Big one. Every other day I see a post from a man saying “M25 I’m never going to find someone” and their post goes on to imply that their happiness is fully dependent on finding a woman. I get it, it’s an irreplaceable feeling to be loved and have someone to share your life with. But relying on that as the sole reason for your happiness is setting your whole life up for failure. There’s so much more to life and you have to do at least SOME work to heal your emotional wounds yourself before dating or else no one will even want to date you.
I say this as someone who felt like finding a girlfriend would be the only thing that could change things for me back when I was a depressed teen. Community and purpose helped me a lot in my early 20s, even if I fell
Back into dark times a few years later. I love my partner but putting all that on her to be my crutch would be unfair. She’s supportive but I learned it’s not on the people I date to heal me
Well said, I wasn't a bad guy or anything. I had a hard childhood. I dealt with a lot of physical and emotional neglect. I also have a physical disability from birth. Many adults in my life told me that one day I would get a girlfriend and people would be jealous of how my life would be. It set up this mythos that my worth would be dictated by the women I attract. I ruined some of the most meaningful relationships in my life and it's by being so concerned that I would lose them and become worthless.
The really destructive part about this frame of thinking is that it objectifies women into not fully human and their purpose being centered around my need. Women are not on this planet to make men feel secure.
Preach brother! This is one of the best replies I have seen here. I was one who used women as a crutch, and have only realised this recently. “To all the girls I’ve loved before….” I’m sorry. 😔
Yeah, you will eventually hate each other if this is the path you choose. I see it happen constantly, with both people looking for that validation from the other when the reality is whatever they’re looking for is inside of them.
Whatever wounds you carry need to be understood by you, before you attach to another person.
Seriously. The number of these posts I see is insane, and they are all the same in terms of the guy not being honest about what he offers/his issues and thinking that finding a partner is the key to solving everything. I need to save your comment to use when I see these posts. You articulated it better than I ever did.
Imo it's a bit more complicated than just "I need a girlfriend to be happy."
In my case, I'm 25 and honestly, I've never felt happier in my life overall. I have a great job and a solid degree that's setting me up for a good career. I genuinely love my colleagues, they've become real friends, and we do tons of activities together. I live in a beautiful apartment in an amazing country with incredible food and a peaceful lifestyle. I live right next to the sea, I go surfing regularly, I hit the gym, and I eat well. My health hygiene is on point.
However, even with all of that going for me, there are still times when I feel lonely, specifically missing someone to share intimate moments with. That genuinely brings me down sometimes. I also feel the social pressure here and there (like looking around and realizing every single person on the beach that day is in a couple, lol). Dating apps are a ghost town (zero matches), so that's a total dead end.
It’s not something that ruins my life or consumes me 24/7, but knowing that finding romance feels effortless for some guys and almost every girl out there definitely stings. Sometimes you just want to vent about it, you know?
Seriously bro, a lot of people say they need a woman when they really need a cat or something.
I was guilty of seeking "emotional support women", which isn't fair to her or me. Now I'm taking time working on myself with cats and idk why I ever tried to seek out unfulfilling relationships to lean on.
Way to go, dude. Self-reflection will do you well. You don't have to be a perfect person to have love. However, you can't love a person as a whole person if you view them as a means to your end. Working on yourself will free more capacity for you to be loved and give love.
Exactly. They are not captive therapists. You gotta have that work done before a woman is in the picture. They are also not captive nurses or caretakers either. Hire professionals instead.
No, relationships is very much about emotional labor, on both sides, preferably therapy and professional help if needed. But also like c'mon, needing reassurance from your girlfriend is obviously normal and good. Depends on how you want the relationship to be, co-dependent and all in or more relaxed and laid back or proper and traditional. All up to the two in it
I don't think anyone in this threat is advocating for not ever emotionally depending on anyone. We're more talking about larger and broader scopes of societal expectations of women. We're not advocating that men have no emotional needs or being emotionally perfect.
