r/etymology • • 2h ago

Discussion Stumped by the word “fagot” in “Les Miserables”

13 Upvotes

I am reading Les Mis, the original translation by Charles Wilbour. One of the sentences is “I know that man. He is a fagot.” The word is in italics and at the bottom of the page it states the word means “former convict.” I can’t find any evidence to support this claim. everything I am finding online points to the etymology of the word being ”a bundle of twigs used as kindling for a fire.” I am curious if you experts can help me out! thanks


r/etymology • • 2h ago

Question What languages other than English went through a great vowel shift?

6 Upvotes

This is pretty self explanatory, what languages besides English went through a change in their vowels and what words and sounds did that vowel shift affect?


r/etymology • • 7h ago

Cool etymology The idea behind ichi-go ichi-e appears earlier than the familiar four-character phrase.

Thumbnail
3 Upvotes

r/etymology • • 7h ago

Cool etymology Nahuatl etymologies - ask me

Thumbnail
2 Upvotes

For example - no, avocado does not mean "testicle" in Nahuatl. At least not anymore than nut, means testicle in English.

Indeed it can be reconstructed to proto-Nahuatl as *yewaka in the meaning "avocado".


r/etymology • • 34m ago

Question Need help finding the origin of an expression I use.

• Upvotes

I regularly use an expression "fizzle fazzle foo", usually with the meaning of "chaotic and indescribable", for example: "after the day I've had I'm feeling all fizzle fazzle foo" or "this whole situation is all gestures wildly fizzle fazzle foo." Someone recently asked if it is from something, like a movie or book, and I immediately said yes, although I have no idea where from or when I started using it. After searching online for a while I cannot find an obvious origin.

I am wondering if 1. Anyone else uses it and in a similar context and 2. If anyone knows where it might have come from.


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Cool etymology How the word for woman in Serbian ( žena) is a cognate to Hindi/Urdu (zanana)

27 Upvotes

Both cognates inherited the word through reconstructed Proto-Indo European: gʷḗn-, meaning "woman".

Serbian and many other Slavic languages like Polish ( żona ) inherited it through Proto-Slavic : žena (woman).

During the Mughal Period as the Persian language influenced the Indian sub-continent Urdu and Hindi had adopted the word "zanana" through classical Persian  زنانه (zanāna) which is composed of zan ( زن ) meaning woman and -âne (ـانه) a suffix that functions much the same as -ly does in English forming adjectives describing actions, concept or human beings.

So quite literally it means womanly or feminine. But the word zanana in this specific context went through nominalization and was originally a much longer form Sarāy-e zanāna (the house pertaining to women/women quarters) and began to shorten over time to just zanāna.

Lastly, both these words are cognates through PIE to English "queen".


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Question Shingles

99 Upvotes

Currently have shingles the disease (0/5 stars, do not recommend) and wondering how we got a word that means both a nerve infection and plates on a roof.


r/etymology • • 7h ago

Funny A brilliant phonetic coincidence with the name "Maltesers

0 Upvotes
  • Body Text: I was thinking about the chocolate brand Maltesers today. Even though Forrest Mars named them after malted milk and "palate teasers" back in 1936, the name works perfectly as a modern phonetic pun.If you break down how it sounds, it literally tells you exactly what the product does: "Melt-easy." Given that their main marketing slogan is "the lighter way to enjoy chocolate" because they dissolve so quickly, it’s an incredibly fitting linguistic coincidence
    • Malt -> Melt
    • Eser -> Easy
  • "Melt-easy." Given that their main marketing slogan is "the lighter way to enjoy chocolate" because they dissolve so quickly, it’s an incredibly fitting linguistic coincidence…just me lol?

r/etymology • • 1d ago

Question Why did Old English have eart for þu (modern archaic thou art) unlike German/Dutch?

10 Upvotes

r/etymology • • 1d ago

Discussion Brygge-Norwegian for both brew and wharf.

Thumbnail etymologyexplorer.com
16 Upvotes

Seeing “brygge” used in current Norwegian (Oslo) as both a wharf (Arten Brygge) and brewery (Amundsen Bryggeri). Both go back to old Norse for “carry” which kind of makes sense for a wharf. More so for bridge or brig. Not seeing how brewing comes into play.


