inclusive.

~

RememberKoomValley

Options as I see them:

1. Invite them both.  Sit down with your dad and say "Look, I love you and I want you to be there. You are going to regret missing it. You won't have to talk to her. If she tries to talk to you I'll have her thrown out. It's important to me that she be there even though we're not close anymore, and it's important to me that you be there, and while the choice is obviously yours, I'm going to be really hurt if you don't come. (With this option, tell your mother that she is not to engage with your siblings or your father, that she's not to attempt to mend any broken fences at the event.)

2. Invite one to the wedding and one to the reception. Or one to the rehearsal and one to the actual day.  Probably your mother should get the reception or rehearsal in that case.

3. Invite neither of them. Nuclear option. "If you can't behave like adults, just don't come." Not recommended. 

It's healthy to avoid certain people being in your life. To some extent I can see where your dad is coming from--I've regularly recommended that someone just not go somewhere that, say, an ex-abuser is going to be in attendance. But if he were here I would almost certainly tell him to suck it up.

I will say that if they end up in the same room, it should absolutely not fall on your shoulders to be texting your dad and telling him when it's OK to approach.  Someone else needs to do that for you, if that has to happen; you're going to be under enough stress.

OOP

This is really good advice.

I've considered inviting my dad to the wedding itself and my mom to the reception but neither Steve nor I really want to do this. It's very nontraditional on both our parts to have a super private ceremony but we have it this way for a reason (we don't want a large audience and it was too hard to pick which people to have there and which to only have at the reception so we said "screw it, just our closest friends as witnesses."

I really do need to sit my dad down and talk to him about this again. I really like your option number one, it's very good, thank you for this whole post.

Update  June 1, 2016 (18 Days Later)

Hi  everyone. Sorry I took so long to post but I got very busy, part of  which was spent graduating college so I'm glad THAT's finally out of the  way. Here is the link for those who need a recap:

https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/4j727c/i_22f_am_getting_married_soon_my_mom_had_an/

WARNING:  This is a VERY long update. Also this post is probably going to get  flamed. Judging how the comments went down as more time went on the  longer my post was up, this is probably going to anger many people. But  there were also lots of nice and helpful people too, especially u/RememberKoomValley

So I was reading all the comments and the more time went on the more angry  and upset I became. People eventually started saying why should parents always have to sacrifice for children, some said I was being a bridezilla and only caring about my day (of course I care! It's my  wedding! It's supposed to be a once in a lifetime event that I want to share with everyone!), many people said my dad had depression and my mother's actions were so evil he was forever off the hook for good. Everyone was giving suggestions on how I could meticulously plan the days to rotate everyone and I felt like screaming.

Steve  eventually told me to get off of Reddit because he hated seeing me so  upset. I couldn't even say exactly WHY I was upset. I just was. Steve said maybe I should go back to my old therapist that I had when my  parents got divorced and talk it out with her. To me, this seemed like a  great idea. I called her up and asked to have an appointment, despite finals being right around the corner.

So I went and EVERYTHING came out. How much I hurt still from what Mom did  and how we can never be close again. And honestly how ANGRY I am at my  father. I never really realized it, but I've gotten so furious and resentful of him. How he never even TRIED to get out of his funk, how  dejected he acted if mom somehow came up, how he never said anything  DIRECTLY bad about her but subtly made me feel so guilty for loving her. Acting mopey, going from fine to depressed if she somehow came up, how I always feel like I have to walk on eggshells around him and how he gets a free pass because he got cheated on; Something that happens to tons  of people every day.

I talked and  talked and talked. I made a couple more appointments. I got through  finals (I want to shout out to Steve here. He is the only reason I got through it all, passed, and got my degree. He is an incredible human  being.)

The tipping point was my  graduation day. Once again, my father made it clear Mom couldn't be sat  near him and he couldn't be near her at all. I had to text her when she  could come talk to me and had to text him once she left.

Her boyfriend was, of course, not invited. But it was so embarrassing  having to contact the officials in charge of the ceremony and ask if my tickets could be changed so my parents could sit far away from each other. They were kind and understanding but that's when I began to get very very angry. My mom has no problem with my dad. She doesn't mind  being near him even though she doesn't love him. I began to think how I'm going to have to rearrange ALL my milestones. My marriage, when I have children, my children's christenings and birthday parties...etc.

Graduation  was miserable. I couldn't look in any one direction to see my family as I got my degree and walked the stage because they had to be spread out.

I  had to make sure my phone was on me and fully charged so I could coordinate my mother and father's locations. It was so awkward mingling  with one group and then my mother, knowing both groups were waiting to have their turn.

My brother interacted with my mother and he was kind of cold but cordial  nonetheless. My mother made no complaints, didn't try to argue or force  herself in there, and patiently waited for her "turn" even though I could tell she was dying to spend more time with me. Pictures had to be  rotated. I couldn't have ONE with all my family in there. My father was constantly texting during my time with her asking if she had left yet  and if he could come back now.

It  seemed so...CHILDISH. Honestly, the rest of my family could tolerate my  mother being around. After all, the divorce was YEARS ago. It's time to start getting over it and moving on with life. It was only because of my DAD that I couldn't relax and just be happy and enjoy my graduation  with my family.

I was supposed to  go to dinner with my dad, boyfriend and other family after graduation to celebrate. I told them I felt very sick and I needed to go home. I just  didn't want to be around anyone anymore.

Steve just held me while I bawled my eyes out. I hadn't cried that hard in years. I met with my therapist a couple more times. This is turning into a novel so I will summarize what I came to realize in therapy:

While the initial anger and hate I felt for my mom was real, I never stopped loving her. But, I felt like because my dad had been wronged, I had to  take "his side." My dad has always made me feel guilty for loving my  mother still. While his actions have never been overt, it has been very  subtle manipulation. I felt like I had to give my dad cart blanche whatever he wanted because if I didn't I felt like I would lose him too. That he would reject and have nothing to do with me if I didn't  practically ostracize my mother. My mother was at one point my best friend and that's gone. I couldn't stand losing BOTH my parents. So dad  has gotten whatever he wanted. And I'm realizing that in a subtle way, Dad has been manipulating my brother and I to treat our mother terribly  for years to punish her. My dad has always been a super passive aggressive guy. It's nothing new. He's always guilt tripped people and  made these little comments that twist people up and hurt them. It's his  form of control.

I love both my parents. My mother did a terrible horrible thing but my dad is no saint either. My mom was just more upfront about her awfulness.

My therapist and Steve also pointed out that if my dad IS truly depressed or emotionally damaged etc. he has never sought to get help for it. Instead he has projected his problems and pain onto everyone else and  made it their burden instead of taking responsibility for himself and attempting to go on with life and that is not ok.