I guess it depends on the man too, I am very internalizing and if I would follow this advice I wouldn't tell anyone anything. But also depends on what the woman wants, if she wants to be the therapist, why can't she be? it doesn't really match with what is seen as a normal healthy relationship, but that is different for each person because of values and personality. Are you aware of how much personality/temperament is genetic? It's sort of a tough pill to swallow sometimes, but that's still us
Listen I'm not saying it's complete binary of either you follow this advice or you're a terrible partner. But I think that viewing any relationship as a pathway towards your emotional healing is going to set you up to view relationships as purely transactional and centered around your emotional needs. I am not saying I am the arbor of who is a healthy adult. I am just simply sad that I have made any mistakes in both romantic and platonic relationships and I've learned a lot about how my views of women's roles in my life or destructive. As you can see, that has resonated true with many people that have viewed this thread. It might be something worth reflecting on.
This is kind of different to what you said earlier though. But I do agree with you more here, but I also think you are underestimating how different people function which is understandable as you can't be anything but yourself, I might very much overestimate how different people do relationships. I think this advice could as well ruin a relationship as well as help it, someone might see their partner as too cold because they never open up just as someone else might see their partner as too much because they always vent, but those people could also open up just as much. It's subjective after all. I already do a lot of introspection, don't have much else going on anyways. But I know I am very much internalizing so I highly doubt this would be as helpful for me
How is that different than what I've repeatedly said throughout this entire thread. I have continually clarified to state that my original statement was not to communicate that you can't have emotional intimacy or should expect emotional intimacy. I think you like the other person who was making civil arguments or creating a straw man argument because you were uncomfortable with how much people agreed with my original comment.
Don't get belligerent now, I apologize if my previous reply came off as mean that was not my intention.
It is different, you softened it and expanded it and made it way more individualized compared to before. I don't really know which other person you mean either? and I am not truly arguing with a strawman, I was just saying my own opinion. That advice you gave earlier to a sensitive/self critical person can very well come off as don't burden your partner. Which I think is false, because you aren't a burden you're partners, ideally you should get professional help yes, but most people who are self critical won't think that, they'll think I am bad how to stop being bad, not how to stop seeing myself as bad. I think this is very much the thing where telling people to stop doing something will only stop the people who wouldn't really do it anyways from doing the main thing. Where as the people who were doing it wouldn't care as much as they are already self centered, so most of them wouldn't care. Though this isn't most people and awareness is I think the main issue. Fixing yourself before a relationship is also sort of shallow to me as you are never 'fixed' and being accountable is important and many people shouldn't tie their value to their partner as that can easily turn into manipulation and power imbalances which for many people is problematic.
I am once again sorry if I am coming off as belligerent, if my words don't make sense and is jumbled and such, I am not a native English speaker. I am also sorry if my comment made you feel bad about giving advice that was not really my intention, but to be more careful about blanket statements I think
Agreed, not only is a relationship worse for your mental health if you entered with the thought to get better mentally but if you're desperate you'll likely ignore red flags from a woman who'd ruin your mental health even if you entered the relationship perfectly fine
Hahaha I literally preach this to any man in my life and I share with any woman as well. Coming to understand this has helped me grow in a way that have immense gratitude.
Don't agree with this. Physical touch i.e. just a hug, combined with listening/understanding, is the most powerful way to heal emotional traumas. This attitude just comes across as bitter and spiteful, not least of all because women expect men to share with their burdens by default.
You can do it through group/community as well but that option is out for most men in this culture, because our culture simply doesn't give a fuck about you in that way least of all men.
You don't need to play psychologist for a man, but god dam we're supposed to be compassionate for each other aren't we? If not, what's the fucking point of all of this?
All the hugs in the world won’t resolve issues that require self reflection and internal work. Plenty of people have loving relationships and still hate their lives.
If we're talking about young men with low self-esteem and lack of positive emotional support from family and community growing up, which is a lot of young men, then saying "just do internal work bro" is doubling up on their pain.
These are men who have been failed, betrayed even, and you're asking them to man up when literally they haven't been given the tools to do that. You can't self-reflect your way out of lack of the direct experiences you need.
It's like a timid young child scared of riding a bicycle or something. Shouting at them does nothing. You have to support them through the first experience, that is what drives male psychology forward.. not navel gazing. Once they get a little ego boost, then they get the confidence to take the training wheels off. For lack of a better metaphor. And 'support' can be just giving them the opportunity not necessarily hand-holding them through it.
I don't think you really understand what is involved.