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Cool etymology Rabat: a rabbit hole

15 Upvotes

The other day I (an ESL speaker) drew a total blank trying to recall the English word "discount" and all that came to my mind was the German/Swedish equivalent, Rabatt. I got interested in the latter word's etymology, which led to something of a rabbit hole.

  1. German Rabatt "discount", cognate with English "rebate", a false friend of sorts
  2. From Archaic Italian rabbatto
  3. Deverbal from Italian rabbattere, French rabattre "to make something lower, pull down, shut"
  4. From re+abattre; the re being a derivational prefix without a particular meaning here
  5. From French abattre "to butcher, cut down, fall down"
  6. From Late Latin abbattere "to strike down"; see also Italian abbattere with a ton of related meanings
  7. From ad+battere; the ad functions here as an intensifying verb prefix
  8. From Latin batto, battuo "to fence, strike"
  9. Ultimately either from Proto-Indo-European *bʰedʰh₂- ("to stab, dig"), or a separate root *bʰat- ("to hit");

Going forward in time again, this is the root of the English noun and verb "bat" as well as "batter", "battery", "battered", "battle" etc. via French battre but also "to bate" and "to abate"

  1. From which also "debate"
    • From French debattre "fight"
    • From Latin dis+battere, literally "strike apart";
  2. But not "masturbate" which is a 19th century neologism from manus+turbare "hand-defile"
    • From Latin turbare "to disrupt, trouble, disturb"
    • Probably from Ancient Greek τύρβη (túrbē, “tumult, disorder, turmoil”), from which also ultimately "turbulence", "turbine", "turbo-", "perturb", etc.
    • From Proto-Indo-European *(s)twerH- "to rotate, twirl, move around" from which also ultimately at least "storm" and "twirl".
  3. And apparently, maybe unexpectedly, also not the root of the verb and noun "beat" which are of Germanic origin
    • From Old English bēatan "to beat, pound, strike, lash, dash, thrust, hurt, injure"
    • From Proto-West Germanic *bautan
    • From Proto-Germanic *bautaną ("to push, strike"), with the ultimate origin uncertain.

r/etymology • • 1d ago

Cool etymology Etymology trivia - Arabic origin

Thumbnail
3roads.xyz
10 Upvotes

Here’s this week’s etymology question from 3Roads.xyz.

In architecture, an X is a small recessed section of a room or an arched opening in a wall, partially enclosed by vertical elements such as walls, pillars, or balustrades. In geology, X refers to a steep-sided hollow in an exposed rock face or cliff, typically formed by water erosion in a homogeneous rock type. The term X originates from the Arabic word al-qubbah, meaning “vault.” What is X?


r/etymology • • 15h ago

Question Why has the term 'gay' been reappropriated but the slur 'f*ggot' hasn't?

0 Upvotes

I'm doing some research into the etymology of these terms and if the origins have impacted why some terms have been reclaimed and others haven't. I would appreciate if i could get some more information to how changing social attitudes of these terms have caused new meanings to emerge throughout the etymology.


r/etymology • • 2d ago

Cool etymology “Midriff” is literally “middle belly,” and the “riff” part may be a distant cousin of Latin “corpus.”

115 Upvotes

I always assumed “midriff” was an opaque word, but it breaks down pretty cleanly. It comes from Old English midhrif: midd “middle” + hrif “belly, womb.”

Hrif goes back to Proto-Germanic *hrifiz, with cognates like Old Frisian rif “belly” and Old High German href “body, womb.” It died out in English as a standalone word and survives only as a fossil inside “midriff.”

Further back, *hrifiz is usually traced to PIE *kʷrep- “body, form, appearance.” That same root is the commonly cited source of Latin corpus “body,” which would make “midriff” a very distant relative of corpse.


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Funny Silly origin of sin

1 Upvotes

I apologize if i misremember the way foreign text Is written

Basically do you know the mathematical rule where if you draw a chord in a circle and split It With the diameter, It becomes the shortest side of a right triangle, or sin?