I called my mom and asked her over for tea. Steve left to give us privacy. I could list everything we said and talked about but it would make the post longer. Basically my mom never loved my dad and should never have  agreed to marry him. My dad knew mom didn't love him but didn't care and  insisted she would love him eventually. Some very eye opening things  were said that made sense.

My mother never trash talked my dad (never has) but she gave insights as to  why the affair happened. She says she understands it's no excuse for what she did and she is so very sorry for her own selfishness and weakness.

Basically both my parents are human and mistakes were made from both sides. My mom had the affair yes, but it's not like my dad was the perfect man either.

While I still will never again be close to my mom perhaps I don't need to be  quite as harsh with her as I have been. We will still be low contact but  I did decided I DO want her there for the wedding and for the birth of  any children I have, etc. I love my mom. Always have and always will. She may not have been a good wife but she WAS an excellent mother and I  don't want to cut her out completely. I think my kids lives will be more enriched having her in it.

My mother started crying when I told her she was invited to the wedding  (even though I made it clear to her her boyfriend is not invited. She didn't argue with me on that at all) and said she thought I had asked  her to my house to tell her I would NOT be inviting her and she had been  prepared to accept that rejection and understand it. I did tell her that if dad was there she was to stay away from him and not try to mend  any fences at my wedding. She says she understands completely and will  mingle with my grandparents (her parents) and my aunts, uncles and  cousins (her siblings and their children). I made it clear to my mother  that if she even attempted to talk to dad or any of his family she would  be thrown out. She agreed without question.

Steve and I had a final sit down before I called my dad. I asked him to please give me his honest opinion. Steve relented and said while he  thought my mother had done the inexcusable, she actually seemed remorseful and willing to accept the consequences of her actions and to move on and that my dad, while a nice guy, came off as way too sensitive  and just weak. He said that my dad didn't cheat but he had caused me a lot of pain and anxiety since the divorce and it made him very angry and  it was getting hard to like or tolerate my dad and that his family felt the same way, that my dad was actually a master bully in disguise as a  super nice guy.

I called my dad and asked to come over and that I needed to talk about something. I sat him down in his living room (so this talk was in his space where he  could retreat if he needed to) and said basically "Dad. I love you so so  much. You mean the world to me. But after the fiasco of my graduation  I've come to realize I have had enough of feeling like I have to pick sides for you and mom. I'm sorry what happened Dad. I really am. But  that was 5 years ago. You lost a wife, but I didn't lose a mom. I'm sure  you don't mean to, but you've been making me feel like I can't be close  with you if I want to have any kind of relationship with mom.If it's still impossible to even be in the room with her dad, then maybe you  need to talk to someone so you can start feeling better and not be in so  much pain. Is there some kind of abuse that happened that you're not  telling me about that makes this impossible?"

My  dad seemed shocked and then started to get REALLY upset and basically said mom had never hit him or anything but that "she cheated and broke  his heart and that was reason enough to cut her out"

Dad also said I couldn't understand because I hadn't been cheated on, I didn't know what real love was and also implied it was MY fault and my brothers fault because "if we weren't a part of their relationship he  could move on" but we always remind him of her and what they had, how because of us he can't make a clean break since she's in our lives etc.

I'm  sure many redditors will disagree but this is my dad being typically  passive. Insinuating that because my brother and I exist he can't get  better because we are reminders of mother and it's our fault we exist so he can't cut her out totally. I realize that my dad thinks that if he can get me and my brother to cut my mom out, not only will he succeed in  punishing her but he can have us all to himself and not have to share  with her and deal with his hurt. He's getting us to do the dirty work  for him so he doesn't have to take responsibility.

I told my dad that I loved him and wanted him at the wedding but Mother is invited. Her boyfriend isn't but she is. I told dad that I had talked  to her and I promised him she would leave him alone and stay away from  him and his family and could he not just put aside differences for a few  hours to celebrate with me and Steve on our day?

He said absolutely not and that I was being unfair and insensitive and  that my mom had poisoned me against him. That he wasn't the cheat and  she needed to deal with what she had done and not come and by inviting her I was clearly supporting her cheating and that we couldn't be close  if that was the case because I was being too much like her.

I  had had enough. I stood up and said, "Dad, Steve and I really want you there. You are free to come or not. I love you. But if you don't come, it will absolutely affect our relationship going forward. I am not doing  anymore separate celebrations or events. People can either come or stay  home for weddings, parties, births and whatever. It's getting ridiculous and I'm sick of being in the middle. The rest is up to you and Mom."

Then I left. I haven't heard from my dad since. That's been hard, but I feel like I did the right thing.

I also called my brother and told him everything that happened. My brother was very quiet. He then said while he still hates our mom for  what she did and thinks she's a whore that maybe there is more to this  than he realized and that he thinks our dad is being a selfish jerk and  needs to get over himself. He said it's fine mom is coming to the wedding and that he would be nice to her.

So  that's that. I'm sure many will disagree and be angry with me but Steve and I feel we made the right call. Steve loves and supports me and that's all that matters. I talked to my therapist about it and she said it's possible I was harsh but that maybe my dad needed to hear that  since he has been coddled and enabled for five years.

I am fully prepared for my dad to not show up. If he doesn't it's his loss. Thanks again to everyone who gave me input, some of your comments  were very eye opening. I may post an update in the future after the  wedding but I haven't decided yet.

TL;DR  Broke down and went to therapy. Realized my dad is very passive  aggressive and manipulative. My graduation day was horrible but a  catalyst to realize things can't continue this way and I'm tired of  being in the middle. Had a heart to heart with mom, realized my parents  relationship is not a case of saint vs. sinner but two people who are  human and made mistakes. Told mom she's invited but boyfriend is not and  she will be asked to leave if she approaches my dad or any of his  family. Talked to dad and told him he's hurting me with his behavior and  it needs to stop. My dad is not speaking to me and there's a good chance he will boycott the wedding. Talked to brother and he supports me  and says dad is being unfair. I'm just happy I get to marry Steve and  that I don't have to be stuck in bullshit drama anymore.

EDIT:  wow this blew up! Thank you everyone who commented and offered a POV. Except for the people sending PM's of death threats. I've gotten at  least half a dozen of those, plus calling me a whore (ironic since I'm a  virgin) and hoping Steve cheats. You sound like lovely warm people full  of happiness.

