okay. tahts cool. but heres the thing.

1. You said that my argument of using Autopoeisis, is just human "intentionality and teleology".

But entropy and autopoiesis are EXACTLY non-teleological and just pure cosmic dynamics.

Systems that don't dissipate heat and maintain local boundary order... Disintegrate.

Systems that do? persist.

There is zero "intent" required, it is a purely mechanical emergence of thermodynamic selection.

2. And the Cog in the Machine analogy doesnt actually work anymore these days.

I recently got into the biology and ai argument recently as that's what Functionalists and Hard-Computationalists say for decades now. But recent neuroscience kind of dealt a hard blow on the "Human brain is exactly just like a silicon computer but organic".

Human constructed computers like a car or AI models are all functional, but their functoins are "Allotypic". Which means they were created a-priori by actual primary living things to serve an outside purpose (a car exists to transport a human, a computer exists to run a assembly code).

Living organisms are exactly as mentioned, Autopoeitic (self-creating).

The function of a cell is to maintain the cell. The function of the heart is to pump blood to keep the body alive so the body can keep making the heart work.

As you notice there, in actual living organisms: the function and the structure are the exact same thing.

We are systems whose primary function is the continuous, real-time maintenance and reproduction of our own physical existence.

3. You gotta know that using a base physicalist argument there that it undermines your current idealist position right?

Cause you are accidentally conceding the ontological priority of matter over mind.

An Idealist cannot say "Matter doesn't exist independently, it's just mind" and then turn around and say that the "biological concept is wrong because fundamentally only atoms and quantum fields exist.

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Hopefully the weapons of reason beat the private equity overlords before their weapons of AI do

I'll be honest, I didn't encounter it in stoic place, I get the idea from readings lots of eastern philosophies like Taoism.

A quote was found to be attributed to Epictetus in The Enchiridion 8 (Long)

^{(Long)
(Matheson)
(Carter)
(Oldfather)
(Higginson)}

How to achieve ἀταραξία?

"Seek not that the things which happen should happen as you wish; but wish the things which happen to be as they are, and you will have a tranquil flow of life."
— Epictetus

“Happiness is a good flow of life.” - Zeno of Citium

"It is not events that disturb people, but their judgements concerning them."
— Epictetus

"If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment." - Marcus Aurelius

The Stoics didn’t think you could get a tranquil undisturbed mind by just deciding to be tranquil, or by controlling your environment. They thought you got there by training yourself to eliminate unreasonable desires, correct your own false impressions about the events of life, and flow with external events by reacting with virtuous action.

Disciple of desire.
Discipline of assent.
Discipline of action.

Hi everyone, I could use some help. I’m asking this because I would like some advice on how to apply stoicism in my situation.

Let’s go.

I’ve come out of a heavy period of alcoholism and suicide attempts, and I'm turning to Stoicism to help rebuild my life.

Seneca was also suicidal. He even admitted at one point the only thing keeping him from ending it was that he didn’t think his father could bear it. Maybe you’ll find a kindred spirit in his writings. I know I have.

I’ve taken control of my life and changed what was in my power to change (Alcohol addiction and suicideideation).

Good for you.

Right now, my main obstacle to my inner calm is that I’m still living with my family. I really dislike being here because they don't allow me to be myself.

How exactly could anyone reach into your mind and turn you into someone else? Why would you wait for someone to allow you to be yourself? If you know who you want to be get to work.

“If a person gave away your body to some passerby, you'd be furious. Yet you hand over your mind to anyone who comes along, so they may abuse you, leaving it disturbed and troubled—have you no shame in that?” - Epictetus

"First tell yourself what kind of person you want to be, then do what you have to do. For in nearly every pursuit we see this to be the case. Those in athletic pursuit first choose the sport they want, and then do that work."
— Epictetus

I’ve been trying to move out for over a year, but I haven't been able to find a job yet. They keep negatively affecting my life even financially.

Your family is allowing you to stay with them when you don’t have a job and can’t afford a place of your own, and you claim they are negatively affecting you financially?

Help me understand: According to Stoicism, should I just continue living my life and making my personal choices, even if my family criticizes me?

According to Stoicism the criticism from your family is external to you. The emotion you feel as a result of that external event is based on an impression and not the event itself. Your job is to put that impression to the test, determine if the impression aligns with reason and virtue, and then either assent to that impression or withdraw assent and dismiss it as a false impression.

Discipline of assent.

Should I cut ties with them mentally for now—like completely ignoring them or not engaging whenever they make toxic comments or try to push my buttons?