Once again, I think you're creating strawman arguments. I don't want to speculate for what purpose. Nowhere is anyone saying for young men to be emotionally stoic. We are not saying that betrayal is irrelevant. That is something that you are creating in this discourse. I am just advocating that men need to not view women as a means to heal emotional turmoil. Romantic relationships can be part of the process but it is not the end goal. I think you're being rather disingenuous
Not really. If men didn't get the nurturing they needed as men from family, community, and the culture at large.. where else is left for them to get it? Do you not see why so many young men fall into the trap of placing redemption on women in the first place? We're social animals, and as I said to someone else 'naval gazing' or paying some complete stranger for 'therapy' who has zero emotional rapport with you is not what men need to heal. Men do not work like that. They need to do. That's why every other functional human culture has 'rites of passage' for young men.. it's basic male psychology.
If women aren't prepared to even give some struggling man a chance to shine, then what you end up with is either total implosion or they become absolutely bitter and turn their backs to everything not just women.
You're already starting to see that latter taking place now in wider culture as even the well put together men are being excluded from dating and relationships by women's outrageous expectations and financial issues.
No, a man shouldn't expect a woman to solve everything, but that's not really the point. All they need is a little acknowledgement, as men, and women can absolutely play a healing role in that. I mean christ, it's not exactly a massive burden is it, especially for the sex which is supposedly the more social attuned and caring.
Addendum: you know what I'm going to add a little more after the fact. Because I realize that you accused me of not understanding what is involved in the emotional turmoil.
I have grown up my entire life under the poverty line. I didn't have my dad and my life. My mom was a functioning addict with three jobs that was emotionally unavailable. I was born with a physical disability that requires me to use a wheelchair. Throughout my childhood and into adulthood I have had multiple occasions where I found out that my friends weren't really my friends. I have been emotionally lead on romantically. I have been cheated on in relationships. I have almost died by suicide. I came out of the hospital and my girlfriend at the time, the one person I trusted broke up with me that very night. She ended up dating my friend and having a child. I cried everyday for about 2 years. I cried so much that the skin around my eyes started to bleed.
Since 2019, I had somewhere in the ballpark of 50 people in my life die. During the pandemic I couldn't leave my house for 3 years. I currently have no close friends. I regularly have to set my frame of mind to be overwhelmed with my own emotional hardship to get through the day. I say all of that and still uphold that women owe me absolutely nothing. No woman is responsible for my inner life. No woman is responsible for my happiness. You can continue to create this straw man discourse. However, I doubt it will actually help you. Women owe us nothing!
Well said. I used to be angry at my mother, who was stone cold and very distant for most of my life (then later, she got demonstrative by just yelling most of the time). She had a rough childhood, and I eventually forgave her. She was under no obligation to do anything for me except provide food and a roof, which she did. Will Smith said as much in “Bad Boys2:” “That’s why they are called your problems.” It’s up to me to become who I want to be.
Yeah, I had to go no-contact with my mom 12 years ago. It is hard, but I have come to much of the same conclusion as you even I must maintain no-contact.
I’m glad you figured out what would keep you safe. I am no-contact with her father today, who was the one who perpetrated most of the crap on my mother.
If we're not actively working to support each other, then what is the fucking point of this bullshit pretence we call "society".
You've evidently had a shit hand in life and I get why you would put up a barrier (self-resilience) for your own security, absolutely understandable given the above statement about society not giving a single solitary fuck about us as individuals and especially as men.
It's not about women "owing" us anything or being responsible for all of our happiness, but for fucks sake man.. if we're not going extend compassion to each other then we might as well pack up and leave this rock because we've already failed.
There's plenty of men out there who'll take a chance on a woman who isn't comparably put together, but for some reason when it's flipped it's suddenly all the individual man's responsibility? No fuck that. We're supposed to be a community driven social species, we can help in the healing of another person.
It's ok to acknowledge that modern women are generally a reflection of our wider culture; utterly ruthless.