I wanted to point out some things that keep coming up:

1. Remember I come from a religion and culture that is very different from most  people here. Divorce is shameful for us. It is humiliating. The only justifiable reason for divorce is an affair for our people. Divorce "because you're not happy" is not an excusable reason. An affair is the only way out. However, that being said, the person who commits the affair has just crippled themselves. Sex is very holy and pure in our  religion and culture. It is to be between husband and wife only. That's it. And if you break up a marriage because of it you are forever blacklisted. While my mother could/should have gotten a divorce without  having an affair, she STILL would have had a scarlet letter on her chest  for getting divorced for "no reason" which is an ultimate act of selfishness. Marriage is very holy in our culture. To divorce for any  reason other than an affair is "to be like an unbelieving sinner" which is, quite simply, not acceptable. I don't necessarily agree with this as I'm a little more liberal than the rest of my family and most people  but it is what it is

2. My  mother did NOT get off Scott free. She is no longer welcome in her church and none of her friends associate with her anymore. Her family, her friends, her church, her entire community has shunned her. She also  lost her job because dipping your pen in company ink is expressly  frowned upon at her former work place. Both she and her lover lost their jobs and had to find new ones

3. Many are saying I need to start including my moms partner in things and saying the fact she has been with him this whole time shows they have  something special. It actually does not. I didn't put this in my post  but my mom and I actually talked about her boyfriend for the first time.  They are on the verge of breaking up and their relationship has been  rocky for awhile. "P"'s family and friends have disowned him too. He is not of our religion or culture (double bogus for my mom for taking a  lover outside the faith) but no one wants anything to do with P. His ex wife has made their lives hell and will not let him see his kids. When he does see them they treat my mother terribly and make their hatred  known. P is also sick of being not invited to every family event on our side and says Mom needs to start demanding he be invited to things. Mom  is of the view point that they brought misery on themselves and need to accept the consequences of their actions and furthermore knows that if  she insisted on bringing P she would burn the last of the bridges she  has with us and will not do that. P is sick of her "not putting him first" and their relationship is falling apart because of it. The only  reason they have lasted this long is because my mom and P only have each  other because no one else wants them. And they both know it. My mom  actually does love her boyfriend but he does not love her anymore and  she knows they aren't going to make it

4. Many  are saying (even explicitly hoping) Steve cheats on me so I understand  my dads pain because I clearly don't since I haven't been cheated on  (hey that's what my dad said!). This experience has actually taught me the opposite. If Steve were to cheat I would be out of my mind with pain  and hurt. I wouldn't be able to function. I don't blame my dad for being unable to be around my mother. At first. If I had children with  Steve, as much as it would SUCK, I would put on my big girl pants and do what needed to be done for my kids. I've gotten plenty of comments and  PM's from people who WERE cheated on and heartbroken and  devastated...and they did what needed to be done. Since I now know what  it's like to have parents that pick their pain over their kids I know I  would NEVER want to put my kids through that. It's just basic human  decency.

5. I  am not on any parents side. I don't love either of my parents more nor do I think either should be demonized and bashed or out on a pedestal and coddled.My parents are human and imperfect. They are both great  people. And they both have done some really shitty things. That's it and  that's all

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/Due-Kale3735

Originally posted to r/AITAH

Previous BoRUs: #1

[Old New Update/Tangential]: AITA for telling my ex that she needs to "figure it out" when it comes to hosting people for her grandmothers' funeral even though I am living in her "grandmothers' house?"

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Editor's note: removed older relevant comments for space in this latest BoRU

Thanks to u/Bonanza86 for letting me know about the latest update!

Trigger Warnings: ugly divorce, entitlement, manipulation

----

RECAP

Editor's note: I am including OOP’s first post made prior to the original post for more context in order to understand the current situation

AITA for refusing to pay for daycare for my son with my ex?: September 12, 2025

AITA for refusing to pay for daycare for my son with my ex?

This is a throwaway account.

I have a 2, almost 3-year-old son with my ex. He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. Almost a year ago, I filed for divorce from my ex. We have split custody (50/50). As child support, I pay $900/month plus 100% of all healthcare and education-related costs for our son.

My ex was at home with our son until he was about 10 months old. At that time, she wanted to go to grad school, so we had planned to put our son in daycare. My mom (whom my siblings and I had been supporting) asked if she could watch our son rather than putting him in daycare. My ex was giddy at the idea, but I was a little hesitant because I wanted my mom to enjoy her retirement. But my mom and my ex very much wanted to do it, so I relented. Plus, my son absolutely loves every moment he gets to spend with his "Mimi." My mom has continued to be the primary caretaker of our son when my ex and I are working.

My ex (whom I mostly co-parent with well) wants our son to go to daycare. But my ex cannot afford daycare at all, so she wants me to pay for it. I refuse. Our son still absolutely loves going to his Mimi's house. My siblings have kids that our mom looks after, and so my son gets a lot of time with his cousins. My mom still loves doing it. Plus, she was an educator and is bilingual and is doing an amazing job in that department as well. I check-in with her to make sure she still wants to do it because I do not want her to be overwhelmed. Plus, the daycare here would cost about $250-$300/week. So, I refuse. My ex says this setup makes "my family" have undue influence over our son's development. If that was a concern, she has never expressed that until now. Plus, why would our son being under the influence of strangers at daycare be better? This has been a point of contention for about the last month.

AITA?

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received mixed reactions of NTAs, YTAs, and NAHs, mostly leaning towards NTA

 

Editor's note: below is the original title post of this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: death of a loved one

Original Post: December 30, 2025 (3.5 months later)

My ex and I got divorced earlier this year. When we were married, we bought her grandmothers' house. This house was built in the 1910s and had been in my ex's family since then. It is quite large. It was de-facto the house where my ex's family would stay when they came into town for anything (this continued into our purchase of the house and was a part of my decision to divorce her).

When we bought it, we primarily used my pre-martial savings and inheritance. That was five-ish years ago. When we got divorced, the court determined that the bulk of the house (90%) belonged to me in accordance with our postnup agreement. My ex tried a number of scenarios where she would keep the house (or it would go into a trust for our kid) so it would stay "in the family." The only thing I would agree to is selling the house, her buying me out, or me buying her out. We went with the latter because my ex did not have the money to buy me out.

The day after Christmas, my ex's grandmother died. She had been sick for years and the reason we bought the house is because she could no longer live on her own and desperately needed money for end of life care. Anyway, yesterday afternoon, my ex's cousin shows up at the house with his family. He drove into town for the funeral on Thursday. Apparently, he and his sister texted my ex and said that they would be staying at "the house" (insider family term for my house) and she indicated she was ok with that.

I called my ex and asked her why she volunteered my house for hosting people. She apologized and said she had been running around getting things done for the funeral. But, she asked if I would be willing to host because they really do not have space for people without using the house. I told her "no" and that they need to get hotels or whatever else arrangements. She said they do not have money to get everyone hotels and people are struggling financially. That there is plenty of extra room in the house. They could just be in the finished basement with their own bathroom, kitchen, entry, and exit. I told her "no." She got quite upset and hung up on me. I told the cousin and his family that they cannot stay.

AITA?

Edit: (1) People seem to be assuming the house was discounted to us when we bought it. It was not. It had been on the market for a year, and the price had been decreased multiple times with no offers for the listed price at any point. We bought it for the initial price it was listed for (which was the appraisal price).