How do you intend to cut ties mentally with people you live with and interact with every single day? How exactly do you think you can keep your brain from observing them, creating ideas about them, and having emotional reactions to those ideas?

If you want detachment then that’s not Stoicism. If you want to learn how to evaluate your impressions and then channel that into a life well lived then that is Stoicism.

And if yes, how to stop being sad or angry after hearing what they say?

What do you value? What do you attach emotional weight to?

If you knew what you actually valued in life and then made every decision in your life based on moving toward that value, and took every action in your life with that value in mind, then nothing anyone said to you could harm you. You’d be a person living their life as they want. You’d be thriving. You’d be living your best life. What could anyone say to such a person to make them feel bad?

The Stoics suggested you value virtue. Wisdom, courage, temperance, and justice.

Any advice or perspective would be greatly appreciated.

Are the words what are hurting you? Or are the words just pointing out something in your mind you don’t want to confront? Is it the external thing that’s hurting you or is it your perception of it? Your task is to figure out why that is.

Also, Stoics believes that virtue was the only inherently good thing in the universe. Justice is a part of virtue. Justice means everyone gets treated with fairness and dignity. Everyone includes you. You deserve to be treated with fairness and dignity. If you think you are being treated unjustly then the Stoics have no problem with you standing up for yourself.

Courage is also a part of virtue. Courage is not only being brave in the face of bodily harm like on a battlefield. Courage means knowing the difference between right and wrong and being an advocate for what’s right even if it causes you discomfort, pain, or death.

If you don’t think you can stand up for yourself then don’t. Instead be an advocate for what’s right. Don’t argue that their unjust treatment of you should stop because it hurts you. Argue that it should stop because it’s wrong to treat anyone unjustly. Don’t make it about you. Make it about virtue.

That only works if their treatment of you is actually unjust though. If all they are doing is pointing out the truth, and the truth hurts your feelings, then courage means you have to deal with that yourself.

The reality is that the rise of AI is almost entirely out of our control - you and me and everyone here in the comments. If the boss says "bye", then we're all SOL.

Pretend that you were laid off ten minutes ago. What would you tell yourself? What do you wish you could have done differently? What aspects of the layoff bothers you the most? What can you do NOW to prepare yourself physically and mentally, in the event that it happens? Itemize your fears, and one at a time, reflect on them.

Not an ancient text, but “How to Be a Stoic” by Massimo Pigliucci talks about overindulgence in food, but I don’t think about which types to partake in versus another.

Thank you for this interesting article. I read your Philosophy of Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy with great benefit and will most certainly enjoy the book you’re working in now as well once it’s available :)

As someone who works in a tech field and AI is everywhere and pushed, I understand the feeling.

We can only do what is appropriate for us to do. In this case, I find educating myself and adapting my role to be a leader in the proper use of AI, understanding its true strengths and limitations, and being fully present in what is happening.

"We suffer more in our imagination than in reality" is a useful observation from Seneca. Its important to evaluate how we receive moments and trends like this and ensure that we align to rational approaches to the situation.

That is, after all, where our agency lies in any moment.

Yeah I started working out more, thank you. I already took a lot of therapy when I was a teenager, and I am honestly tired of it.

thank you for your encouragement

You have to change your perception of it. This is an opportunity to try something new. Applying to jobs is now your full-time job! Of course there will be rejection. Rejection is part of life, so it should be embraced. More practically, all these jobs use AI to filter resumes now. You can use it to make an AI-compliant resume as well, which is what I did.

A quote was found to be attributed to Epictetus in The Enchiridion 5 (Long)

^{(Long)
(Matheson)
(Carter)
(Oldfather)
(Higginson)}

A quote was found to be attributed to Epictetus in The Enchiridion 5 (Long)

^{(Long)
(Matheson)
(Carter)
(Oldfather)
(Higginson)}

Stoicism is a philosophy which values our moral choices. We are never truly threatened by any external event unless we choose to be threatened by it. Put simply 'nothing can make us bad' unless we choose to be bad.

Have you read any Epictetus? "Men are disturbed not by the things which happen, but by their opinions about the things" (Chapter 5 of the Enchiridion)

It took me years to really understand the truth in that.

AI may appear scary, but so have other new technologies that have come along. Yeah, of course I get that this is bigger and bolder but 'scarier' is a judgment you are making. I personally got laid off a couple of years ago out of the blue. No warning at all. Even though I'd been following stoicism for several years I was still rocked for a couple of weeks, but I quickly regained my equilibrium and made a plan for the future. Making that plan helped me. Plus realising that being laid off was just an event that happened, it didn't speak to my moral worth or my character, it just was.

