r/Stoicism • • 6h ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

3 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 1h ago

New to Stoicism Just saw Ryan Holiday live in Brisbane. How is he regarded in the Stoic community these days?

• Upvotes

I’ve just come away from seeing Ryan Holiday live in Brisbane with a renewed appreciation for the work he’s done to bring Stoicism to a wider audience, myself included.

I know he’s had his fair share of critics here, and this definitely isn’t a show-review subreddit. However, I’m curious how the wider Stoic community is receiving him right now.

The first 45 minutes were a walk-through of the four virtues, which he covered well, with good grace and detailed reference to the original texts. So far, so good.

He really came alive, though, during the Q&A that followed. He was on stage for about 80 minutes and was excellent throughout. Some of the audience questions were challenging, and many people had clearly done their homework. Ryan answered with thought, honesty, warmth, and some vulnerability, and from the conversations I overheard outside, it sparked renewed interest in Stoicism.

It felt like he’s matured and is moving into a deeper, more reflective phase than “buy these memento mori coins.”

So, how is he perceived these days? Either way, I’m genuinely thankful that his work over the last ten years introduced me to a philosophy that’s making a real difference in my life.


r/Stoicism • • 1d ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

4 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 1d ago

New to Stoicism How to deal with the anxiety related to job security due to AI?

69 Upvotes

I have been working in tech industry for 1 year and recently AI has caused a lot of layoffs in tech industry and I’m very concerned that I will be layoff pretty soon because my company is also quietly laying off people every single month.

How do I use stoicism to deal with that?


r/Stoicism • • 2d ago

New to Stoicism How do you deal with guilt?

28 Upvotes

Very new to Stoicism.

How does Stoicism deal with guilt? A chain of events in the past, where I myself was part of, led to a lot of misfortune. Until that time, I had never seen much suffering or hardships, so all that volatility, It moved too fast and overwhelmed my own judgement of the situation and the people I was dealing with, and unfortunately led to a lot of pain. But always I find myself guilty "Why I wasn't as strong as some others to get us out of that chain?". I am trying to grow, but this is somewhat eating me little.


r/Stoicism • • 2d ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

3 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 2d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance Stoicism and Theism in relation to Meditations

20 Upvotes

As somebody who's trying his best to be stoic and to be true to myself, I read and I take in lots of literature and media in relation to stoicism. But the single most important book that I've related so much to is meditations. It's like this little book full of my life's problems and in the process of reading it, my brain was moving up and down. Why? Because even though it has catalogued every single one of my life's problems, not even a single solution can be applied to my own life. Aurelius is hellbent on solving everything due to divine purpose and as somebody who does not believe in god, it's really hard to follow these advices because it is inherently connected to divine purpose. I've tried replacing or reiterating divine as mother nature or the universe, but subconsciously it still irks me. Does anybody have any advice on how to tackle this or any other alternate literature best suitable for somebody who's an atheist? Thanks


r/Stoicism • • 2d ago

New to Stoicism How to live in the state of openess?

2 Upvotes

Does Stoicism prescribe in living in the state or openness? What do I mean in this? The state of openness is living and in the state of acceptance, that you can't really control most if not all of the outcomes of your decision. That we don't even have control even on our thoughts. And so we ease our "grip" in life. That is what I mean in State of Openness.

If yes, how does Stoic prescribe in living like this? How someone like me cultivate this state?


r/Stoicism • • 2d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance How to achieve ἀταραξία?

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I could use some help. I’m asking this because I would like some advice on how to apply stoicism in my situation. I’ve come out of a heavy period of alcoholism and suicide attempts, and I'm turning to Stoicism to help rebuild my life. I’ve taken control of my life and changed what was in my power to change (Alcohol addiction and suicideideation).