(2) My personal preference was that my ex buy me out of the house. She did not have the money to do so. My next preference was to sell the house. My ex begged me to keep the house. So, I agreed to do so.

(3) The trust idea she had would mean putting the house in a trust with a life estate to me and the remainder to my son. This would effectively prohibit me from selling the house. I have no intentions of selling now, but I refuse to put myself in a position where I cannot sell in the future if I decide I need to do so. But, I do have a trust for my son now (3 years old) where he will inherit my assets at the time I die.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received mixed reactions of all kinds, but mostly leaning toward NTAs

Editor's note: OOP had given lots of answers, I am listing the common questions asked and his responses

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: I am baffled as to why on earth your ex signed a post nup that would endanger the family home.

OOP: It is the only way I would agree to purchase the house. Otherwise, her parents were selling it to the highest bidder because her grandmother needed the money.

Downvoted Commenter: 1) why did you insist on paying the non-reduced price for the house? 2) you couldn’t have worked out a payment plan with a contract so your wife could eventually buy you out?

Those two things tell me this is either fake or you’re insufferable.

Yes, legally it is your house. That doesn’t mean the way you’ve been acting isn’t asshole territory. Reddit loves to conflate those two things.

OOP: 1) The family needed the money to pay for her end of life care and they listed it at its appraisal value.

2) I put $820,000 in the house and she makes $45,000/year. There is no situation where she can pay me off (even with no interest & not factoring in appreciation in value) in less than 20 years.

OOP explains the reason for keeping the house

OOP: We bought the house because she insisted. And the only reason I kept the house was a favor to her. I would have much preferred she bought me out of the house. I even researched loan options for her to see if she could buy me out. There were no good terms for her which is why I bought her out.

OOP responds to a downvoted comment asking why he hates his ex, based on the first post he made

OOP: Why we got divorced is immaterial as far as I am concerned here. But, if you want to know: (1) she went back on numerous promises throughout our marriage (including, that this would stop being treated like the family home when I spent the bulk of my savings to buy it for us), (2) we both came into the relationship as agnostic/atheist and that are kids would be raised non-religious, but got our son baptized anyways, (3) hid money issues she was having from me, and (4) the straw that broke the camel’s back, hid her sister's affair from my BIL (the only in-law that treated me well at all).

OOP provides more details about his family's and his ex's backgrounds while they were growing up

OOP: My dude, I am the son of two Haitian immigrants. When they got married, neither one had attended college. My dad drove trucks and my mom was a nanny for rich families. My mom eventually got a degree in early childhood education. My dad never got a degree.

My parents saved and never went into debt for anything. I grew up in a two bedroom, one bathroom house and was the youngest of three. I grew up with two amazing parents. So, quite wealthy in that respect. But, money wise? No, not really. They simply refused to incur debt for anything, lived off of 70% of their take home money, and that is how when my dad died, and my mom sold all of his businesses, she was able to give each kid about a $1,000,000. But, that is after about 45 years of living very frugally and having no debt.

Also, she has family with resources to buy the house. She has a godfather who is President of one of the largest banks in our state. She had options to explore to buy.

+

Not rich or privileged. My parents are Haitian immigrants who refused to go into debt for anything, refused to spend more than 70% of their take home income, and saved/invested the rest. I grew up in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom home in a neighborhood where most of my neighborhood friend's families were on food stamps.

My ex grew up in a 4-bedroom house where she had her own room.

She has family members out of state who could have easily bought the home. She has a godfather who is President of the largest "local" bank in our state. He could have bought the home (or lend her money to buy it from me). My ex's family, if they pooled their money, could buy the house. Instead, there was alot of fighting among the family about the house until we bought it.

I did not screw them out of the home. I rather not have this home. My preference was that she buy me out or we sell it. She could not buy me out and she did not want to sell it. But, after this experience, it might just be time to just sell it and be done with it.

OOP on not being invited to his ex's grandma's funeral and the ex expecting him to entertain her family

OOP: I am not invited. You know my ex ok-ed people to stay at my house without checking with me at all, right? Like, not calling or texting whatsoever. Why would you think, it would be a faux pas in her mind to invite them to stay if I am not invited to the funeral? My ex does not care at all about decorum here.

You would think no one is dumb enough to invite family to stay with their ex for at least four nights without checking with their ex, but that is what happened and why I made this post. There is nothing logical about anything my ex did here.

But, you are free to believe what you want and ignore inconvenient facts. There is a lot of that going around.

Commenter 2: I’m saying that in a shared property state, a judge doesn’t just grant a post nup awarding all marital assets to one spouse. This guy sounds bitter and spiteful

OOP: The house was not a marital asset. I used pre-martial assets (pre-marital savings & inheritance) to buy, renovate, pay taxes, & pay HOA fees for the home throughout the marriage. In the post-nuptial agreement, I granted her 10% of the home, but I paid for 100% of it with premarital assets. The post-nup also clarified it was not a marital asset.

The court did award her half of the marital assets (checking account, savings, mutual fund), I also gave her a car that I bought pre-marriage, but she had driven throughout the marriage. I was ordered to pay her $12.000 in alimony ($500/month in alimony for 2 years). I paid her the full $12,000 upfront. She also received the 10% of the home.

All in all, she walked away with over $100,000 in cash, (roughly around $130K), along with household goods and a car.

Commenter 3: Info - why did hosting family contribute to the divorce? Also was she a SAHM?

OOP: Her family would show up whenever/however they wanted, generally would make a mess, and generally were rude/mean to me. Because of this, when we bought the house, one of my conditions was that it would be treated like our home rather than the family house.

We have a 3 year old son. While we were married (before our son was conceived or born), she was going to school and working part-time. I paid all expenses. After our son was born, she continued to go to school and work part-time. I continued to pay all expenses. We waited until he was 10 months old until he started going full-time to my mom's house. My son was born October 2022. At that time, my ex was finishing out a 2nd undergraduate degree with a graduation in May 2022. My ex finished the degree in May 2022. During my son's first 10 months, if my ex had class, had to work, etc., either I would be home with our son, my mom would watch him, or we would get a babysitter.

 

Update: January 21, 2026 (a bit over three weeks later)

UPDATE: A number of people have asked for an update. Not much has happened until a few days ago. On Saturday, one of my ex's cousins (not the one who showed up at my door) (we will call him, "Dave") texted me.

As you probably guessed from my original post, I do not have the best relationship with my ex's family. This was true while we were together. However, I did have a good rapport with this particular cousin.

Apparently, my ex and a number of the other family members had been talking bad about me in the family group chat. Dave reached out to get my side of things, but understood if I did not want to talk. I called him and relayed much of what I said in my original post and comments to him. What I learned from my conversation with Dave is:

1) My ex told her family, after the divorce, that she still co-owned the house with me.