I think the primary issue is that no matter what I continually say to you you twisted into a narrative that society is against you. At no point did I advocate for self-reliance as the only option. I have only pushed forward that we cannot view women as a means to an end to our emotional trauma. You keep framing it that way. If I were to speculate it's because that narrative helps you cope with your frustration. At no point did I say that you have to be emotionally perfect. At no point did I say that you are unworthy of support. It is very clear to me that you are struggling and I want you to have support. However, I will tell you that you want a path to repeat your suffering over and over if you feel that women are the issue. The world is far too complex for it to be boiled down to that simplistic of a view. I do not take my view of the world as the only path. But this should be a reflective moment for you to understand that people find how you are approaching this discussion as problematic. I know it is much easier to take into account that this is evidence to reinforce your worldview. However, I will tell you from my own personal growth that if you can find the strength to see that you are contributing to your own suffering (you are not the sole cause), you can find a path forward to being a little bit better. When I got out of the hospital, people would always say to me:
"it'll get better, you won't even think about this time in your life after a while." That has never been true. I can say that although things didn't get better. I found a way to be better. I am still here open to all of the love and friendship that I can get. And yes, still I persist that women are not the solution to that heartache that I still deal with
I have italicised numerous times in my posts that men shouldn't see women as the sole way to achieve healing, happiness, or what have you.. but that women can absolutely be a part of that process. A massive part, depending on their level of compassion and intuition.
Am I bitter? Absolutely. Because I helped a woman when I was younger, I gave her a chance, helped her heal from a massive trauma (rape). She even got a transcendental experience out of it; she had some sort of nervous energy release when I held her that time. So, she got back on her feet.. then paid me back by utterly betraying me later. I did that when I myself had my own shit to deal with, which I carried alone, that she couldn't touch. That is compassion.
Frustration doesn't even convey it my friend. I have yet to find a single woman my age or younger who even conveys compassion let alone demonstrates it. Yet women have an innate ability to heal others, but they've allowed this dogshit culture to convince them to distrust or even harbour hate towards men. I see it, I feel it, I have felt it for decades. To say society isn't against men is to be blind my friend, the zeitgeist has been that way for a long time now.
I agree, I think this advice just makes self critical men shrink away from relationships because they're not 'fixed yet' leaving careless men left which are the ones that offload the emotions onto the other partner.
It is unfair to men but it is up to them to fix themselves as adults.
Eternal introspection isn't good either, being alone does make you lose your sense of self, you need another to exist, and you gain that by being with other people. I think the older generation not being able to teach the younger one how to deal with the risk of eternal rejection because of the internet is very problematic, messing up now is much riskier than it used to be because of internet and how widespread communication is along with a culture of calling men creeps for different reasons.
I also think it is fair to say a partner is entitled to the other partners labour once they are together, that is what a relationship is, you are together for better and worse, growing together is what makes it beautiful. It is probably more helpful to get professional help yes, but someone trying to help you for the sake of being you is way more important than paying someone to help you. Feels hollow
I don't think your response demonstrates a rhetorical understanding of my point. I think you're creating a bit of a straw man argument. I didn't say don't seek relational intimacy. I didn't say become a stoic and become emotionally perfect before entering a relationship. I said don't view women as your pathway to emotional healing. Which, I have personally found that women really appreciate that I don't view them as responsible for my security.
you're talking like this as if people genuinely care about eachother, they don't. they're pretending to care just because. all these people & societies you're talking about would kill eachother without a second thought if they needed to. all the sacrifices and moral compass are just social tools to make them look good infront of others, and desperately cling on to the hope that they won't be forgotten.
we're all still animals on the inside. we indulge on tribalism & hypocrisy because it is who we are. compassion is just another way to manipulate individuals into thinking they're not a competition, we share not because we care about others but because we only care about ourselves. nobody makes friends with the intent of helping or understanding them, we do it in hopes of not being labeled as the enemy. we do it to protect ourselves.
we have been burying this feeling for centuries because it isn't meant to be shared but at the end of the day nothing else matters but yourself, isolation is the default for everyones' lives no matter where they are or who they're surrounded by, there will always be a sense of burden or responsibility because deep down we all know all of our peers will die or leave us in some form and any kind of attachment is essentially meaningless and unnecessary unless it is for financial gain.
the point in all of this, is a hierarchy.
where nothing else is discussed except who's on top and finding multiple ways for anyone else to get on top. we cannot surpass our own nature, we are social creatures with basic needs and goals and no amount of intelligence or empathy will change that. most of us are just disposable organic matter that will be forgotten outside of our century or decade regardless of how important we think we are, you simply cannot ignore the truth that we have no god but we're gonna pretend to do so anyways because we aren't capable of thinking beyond that.
nah im just kidding lol idk what the hell im talking about i just want someone to downvote me bc I want to have my karma at exactly 2.1k lol
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u/hemanstarfox 13h ago edited 12h ago
Stop viewing women as the pathway to your having your emotional wounds healed