To mitigate the anxiety, you have to use stoicism to control your life so that, if you get laid-off, that you have a secondary path that you can take... your own business, a hobby-turned-passive-income, a degree/certification in another field, etc...

My opinion (based on life experience, not on anything professional) is that there are different sorts of anxiety

So there is specific anxiety about certain things and the comments you have already received are I think helpful in terms of suggesting you can reframe that and examine the judgements you are making that are causing you to worry. Stoicism can be helpful there. Nothing is intrinsically good or bad (apart from vice or bad character), external events are indifferent to us even if they concern our health or finances or reputation etc. Nothing can harm us unless we let it.

Have you read anything by Epictetus? For me it was life altering to see life the way he teaches.

But I think there is also another type of anxiety that needs to be treated differently, it's really more of a medical condition caused by trauma or ptsd, those sorts of things. This isn't "I'm afraid xyz will happen" which can be managed by what I've written above, this is more "my brain default setting is anxiety and it's looking for something to latch on to"

General default anxiety is hard to resolve just by thinking or reframing because as soon as you deal with one scenario another will pop up because that's what your brain defaults to. So you have to learn to manage it. Meds can def. help but if you prefer not to go that route, then you have to accept that it is your brain's default and develop a script each time it pops up. Something like "thank you brain for trying to protect me", then the power of the anxiety lessens as you accept it's a brain construct and not a real threat. My experience anyway.

What you describe seems very similar to me to the Stoic concept of 'acting with a reserve clause'; intending to do things even while accepting that circumstances out of our control might negate our efforts.
For practical advice regarding this topic, you might be interested to learn about the Stoic disciplines of desire, action and assent.

I'm curious, where did you first encounter this concept of "living in the state or openness"?

Marcus Aurelius has a line for this "Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present"

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What are some examples of responding to a harsh/traumatic impression with virtue? Feeling compassion towards yourself? Letting yourself feel the painful sensations? Or is it more cognitive work like trying to change perspective?

From a practical standpoint, prepare your resume and note the achievements and results you delivered during your tenure at your current company, along with the expertise and skills you acquired. In case you're laid off. Stay in touch with current colleagues and maintain your network outside the company. Be ready to obtain personal recommendations. What personal business do you need to take care of if it does occur?

Realize that companies and businesses have to cut costs and take on certain initiatives, and cutting salaries across the board is often one way to do that. It's not particularly different from any other company. As an employee, do you have a say in whether you are retained? For those who are retained, what is the difference? From this point forward, is there anything you can do to increase your chances of not being laid off? If you are laid off, is it really the end of your professional career?

Atonement is the act of making amends, reparation, or reconciliation for a wrong, injury, or offense. This word isn’t reserved just for religious people, tho it's often associated. The concept of "atonement" is a theological mechanism for removing sin. It asks us to see all the ways we "missed the mark", ask for forgiveness, and go out and do good works with our brothers and sisters.

I, too, had to find a way to see all the ways I'd "missed the mark". A Stoic word for that would be *harmatia* .

In Stoicism, hamartia refers to a "missed mark" or error in judgment resulting from ignorance or faulty reasoning, rather than a moral stain or inheritable sin. The Stoics viewed wrongdoing as a correctable intellectual mistake where an individual mistakes a bad action for a good one.

​Because Stoics viewed God (Logos) as an immanent, rational principle governing the cosmos rather than an external deity, they viewed wrongdoing as an error in judgment that harms the offender's own rational soul. Rather than seeking atonement, Stoics emphasize recognizing the error, correcting one's reason, and returning to virtuos action.

This is what makes Stoicism a philosophy and not a religion.

You've already recognized the error, and you're starting to see some of the reasons you went along with the crowd. *Really examine those reasons.*

The reasons are important because without seeing your truth behind your reasoning, you may find yourself putting yourself in inappropriate places yet again. I don't know your specifics, but it could be anything under the sun. If you're wired to be impulsive, it's very possible to get a handle on that.

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The thing that sort of helped me overcome beating myself up with guilt in a rumination sense is that I realized the only person i'm competing with is my past self.

Different people have different journeys and arrive at the height of their strengths sooner than others. Different trials and circumstances. Different character. Different outcome.

Try to find peace in the realization that you did the best you knew how to at the time with the information you had. Understand that everyday is another opportunity to do better. When you settle down at the end of the day, ask yourself how well you lived it. If you did the best you could you can put it to rest. Lay down the burden of all your yesterdays so that you can pick up the burden of today and carry it well.

I hope that helps.