2) That I do not abide by the court's order regarding expenses for our son and that she cannot afford a lawyer to fight me on it.

I set the record straight for him on both accounts. I own 100% of the house and bought her out of her 10% share. I also pay 100% of the medical costs and childcare/education costs for our son as ordered by the court. I also pay more than the court-ordered amount for child support. We talked a little bit more to catch up and I thought nothing of it. Apparently Dave decided to share the details of our conversation in the family group chat.

On Monday, I got an angry long text from my ex about what Dave said in the group chat and that she wanted to talk. We talked yesterday. She expressed how frustrated she is with everything. That she was (and still is) willing to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work. She said if I am not willing to try and make it work, the least I could do is work with her so she can pay me off overtime for the house, put the house in a trust for our son so it stays in the family, and not "bad mouth" her to her family.

I reiterated that there are no circumstances under which I would want to be with her. The least of which is that she is actively lying about me and our divorce to her family. I also restated that I will not let her pay me off for the house because it will take her decades to even pay me back for how much money I have put into the house even if there was no interest. I will not put it in a trust because the type of trust she wants is specifically designed to prevent me from selling the house in the future if I need to do so. I also stated that I did not ask Dave to share any of our conversation and everything I said to him was 100% factual.

I told her moving forward, I am doing no more than what I am legally obligated to do for her. I will only pay the child support amount that is legally required and not a cent more. I will put the extra I was paying towards the money I was already setting aside for our son. If she wants to buy the house, she can at fair market value. But, I will sell the house if, or when, I feel it is appropriate for myself and our son regardless of what her or her family want. If, or when, I sell it I will get the highest price possible regardless of whether that person is part of my ex's family. And if her family keep being a problem about the house, it will probably be sooner rather than later. She left mad, but that is where things stand.

Relevant / Top Comments

Commenter 1: Wow I can’t believe she signed a postnuptial that only gave her 10%. Was it time/conditioned based? Did you both have separate lawyers look it over? How long were you married? So many questions! Did she work? Did all her family take Dave’s version over hers?

OOP: She put up none of her own money to pay for the house. Yes, we had separate lawyers. Not time or conditioned based. We were married almost 6 years. She worked part time and went to school (which I paid for). I have no idea what version the family believed.

Commenter 2: Nothing says “I’m an AH” like having a post nup. You’re not legally wrong about anything but dude, come on. You took her family’s house out from under her. That’s your kid’s family. How do you sleep at night? So gross. YTA.

OOP: How did I take the house from under her? I bought it with my money, renovated it how she wanted, gifted her 10% of the house despite her not paying for any of it with her money, and offered her to buy me out of it. I only still how the house because she asked me to keep it.

If I had not used my inheritance, strangers would be living in this house not her family.

Commenter 3: Good for you. This was a nice update. I hope she felt embarrassed having her lies called out in the group chat like that.

Commenter 4: I really don't understand people like your ex. What was the point of lying about the house to her family? Was she hoping by some unicorn miracle she will wake up one day and her lies would come true and suddenly the house is hers?

 

---

----OLD NEW UPDATE----

Editor's note: the tangential post is over two months old, and it has not been posted here onto the sub. The ex mentioned in the post is OOP's ex and the mother of his son

AITAH for not allowing my ex to stay at my house while I am out of town with our son when her air conditioning is broke at her place?: August 17, 2026 (seven months later)

I am going to keep this short. I am going on a 10-day trip with my son starting tomorrow. I have FWB (who has not met my son and my ex is not aware of) who will be house sitting and watching my dog while I am gone.

My ex lives with her mom. The A/C at her house has been out intermittently throughout the summer. It is out again. Since I will be out of town, my ex asked if she could stay at my house and offered to watch my dog. I told her "No, I have made arrangements for the dog." She asked if she could stay at the house by herself. I told her, "No." My ex and I do not get along for a myriad of reasons and I rather not have her stay in the house (you can see my previous posts about our relationship if interested). But biggest reason I do not want her to stay is my FWB.

I told my FWB about the situation (in case my ex tries to come by). She said she would be "ok" staying at the house with my ex. She said there is plenty of room. I told her that it could become contentious and I rather not do it. She understood but is willing to accommodate whatever I feel comfortable doing.

AITAH for not letting my ex stay at my house?

Relevant / Top Comments

Commenter 1: NTA If you guys have a rocky past, I think it’s very entitled and a little suspicious that she wants to stay at your house. That is not a normal thing to ask or expect. I highly doubt she would reciprocate if she were in the position to do so; so why would she expect you to do it?

A privilege like that needs to be earned via some basic respect and trust. I also wouldn’t trust that she wouldn’t bring her mother along with her. I find it interesting. She’s willing to abandon her mother without air-conditioning but not herself? If her mother can live in it, so can she. Edited to include verdict

OOP: Her mom is not staying at the house either just to be clear. Basically, both have been staying with various friends when the A/C has been out. But, your overall point stands.

Downvoted Commenter: No obligation to say yes, I’m sure your reasons are solid. But for the sake of being a great example to your child and current partner and wanting to have a future peaceful time of co parenting you could offer to help her pay for hotel, Airbnb, etc. or another kind gesture to show kindness while she’s dealing with no A/C.

OOP: She got over a $130K in cash in the divorce. She should not be hurting for cash.

Downvoted Commenter: Oh, I’m sure you don’t owe her anything I’m just suggesting you do it anyway, and be the bigger person and take the high road. Always better to treat a situation with more kindness than they deserve.

OOP: I mean, I do not really consider that kindness. You are asking me to spend likely $100s of dollars for someone who can easily afford the expense. Typically, if I am doing that for someone, it is almost always a romantic interest. That is not the behavior of a purely platonic relationship with someone.

Commenter 2: NTA. It is not your responsibility to provide housing for your ex. However, it’s important to try your best to have a good relationship with your child’s other parent. As that is what is best for your child.

Are you in a position financially to help them get the A/C fixed? Could the FWB go back to their own home so your ex can stay there instead? It’s interesting that the FWBs solution was for them BOTH to stay there.

OOP: My FWB loves my dog and wants to be with him. But, he is not allowed at her apartment.

Commenter 3: Surely the ex has other friends she can stay with. So, no. You do not owe anyone use of your house.

Commenter 4: NTA. I highly suspect ex is also thinking it'd be fun to snoop through OP's house while he's gone for 10 days. I could be wrong but....

 

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

when Satan’s intern comes to stay

Originally posted to Ask A Manager

Original Post  July 24, 2011

I work in a field that’s big on mentoring — at one point or another, everyone in my field had to intern. In fact, the program I graduated from requires a 6-week internship in the final year. I had some great experiences that really helped shape my career as an intern, so now that I’m doing well and am in a position to pay it forward, I did. After giving a skype-talk to students at the university I graduated from, I was contacted by one of them asking to intern with me. She was quite aggressive and had a lengthy portfolio and resume, as well as good references from people I trust at the university, so I agreed.