Right now, my main obstacle to my inner calm is that I’m still living with my family. I really dislike being here because they don't allow me to be myself. I’ve been trying to move out for over a year, but I haven't been able to find a job yet. They keep negatively affecting my life even financially. I

Help me understand: According to Stoicism, should I just continue living my life and making my personal choices, even if my family criticizes me? Should I cut ties with them mentally for now—like completely ignoring them or not engaging whenever they make toxic comments or try to push my buttons? And if yes, how to stop being sad or angry after hearing what they say?

Any advice or perspective would be greatly appreciated.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

New to Stoicism How do you work on your traumas and past?

42 Upvotes

As a practitioner of Stoicism, what kind of "ritual" do you do to face your pasts and traumas you experienced.

I want to face my traumas because of I know that to proceed with my life, I need to face my past and make peace with it.

Thanks for the answers.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance How do you cope with the fear of AI?

0 Upvotes

I'm gonna make it short, since you hear all the time how rapidly AI is developing and how it will replace all jobs, drag us into a technofeudalist dystopia or possibly end humanity altogether. I do not at all buy into the tech bro view of worshipping progress, but I do believe that it is inevitable and out of anyone's control (except our dear tech billionaire CEOs). What would be the course of action to take according to stoicism?


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance Need some advice

0 Upvotes

I'm to have a tube put down my throat next week and I'm shitting it.

Are there any stoic techniques i can use?

If i break it down to what would be the worst thing?

I can't breath and freak out.

And then...

They give me a sedation and I'm off work the next day.

Let my manager know that I might be off the next day.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance Do you follow any Stoic practices that help with anxiety?

18 Upvotes

I’m feeling a bit better after observing my thoughts before they take hold of my brain with irrational thoughts and cause anxiety. So wondering if you guys have any other tips.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

3 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

New to Stoicism Modern english translation (audiobook) of Meditations.

0 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

Can anyone recommend an audiobook which does not use the medieval church english most do?

I can not understand what the point of it is. For me it is immersion breaking and pretentious.


r/Stoicism • • 3d ago

Stoic Banter What would Stoics think of Idealism?

3 Upvotes

The closest we got to Stoic Idealism is through Middle Platonism and Neoplatonism which was fundementally Platonic but integrated Stoic philosophy into its system.

I keep wondering what would Stoics think about Idealism , what if the Intelligible is the ground of reality instead of the material? Yet it's interesting how even within an Idealist framework you could treat the Logos as the ground of Intelligibility (not that Stoics didn't do that to explain the Rational Soul) and the same Principle of Order that resolves contradictions that was explained for the material applies for the Intelligible. Like you can see that in Hegelian Dialectics for example, it's basically Heraclitus but for Intelligibility being the starting point of reality.


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

Seeking Personal Stoic Guidance I am a failure. Will studying stoicism help me?

0 Upvotes

I am 18 years old, and I am in engineering school. I never liked engineering or math in general but I wanted to be classmates with my girlfriend now ex, and she ended up not passing the entrance exam and I did, which was the single unluckiest moment of my life. I failed the second semester of my first year, I am a procrastinator, I know I can do better but I dont know how to start. Even a small step will help, but no matter how hard i try I always keep coming back to my old worthless self. Now i am in my second year and in the first semester, I fear I will fail multiple subjects due to a lack of effort or perhaps im just not good enough. I just want to feel alive again and be set on the right track. I would say my closest passion would be, healthcare. But I dont know, im scared.


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

New to Stoicism Do Stoicism improve your life in general?

37 Upvotes

In what way? In pursuing your purpose, how does Stoicism help you? Are you forcing or just going with the flow?

I am seeing some similarities in Stoicism and Taoism like the angle of Wu-Wei and the Archer from Stoicism.

Thanks for the answers.


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

4 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

Analyzing Texts & Quotes Did the ancient Stoics really invent cognitive-behavioural therapy?

78 Upvotes

Well, this may sound surprising, but arguably the first major systematic work written on the subject of psychotherapy was the Therapeutics (To Therapeutikon) of Chrysippus of Soli, the third head of the Stoic school, who lived in the 3rd century BCE. Chrysippus was widely regarded as one of the greatest intellectuals of the ancient world -- up there with Aristotle.

The Therapeutikon was the fourth volume of a four-volume work titled On Passions (Peri Pathon), which can be loosely translated as On Psychopathology. It was remarkably influential. Nearly four centuries after it was written, it was still being cited at length as the dominant text in the field by Galen, the personal physician of Marcus Aurelius. Origen, the Church Father, was still discussing it a century after that. So it was considered a masterwork of psychological therapy for at least five hundred years.

Sadly, today it is lost. However, modern scholars, most notably Prof. Teun Tieleman, have attempted to reconstruct its contents based on fragments and testimonia found in other ancient sources. Seneca appears to draw heavily upon it in On Anger. Cicero draws heavily upon it in the Tusculan Disputations. And Galen, who hated Stoicism, attacks it mercilessly.

Many people today assume that Sigmund Freud was the inventor of psychotherapy. Ironically, Freud didn’t even pioneer modern psychological therapy. He studied therapeutic hypnotism in France at the Nancy School under Bernheim, and at the Salpêtrière in Paris under Charcot. For half a century before Freud, in fact, medical hypnotists had already been pioneering the modern "talking cure."

However, it may surprise many people to learn that psychotherapy existed long before that in the ancient world. The modern compound word "psychotherapy" didn't exist in ancient Greek. But "therapy of the psyche" (therapeia tēs psychēs) was an established technical term for a branch of applied philosophy. Psychotherapy as an institutionalized clinical practice obviously didn't exist in ancient Greece or Rome. However, the concept of a cognitive and philosophical talking cure certainly did.

Although therapeutics of the psyche predates the Stoics, Stoic psychotherapy became its pre-eminent ancient form. It doesn't look much like Freudian psychoanalysis. But you know what it does look quite a lot like? Modern cognitive-behavioural therapy (CBT).

That's not entirely surprising, as Albert Ellis, the original pioneer of CBT (or its main precursor, depending on how you look at it), had read Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus. He quoted the famous line from Epictetus to all of his clients, his students, and in most of his books: "People are disturbed not by events but by their judgments about them." That's not a minor aspect of Stoic psychotherapy or CBT — it's pretty much the central theoretical premise of both.

So what did Chrysippus' Stoic psychotherapy actually look like? Well, I'm working on a book about it right now. It would be a lot to write up in a single post, unfortunately! It's sometimes said that "CBT" should really be a plural ("CBTs") because there are lots of different cognitive and behavioural therapies today. Ancient Stoic psychotherapy is not identical to any one of them (although it clearly has a cousin in Ellis' Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy or REBT). Rather, it contains concepts and practices that span several different models of modern CBT.

The conceptualization of emotions in terms of specific cognitions is central. Socratic questioning — surprise, surprise! — is important. Alignment of behaviour with core values is integral to any "virtue ethic", especially Stoicism. Mindfulness (prosoche) is foundational.

Crucially, the Stoics developed a sophisticated two-phase model of emotion that directly debunks the popular myth that Stoicism is about suppressing our feelings:

  1. The Involuntary First Movement (Proto-Passions): The Stoics recognized that our initial reaction to a trigger is not yet a full emotion, but an automatic reflex they called a proto-passion (propatheia). When you are insulted or startled, your heart races, your muscles tense, and an alarming thought flashes into your awareness. Seneca explains that this primitive surge is completely natural, involuntary, and morally indifferent. You cannot stop it through willpower alone, and the Stoics never expected you to.
  2. The Voluntary Second Movement (Assent): The actual passion (pathos) only occurs if we consciously endorse that initial impression — giving it our voluntary agreement, or what the Stoics called synkatathesis.

This pre-eminent Stoic therapeutic concept is often obscured by translation. Synkatathesis is usually translated as "assent," but psychologically it functions almost identically to what modern therapists in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) call cognitive fusion. It means becoming so completely caught up in a thought that we mistake our internal impression for external reality and allow it to dictate our behaviour. Seneca also describes it as "yielding" or "surrendering" to an irrational thought, and being "swept away" by its force.

Stoic therapy is therefore based in something akin to cognitive defusion — learning to step back from our initial impressions, recognize them as mere mental events, and withhold our assent. In the Enchiridion, Epictetus advises that the moment an upsetting impression strikes, our first move should be to tell it: "You are just an impression [an automatic thought], and not at all the thing you claim to represent." Stoic philosophical questioning wasn't an academic debate; it was a practical tool to create cognitive distance and break our fusion with irrational thoughts.

The Stoics considered two types of belief to be central to stressful emotions, especially anger:

  • A primary appraisal about how bad or harmful something is: "This man's actions have injured me!"
  • A secondary appraisal about how one should respond: "I must retaliate and punish him!"

This ancient formulation is remarkably similar to Richard Lazarus's seminal cognitive model of stress and coping, where emotions are driven by a primary appraisal of threat and a secondary appraisal of coping resources.

In On Anger, Seneca goes further and explicitly frames these two appraisals as rigid "ought" or "should" beliefs: the demand that one ought not to have been injured, joined to the demand that one ought to exact revenge.

The role of rigid demands, or "musts," in Stoic psychotherapy is strikingly prescient of Albert Ellis's REBT and the "tyranny of the shoulds". While modern culture frequently glorifies "righteous anger," Seneca and Ellis both recognized that all anger is founded on these rigid, irrational demands. When we demand that people must never treat us unfairly, and that we must make them suffer when they do, we abandon reason and step into what Seneca called a "temporary madness". (Remember, though, that the Stoics viewed the initial involuntary flash of anger, the proto-passion, as natural, harmless, and indifferent.)

Chrysippus also warned Stoic therapists that when a person is in the acute grip of an emotional crisis, you shouldn't lecture them on high-level Stoic dogma. You soothe the immediate inflammation first by working within their existing worldview before attempting deeper cognitive restructuring. Some evidence suggests Chrysippus believed that it was easier to challenge the secondary judgment, about how one should act, when someone is angry, and to leave disputation of the primary judgment, about how awful something is, until the anger has abated.

So, did Chrysippus invent CBT? Not in the strict sense of inventing a modern clinical practice. But the cognitive architecture of CBT was being systematically mapped out in Athens well over two thousand years ago. And while modern CBT provides invaluable remedial tools to extinguish an acute flare-up of anger, ancient Stoic psychotherapy offers something even bigger: a complete, preventative philosophy of life designed to build genuine emotional resilience. CBT is largely remedial, in other words, and usually a temporary or time-limited practice. Stoicism is preventative, and provides a lasting, indeed, permanent philosophy of life.


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

New to Stoicism Enthrallment

2 Upvotes

Hello I have been reading through On The Shortness Of Life by Seneca and though I enjoy the writing and have been learning a lot from stoicism in general but there is a element of it that I have had a tough time absorbing. It is the critique of things that feel so very human to me and a part of this life that makes it so valuable. That is passions. I understand when referred to by the ancient stoics they refer to our more carnal and indulgent desires like gluttony, sex, Etc.(I also understand that Seneca is considered by many a hypocrite and that some of the things he said are to be taken with a grain of salt but I am speaking a little more generally) but they also seemingly critique things like throwing yourself completely into art, history, music, hosting, and several other things that I find I have a deep connection with that is more than me simply giving into indulgent habits. I understand that these texts were written in an old and very different world but I can’t help getting stuck when I get to sections of texts like this. Especially with Seneca. It seems like he goes down the list of everything that can be enjoyed by humanity and casts it all down as useless and it creates a lot of conflict in my mind around stoicism.

Another thing that I have difficulty comprehending, that was more common in Discourses which I also read recently, was this view that weeping for the loss of those you love is also a thing to be avoided and something not good for reasonable thinking. This is something that I could just be taking at face value and perhaps Epictetus is critiquing the refusal of letting your reason still control your action through painful experiences and thoughts instead of falling into a a puddle of tears and refusing to swim out but I still feel like it need some assistance with understanding.

This is just a more personal thing but I think weeping is one of the greatest gifts we have as people. I am grateful to have things to weep for in life. When someone I love dies I have reason to weep because I have lost someone so valuable to me that there is nothing that can be done to fill that hole in my heart left by their absence and all that is left to do is to submit to a state of pure feeling and to weep. Of course I won’t let that cloud over my own virtue and reasonable thinking but weeping is something that I think makes us so human.

I remain open minded to all advice and I do not wish to poke a hole in stoicism or anything because I think it is a beautiful philosophy and it has already changed my life for the better. I only seek the words of one wiser than me to clarify what I may be misunderstanding. Thank you !


r/Stoicism • • 4d ago

Stoicism in Practice Stoicism and practical things like finding a new job.

23 Upvotes

Since I am a bit newer to stoicism, I keep having so many questions. Hope it's okay to discuss here.

I currently am looking for a new job (after a layoff, corporate, tech PR/comms), and at the same time I'm learning/reading stoicism as I feel like I need some guidance in life, otherwise it's difficult. Stoicism seems to make most sense to me, I find it to be quite clear. I read and then I kind of understand what to do.

And lately, or I guess today specifically after receiveing yet another rejection letter, I've been wondering... how can I better apply the stoic principles to looking for/getting a new job?

It is a thing I both can and can not control, right? I can put in the honest diligent work (searching and applying) and hope in the end it works out for me but I cannot control the outcome. But you see, when you keep being rejected it's difficult to be chill about it.

You see, also, the job market is tough yes, and I do believe I am not delusional about myself - I have certain strengths but also I'm not like wow amazing, and it's not like any company would chase me...no, I am quite average, really.

I like this food banquet comparison - like don't be obsessed with getting your plate asap just wait for your turn. But so do I just wait for a new job? I mean keep applying and waiting... What if it doesn't arrive anytime soon? Do I convince myself that the fate decided that it's better this way?

Anyway, sorry, this may read chaotic but at least it's not AI, but I guess what I am asking is... how to keep the upbeat and go-getter attitude amidst all this rejection?


r/Stoicism • • 5d ago

The New Agora The Agora: Daily Open Thread

3 Upvotes

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

  1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
  2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
  3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
  4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.


r/Stoicism • • 5d ago

New to Stoicism Do I really need to identify with a philosophy?

0 Upvotes

I’m a naturally happy, optimistic person who genuinely enjoys life. I don’t really identify as a Stoic or a Nihilist.

Someone suggested that Epicureanism might suit me better.

But do I even need to identify with any philosophy? Can’t I just enjoy life and develop my own way of thinking?

I’m curious what you guys think.


r/Stoicism • • 5d ago

New to Stoicism How to use stoicism to cope with minority stress?

0 Upvotes

So as a new stoic I try to focus on what I can control and not on what I can’t…

Easier said than done

I am a social animal, and being treated as a constant scapegoat/political target (I’m trans) is destroying my mental health to the point where it’s also bringing down my physical health

I think my reaction is human

However it is unproductive

I try to ignore on what I can’t control, but my human instincts (social animal) are difficult to suppress

How do I achieve the same “inner peace” as that one Roman guy that just chilled as the court was deciding if he’d be executed or exiled? (Forgot his name)
Like it’s easy to say “don’t care” and a lot harder to actually not care

I would like clarify that I understand my instincts make me human, I’d just like to stop being a slave to my instincts

Are there like exercises or techniques I can do to improve my Dichotomy of Control?
What do you personally do?

Thank you for your help