Basically the First recorded Discovery of this was in ancient india, where It was called Jia (literally "Rope")

Years later the arabs collected those books and adapted this knowledge without changing the names to arab, resulting in the world "jiba"

After this those books where taken to Rome, but written arab, if i understood correctly, doesnt have vowels

So the translation was unsure if the world was jiba=Rope or jabi= a narrow Valley/"sunken" Land

They went With the second and translated It "sinnus"

Jump about a millenia, and in common italian the world was translated to "seno"

So now the world sin shares its written form in italian With boobs


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Question Why are they called “BLANKets”…

0 Upvotes

…when they are almost always adorned with colors or patterns?


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Question tip someone off???

0 Upvotes

can anyone help with the origin of this phrase?


r/etymology • • 2d ago

Media Etymology the card game video game

10 Upvotes

Two years ago I had a successful kickstarter etymology card game. Now it's a video game!

https://www.etymologygame.com/


r/etymology • • 1d ago

Question Anyone else heard: "When pigs fly, we'll shoot our bacon" ?

0 Upvotes

I'm aware of other idioms and phrases that have lengthened, supposed "original" versions, such as "curiosity killed the cat / but satisfaction brought it back" or "blood is thicker than water // the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." People have been editing and twisting common idioms around for ages I'm sure.

My dad says, "When pigs fly, we'll shoot our bacon," is how he was taught. He tells me he probably learned this from his mom. I've tried looking it up but this addition to "when pigs fly" seems completely original or at least undocumented.

Has anyone ever heard this phrase or something close to it before, or did my family just completely make it up?


r/etymology • • 2d ago

OC, Not Peer-Reviewed Literary Roots – All answers are adjectives derived from names of authors or characters

30 Upvotes

$200: This adjective describes when a city (or two cities?) has a dark underbelly of squalid poverty, like in 19th Century Victorian London. What is Dickensian?

$400: This adjective alluding to pleasure gained from cruelty or violence has its roots in the works of a 16th-17th century French nobleman. What is Sadistic?

$600: This adjective can used to describe the type of totalitarian oppressive dystopia evident in a 1949 classic book. What is Orwellian?

$800: The word for this type of idealistic impractical behavior comes from the name of a 16th-17th Spanish author’s delusional (but chivalrous) character. What is Quixotic?

$1000: This word is appropriate to describe being stuck in a maze of senseless bureaucracy or illogical frustrating situations like those in a certain Prague born author’s writing. What is Kafkaesque?


r/etymology • • 3d ago

Question Is "boy how" a thing people say?

58 Upvotes

I feel as though I've heard it. And not in the way of asking a boy how he did something. It would be more exclamatory like, "BOY HOW, that building is TALLL!"

If it's relevant I live in the southern US

I'm not an etymology expert, like I know jack shit about diddly squat when it comes to this stuff, but I thought this might be a relevant question for you guys. I couldn't really find anything on the first page of Google and reddit is more fun anyway.


r/etymology • • 2d ago

Question Is there a link between the French verb ‘(se) blesser’ and the English verb ‘to bless’?

2 Upvotes

According to a web-site called ‘etymonline’ (I am unsure if this is a reliable source or not as am not well-versed in etymology itself), the english comes from a meaning about blood.

‘Middle English blessen, from Old English bletsian, bledsian, Northumbrian bloedsian"to consecrate by a religious rite, make holy, give thanks," from Proto-Germanic \blodison"hallow with blood, mark with blood," from *blotham* "blood" (see blood (n.)). Originally a blood sprinkling on pagan altars.’

— etymonline entry

I know, from personal experience, that the French verb se blesser means to injure or hurt oneself, which one can certainly link to blood, quite easily. Is there an actual link between these words, or is it just happenstance?


r/etymology • • 2d ago

Question Is it known where and when the beginning of the use of "smut" to mean specifically written erotic material as contrasted with other forms began?

2 Upvotes

r/etymology • • 2d ago

Question Very specific and random Scottish linguistic anomaly.

Thumbnail
1 Upvotes

r/etymology • • 2d ago

Question Why does the word “plaque” diverge so much in meaning?

0 Upvotes

ie. plaque on your teeth vs plaque award vs plaque to read (ie. museums)

did they come from the same root?