I’m based overseas, and I explained to her multiple times that while she’s welcome to come, my company was not able to cover her travel or living costs while here, nor were we able to pay her for the internship (this isn’t uncommon — most internships in my field are unpaid). I said this to her verbally as well as in writing, and my manager repeated this information as well.

I work from home, so in the interest of giving her the best experience, we worked out that she’d be based with me for the first half, then go with me to the main office in another city, where she’d finish the internship. At some point in the lead up to this, she asked if she could stay at my house while she was job shadowing me, and somehow, in a fit of wanting to help her out, I agreed.

Once she arrived, it quickly went downhill. I discovered that not only had she not booked any sort of hotel in the other city she’d be staying in, but she hadn’t even researched costs in that city — and it’s pricey, and lacking in hostels or other cheap, safe ammenities. While, during work hours, she was flipping out about this, I gave her a couple of possible solutions and reassured her as much as I could, and came up with a solution that I’d actually used when I first moved overseas to that city.

I gave her a few tasks, and was generally unimpressed — it took her far longer than it should, and she didn’t even bother to spellcheck her work before submitting it to me. But I thought “ok, she’s young and it’s her first day.” I also looked the other way when she asked me or my flatmates repeatedly about the “party” scene in our city and seemed more interested in going out and meeting guys than, you know, working. Her first day, I cited first-day jitters and jet lag for the weird behavior. But over the next two days it plummeted even more. Not only was she not performing (to the point I had to basically spoon feed her every tiny task, and was told by my flatmate that, while I was out on work meetings, she’d come back home for lunch at noon to find the intern. . . still asleep), but I had several panicked phone calls from the university — turns out the intern was sending back emails to them basically freaking out that she couldn’t afford this internship, and it was my, my company, and the university’s responsibility to make sure she could. Emails she’d also sent to my boss.

Meanwhile, two days away from home and she was sobbing and crying in my living room . . . The final straw, however, was when one of her friends back home started tweeting about how dare my company not pay our interns and expect them to shell out x amounts for the pleasure of being our slaves, how dare I, personally, treat her this way, and what a horrible horrible company and organization we were to do this to the poor girl. . . tagging both myself, the university, and my company. We’re a media company, so our Twitter feeds are actually part of our online brand and we have thousands of followers. Who all got to see this vitriol. Including my boss’s boss, when our web guy, confused as to what this was, alerted other managers to it, trying to find the culprit so we could get the posts deleted. When both I and the school contacted the intern, she didn’t seem to see why this behavior was such a big deal — and she declined to get her friend to remove the posts.

We had no choice; we had to fire her. I felt horrible about it, and she left … taking with her work she hadn’t completed, as well as my spare phone I’d lent her for her stay. And for the next two weeks more posts went up from her and her friend, tagging my company, about how horrible we all were, how unprofessional, and how I should be fired.

Fast forward several weeks and she’s back home, trying to find another internship (she needs the credit to graduate, and while if she had completed the projects I’d given her I would have counted the week she was with, since she finished barely half a day’s work in total with me, I just couldn’t), as well as get a job post-graduation. And since her blog and online portfolio which she’s sending out still says she’s going to be interning with my company, and my field back home is fairly small, I’ve gotten a few calls.

My questions are: what responsibility do I have to this girl and her new employers? It’s possible she just freaked out completely — people at the university say this behavior was out of character for her — how much tale-telling am I allowed or obligated to do? I am totally disgusted with her behavior and her friend’s behavior, who both seem to have come out of this feeling self righteous and put upon. I’m 26, I’m on facebook, twitter, etc and I’m careful about it. . . but these kids, barely younger than me, seem to think they can do or say anything they want, and that offends me. Moreover, they have both damaged my credibility with my company — not only did they behave badly on my watch, but they tarnished the reputation of the institution my degree comes from. What can I do to repair that? And is there anything I can do to make sure these two children don’t do this again to someone else? I wasn’t fired — although if I had written those tweets I could have been — but the next person might not be so lucky. Finally, as someone whose name and reputation is crucial to my field, it’s now still sitting out there in cyberland that I’m some sort of horrible unprofessional ogre. What can I do?

Update  Dec 14, 2011 (5 Months Later)

Alas, there’s no heartwarming tale of redemption here. She never called me to apologize and tearfully profess how much she’d learned from the experience, there was no metaphorical hug-and-share-and-love-and-grow moment. Professionally I know that can’t be expected. this isn’t a Sweet Valley High book, even if she did behave like a teenage.

What did happen: after we fired her, she absconded back home, taking with her my spare phone I might add, as well as never turning in the last few assignements she had assured me she had finished. My first week in my main head office was a little rough: I was nervous people were going to hold her behaviour against me. Thankfully, they were mostly just baffled. i took the advice of your readers and either didn’t bring it up, or addressed it directly with my boss and my web guy head on privately. They were incredibly cool and sympathetic about it. I later found out through the office grapevine that my boss, who is based in the main office and only sees me in person once or twice a month, had railed against the intern privately to some coworkers at after work drinks one night, along the lines of how dare she do this to me, after everything I’ve done for her. So it turned out he actually had my back pretty well, and it’s all settled fairly nicely. I’ve also been in touch with the school, and after our last conversation about this, the head of the internship program (who incidentally was one of my professors while I was at school) said as an aside how ‘impressed she was with how professionally and reasonably I handled this.” So, as some of your ever-helpful readers speculated, I may have even increased my own reputation by not melting down over this.

As for the intern herself, I did keep a few tabs on her after she left. The tweets eventually stopped. After speaking with my boss and HR, they thought it would be less confrontational if I approached the Twitter Fiend Friend directly, to ask her to remove the tweets. She’s also an alum from my university, so I think the thinking was that would be casual and have it all stop with a minimum of drama. Her response was acres of vitriol, demanding to know what had happened and why the intern was ‘really’ fired before she’d even consider removing her posts (I informed her that that sort of thing was confidential between the intern adn the company, and ended that email chain). She was in dragon slaying mode for a long time though, and I still occassionally get tagged in posts from her, usually when she’s in an Occupy Wall Street mode and I apparently become the empodiment of the entitled ‘man’ keeping she and her special little snowflake friends ‘down’. I mostly try to laugh at these now, as she doesn’t seem to realize I’m no where near the age, affluence etc of this evil corporate figurehead she seems to want to battle. She is deeply involved in the whole no-more-unpaid-internship movements and I’m told by friends that I’ve even been referenced in a megaphone speech at a rally as a symbol of what will eventually destroy our industry. And that people like me should take our bloated salaries and bonus’ and use those to pay our slaves (um, what bonus? Has she looked at salary expectations in our fields? Anemic, not bloated. I’m lucky I can afford cheese). I’ve heard she’s since had a hard time finding full-time employment: my guess? She comes off a little too radical, hard to work with, etc, which is clear the minute you google her and see her blog and twitter accounts. And trust me, people in my field are googling.

As for the Intern herself. . .My company’s name still appears on the online portfolio she is sending to employers. She never removed it, and the way it has it phrased makes it sound like she completed the entire internship with us. Soon after all of this went down, I was having a conversation with a friend back home about it. I didn’t use names, just called her the Evil Intern, adn in the middle she stopped me and said ‘wait, is this so and so?’ Turns out Intern had pulled similar all sizzle and no steak drama at my friend’s workplace the summer before, but since that wasn’t an internship set up by the school, no one ever knew about it. As my friend told it, Intern swooped in and pushed her way into the centre, taking on projects and pitching ideas and claiming she’d do all this amazing stuff. . . and then never delivered in person. Then one day she just stopped turning up at all.

Soon enough, another friend approached me because she had been contacted by the school to have Intern finish her six weeks with her company. The school had briefly told her that Intern hadn’t worked out with me, and my friend wanted to find out why. I told her as diplomatically as I could, just the facts, keeping out the emotion, but Intern didn’t get that posting either. I eventually found out she got one in another city, and through aquaintences found she scraped by there. She finished the program, however I’ve been told by profs at the school who I keep in touch with that several of them turned her down when she approached them to be references: which is crucial coming out of school, as professors are often the only industry-related recommendations you have. She’s since gotten a job, not in our field, but in one of those periphery-to-it type jobs, where she’s ironically enough in charge of their website and social media.

As for me, in the almost-year since this went down, I’ve been promoted :) SO I guess this didn’t ruin my reputation as much as I’d feared!

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/ExpertHoeee

Originally posted to r/AITH

AITH for refusing to help my husband hide his own child from our family, again?

Trigger Warnings: child abandonment/deadbeat parent, emotional abuse

---

Original Post: September 26, 2026

Hey, a few years ago we received a random message out of nowhere from a 19 year old named Julian saying he thinks he's my husband's son. Before we even got married, my husband told me he'd gotten a girl pregnant when he was like 19 and that she'd chosen adoption, so honestly a part of me always figured a day like this might come. Except turns out that whole story was a lie. There was no adoption at all he just left her to raise Julian completely alone while he moved on and never looked back. And here's the part that actually broke something in me: when Julian was 13 he found my husband on Facebook and begged him for just one meeting, and my husband's reply (which I only found by accident scrolling an old messenger backup, months later) was genuinely one of the coldest things I've ever read, blaming a literal 13 year old for "trying to ruin his life" and telling him to never message again.

So not only had my husband been lying to me our entire relationship, he'd had real contact with his own son and chose, AGAIN, to throw him away, this time while we were already married with kids of our own. It's honestly been a lot, so much therapy, individually and as a couple, and for the last two-ish years we've quietly been rebuilding something with Julian, completely hidden from our kids. Now that Julian's older everyone wants an actual family meeting, which I was fully on board with, until I found out my husband and his mother had already decided, without me, that the "easiest" move is to tell our kids and everyone else that Julian is just "a family friend's son." Not his brother. Not family. A stranger we know. Hard pass.

I don't care one bit what Julian and my husband privately call each other, that's their business, but I flat out refuse to lie to my own children about who their brother actually is. My husband says I'm choosing drama over keeping the peace, and his mom actually said the lie is more for HIS reputation than for Julian's feelings, which exactly, thank you for proving my point. Even Julian seems hurt by the whole "friend" plan, like he's literally being hidden again after everything, and I definitely don't blame him. So now apparently I'm the villain for saying it's the truth or nothing. AITAH please?

Relevant / Top Comments

Commenter 1: NTA I don't know how you can trust this man to be the person who is there for you when something goes wrong with you or your children. Will he call Mommy when you or the kids end up in the hospital? Your husband is a coward who runs away. I think you should run away from him and set up a meeting between your kids and their half-brother so they can meet.

OOP: I've had that same 3am worry myself. He says he was a scared kid back then and he's different now, but yeah, actions from years ago don’t just get erased. I'm not at the "leave him" stage over one reddit thread lol, we've got two kids and a whole life together. But the meeting? Pretty sure that's happening regardless of what he decides. My kids deserve to know their brother exists.

Commenter 2: Poor Julian. It seems like you, his stepmom, are the only one with his best interest at heart. Your husband is absolutely disgusting

OOP: He's been let down by adults his whole life and I refuse to be another one. I don’t think my husband is disgusting as a person, just that one choice honestly disgusts me if that makes sense, he's a great dad to our actual kids which almost makes this harder to sit with. But someone has to put Julian first for once, so I guess that’s me right now.

Commenter 3: This breaks my heart. My "father" abandoned us when I was just a tot. Left and didn't call or anything. Met him as an adult. Formed a relationship with him and his wife and step-kids. Was never treated as an equal. Me and my siblings were always treated like second hand citizens. Something in me will always be broken. Your husband is a POS.

OOP: This one hit hard, I'm really sorry that happened to you, no kid should ever have to feel like a second class citizen in their own family growing up. Comments like this are exactly why I refuse to let Julian get brushed off as "just a friend," I don’t want him ever feeling like he has to earn a spot that should already be his. Thank you for sharing that, it really means a lot.

Commenter 4: NTA but your husband is a huge one. A deceitful, dishonourable, cruel one. He want some scared little boy, he was an adult who abandoned his responsibilities without a second thought, and what Julian reappeared instead of facing the music, he responded with cruelty and abuse, to a child. HIS child. I do wonder if you're currently rather absorbed with Julian that you're not properly registering this man has told you possibly one of the most grotesque lies your entire relationship? How will he treat your children if they do something he thinks is wrong or beneath them (or him)? Will he respond with cruelty and abuse he did to Julian? And on top of it all, he's not one jot contrite or remorseful about it, in fact he wants to carry on this shameful lie with your children! You seem to be very okay with that, yet trust is the foundation of a solid relationship. I would wonder if he can so easily carry a lie such as this for so long with zero guilt or shame, what else he has lied about? If it were me I would pit your husband to the post and tell your children who Julian is. Goodness knows all the children but especially Julian deserve some truth and respect from the adults in their lives.

Commenter 5: You and your current husband are a lot alike. Both of you are willing to sacrifice his firstborn for comfort and convenience.

He doesn't want to give up his "future”, so he abandons his child. He was not a 15 year old kid who didn't truly understand how consequences work. He was 19. Old enough to have seen consequences in action even if his trash mother (and father if he was a co-conspirator) made sure he didn't experience them directly. Then, when the child he abandoned reached out to him, he doubled down on the cruelty. Now your coward husband continues to refuse to accept responsibility for his child. Not some family friend's child, but his own child.

And here you come with the he treats my children well so he can't be that bad of a guy bullshit. You, your husband, his mother (and father if applicable) need to face the reality that hubby is a child abandoner and a horrible person who sometimes does good things. You need to face the reality that you are choosing not to push him to do the right thing and fully admit the truth because it would disrupt your life and the lives of your children.

ESH except all of your husband's children. Every adult who conspired against a baby, a teen, and young adult in order to protect their falsely earned reputations as good people deserves to stub their pinky toes every 2 weeks until they do the bare minimum and acknowledge that young man's paternity.

 

Update: October 11, 2026 (15 days later)

UPDATE: AITH for refusing to help my husband hide his own child from our family, again?

It's been about two weeks since my original post, and things have been tense at home.

A few days later, I reached out to Julian privately and asked how he felt about my husband's plan to introduce him to the family as a family friend's son. He admitted that the idea hurt more than he wanted to let on. He didn't expect everyone to welcome him with open arms, but after spending two years rebuilding a relationship with his father, being introduced as some random person's son felt like being rejected all over again.

That honestly broke my heart. He'd already spent years being treated like a secret, and now we were asking him to play along with another lie just to make things easier for everyone else. I decided to have another conversation with my husband, this time without his mother involved. I asked him directly, "Are you trying to protect our kids, or are you trying to protect yourself from having to admit what you did?"

He immediately got defensive, saying I was making him out to be a terrible father. He didn't want our children to lose respect for him over something that happened before they were born. I reminded him that Julian wasn't just some mistake from his past. He'd abandoned him, rejected him when he was 13 and begging for a relationship, and then lied to me about the whole situation throughout our relationship.

After arguing for a while, my husband finally admitted he was ashamed. He was terrified the kids would ask why he'd abandoned Julian, and he didn't know how to explain it without looking like the bad guy. He'd been hoping the situation would somehow resolve itself without him having to face the consequences. I told him I wasn't asking him to share every ugly detail with the kids immediately. They deserve an age-appropriate explanation, not the entire history of his mistakes. But Julian is his son, and I won't pretend otherwise just to protect his reputation.

We also discussed his mother. My husband admitted she'd encouraged the "family friend's son" idea because she was worried about what the extended family would think. He'd gone along with it because it seemed easier than dealing with everyone's reactions. I told him that wasn't a good enough reason to make Julian feel unwanted all over again.

Eventually, my husband agreed that we need to tell our children who Julian really is. We're still figuring out how to approach the conversation, and Julian will have a say in what personal details are shared with the wider family. My MIL is furious with me. She thinks I had no right to pressure my husband into revealing something that could change how our children see him. She told me I should have let him handle the situation in his own time instead of turning his past into a family issue.

My husband has also remained upset with me. He says I cornered him and didn't give him enough time to figure things out himself. Part of me understands that this is difficult for him, but I'm frustrated that he seems more worried about how our children will judge him than about how Julian feels being hidden yet again. We're still working through everything in therapy, and this hasn't magically repaired the damage to our marriage. We haven't told the kids yet, and I'm nervous about how they'll react. I know this could permanently change how they see their father.

I don't want to hurt my husband, but I also don't think protecting him from the consequences of his own choices should come at Julian's expense. So, AITH for pushing my husband to finally acknowledge his son to our family, even though my husband thinks I should have let him decide when and how to tell the truth?

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: Good for you. Julian deserves to be acknowledged and accepted. Your husband needs to grow up and deal with the baggage he caused.

OOP: Thank you <3 I think that's what frustrates me the most. He's had years to avoid dealing with what he did, but Julian is the one who's had to live with the consequences. I don't expect my husband to be perfect, but I do expect him to take responsibility and stop making Julian feel like something he needs to hide.

Commenter 2: I just can’t imagine being Julian. Your husband needed more time? Honestly, this would be a deal breaker for me. What lessons is he teaching your kids by lying? What else is he hiding from you? I suspect there’s more under the surface. Either way, I hope you’re having a reckoning with your husband. He needs to be a good husband and honest man to all of his kids. I’m curious how the reveal will actually go. Good for you for standing up for Julian and your kids.

OOP: Honestly, I've started asking myself those same questions. If he could lie about something this significant for so many years, it's hard not to wonder what else I don't know. I also keep thinking about Julian and how many times he's had to be the one who suffers because my husband is too ashamed to face his own choices. We're still working through a lot in therapy, and I know telling the kids is going to be difficult, but I want it to be done properly this time. I'll update when that conversation happens.

Commenter 3: I have 4 kids with my ex-husband. Since I left, he hasn’t seen his kids. It’s been 8 years.

Just be aware, that this man will probably do it again if your marriage doesn’t work.

You will be raising those kids alone. Are you okay staying with someone like that? (The irony, right?)

OOP: That's honestly something I've thought about, especially now that I know he had multiple chances to be there for Julian and chose not to. I can't predict what he'd do if our marriage ended, but I can't ignore that pattern either. We're in therapy, but I know rebuilding trust will take more than just promises. I'm sorry you and your kids went through that, and thank you for making me think about this side of things.

Commenter 4: NTA but your husband is. He’s had 19 years to acknowledge this boy. He’s a pos!

OOP: Honestly, it's hard to argue with that when I look at the timeline. What gets me is that Julian gave him another chance when he was only 13, and my husband still chose to reject him. I know shame is part of what's holding him back now, but Julian shouldn't have to keep paying for his father's choices. Thank you for being honest.

Commenter 5: MIL pressuring "in his own time" is wild; it's been 19 YEARS.

Good on you for being a good human.

OOP: That's what I keep coming back to. How much more time does he need when Julian has already spent most of his life waiting for his father to acknowledge him? I understand my husband feels ashamed, but Julian shouldn't have to keep waiting just because the truth is uncomfortable for everyone else

Commenter 6: NTA! I’m just glad Julian has you in his corner. I can’t imagine how hard this is for you. I love that he is able to trust you and be honest about his feelings. You’re clearly an amazing person and Mom.

OOP: Thank you, this genuinely means a lot ❤️ I think what hurts most is knowing Julian has spent so much of his life feeling unwanted by his own father. I can't undo what happened to him, but I can at least make sure he's not made to feel like a secret in our family anymore. I'm glad he feels comfortable enough to tell me how he really feels, and I want to keep earning that trust.

Commenter 7: Wow. He’s afraid his kids will think he’s a terrible person, so he then proceeds to continue to be a terrible person? Yeah, sorry you’re married to that.

OOP: That's exactly what I've been struggling with. He's so worried about our kids thinking less of him that he was willing to make Julian feel rejected all over again. I keep hoping he'll understand that taking responsibility is the only way to move forward, but it's frustrating that I had to push him this far just to get him to acknowledge it

 

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP