r/SubredditDrama • u/lore-realm • 17h ago
An r/warcraftlore user goes on a multithread rampage when his understanding of literature is called immature
World of Warcraft has recently released a patch where a relatively big name dies in a raid. This has been met with some loud reactions from the fanbase. Is it Blizzard writing like uninspired bureaucrats again, or fans having negative media literacy? Who knows, as it's always a coin flip, and it's also often both.
But one thing for sure is that it created some lively discussion. r/warcraftlore is a self-explanatory subreddit. While there are interesting lore discussions there, its userbase also contains a big amount of anti-fans -- people who used to like the story but have come to persistently hate it and very loudly. Many of these are criticized by other users in the sub, with it often being mentioned that a lot of these anti-fans haven't played the game in years or don't pay attention to the story of quest texts.
One such occurance happens when a user creates a thread titled: The Writing never needed to be good - It just needed to be BADASS.
It starts with:
People who are annoyed at the constant, but rightful, criticisms of wow's narrative and EVERYTHING in the story - always say "well, warcraft was never nuanced really.. well warcraft wasn't ever that complex."
I would say, yes you have a point. But the biggest point that's missing - is that it's not ever HEROIC or COOL anymore.
It's never a story focused of OVERCOMING ODDS and displaying GREAT DEEDS and it's never presented as HOLY SHIT, BAD ASS SACRIFICE. SLASH HEADS OFF OF THIS GUY. KILL ENEMY TO SAVE FRIEND IN THE SHOT.
And after some more elaboration of the same nature, it ends with:
People just want to see our heroes being heroes and do cool shit. With some grit. With some ACTION.
A-C-T-I-O-N. HOW IS THIS SOMEHOW A DEBATE? HOOWWWWW!?
MAKE THE MARY SUES DO COOL SHIT, MAKE THEM LOSE A EYE OR LEG. THEN MAKE THEM GAIN A NEW TRAIT AND MAKE THEM SAY COOL SHIT. MAKE THEM FACE CONSEQUENCES.
AND DO IT WITHIN, i dont know, 3 hours? It's not insane. LET US SEE GROWTH. LET US SEE ACTION. LET US SEE IT. NOT HEAR IT. FUCK ME.
Some users digress.
+ Sorry this isn't the incel 14 year old subreddit
++ (OP) discord incel 14 year olds have more interesting thoughts than whatever 30 people wrote for WoW for the past decade and a half.
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+ To be fair, Warcraft never had a good writing. I've played whole wc1, wc2, wc3 games recently and I was like "yeah, I see why I liked it when I was 8-14yo, but now this is just cringe". There were some good scenes from the epic fantasy point of view, but nothing felt really good, apart from that (and overall night elf vibes in wc3).
++ (OP) It doesn't need to be high art literature or as song of ice and fire. It just needed "Saving Private Ryan's" level of presentation and action and FUN.
Brutal deaths, heroic sacrifices, fun characters that are likeable and iconic. How have we lost that.
+++ Because:
- Things evolve and change. I'm okay with more complex emotional stuff. I'm not okay with retcons and inconsistency.
- Corporate writing. That's all.
++++ (OP) You know when you dont clean your home, it "evolves and change" is it for the better? No.
Complex Emotional stuff? Like what? Insecure brother and mary sue sister? Wow, VERY complex.
Thousands of years of war solved in girl's hangout weekend? So COMPLEX. WOWWW.
A villain who has ZERO motivations other than "i felt unsafe as a cosmic entity who can teleport anywhere and be anywhere i want." and must now devour the world and become a Supereme Deity.
That's your "more complex emotional stufff" ? You lost me at ALL of that bullshit.
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+ Was Liadrin not a complete badass in the fight? Was Arator not a complete badass in the immolation cinematic?
++ (OP) Imagine telling the entire story in that tone. We like it when warcraft is back to itself, not obssessing over "emotionally conversations that you hear in a therapy gathering".
When Arthas scorned Uther for not following his orders, it was painful. You can just feel how betrayed they BOTH felt. Less is More, is STRONGLY missing from the creatives.
+++ In the OP you say it's never heroic or cool. I point out you're wrong and now you switch to it not being entirely heroic and cool. Weird.
"emotionally conversations that you hear in a therapy gathering".
For those of us that don't attend "therapy gatherings", what does this mean?
++++ As I've come to learn, it's best not to expect anything other than CAPS LOCK and unintelligible complaints.
+++++ (OP) (posts a long rant, ending with) Explainyourself. How this is so nuanced and complex compared to Arthas and Illidan, and Thrall's founding of Durotar. Please, I want to hear you out, genuinely.
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One user particularly has an extended critique of OP's argument and attitude:
This is genuinely one of the most embarrassing attempts at literary criticism I've encountered on here.
You've managed to reduce your entire understanding of storytelling to whether something makes you shout "HOLY SHIT, BADASS". Your idea of character development is apparently someone losing an eye, getting a new outfit and decapitating an enemy. And then, astonishingly, you invoke 'show, don't tell', a principle you clearly don't understand, as though it means characters should stop talking about their motivations and start hitting things. Illidan's transformation has meaning precisely because of his emotional turmoil, resentment and relationships. Remove those and you've got a purple man eating a skull before killing a demon. Congratulations, you've stripped the scene of everything that made it interesting.
And Warlords of Draenor? Really? An expansion whose admittedly spectacular cinematics accompanied a narrative so incoherent that Grommash, having initiated an attempted conquest of Draenor, gets to triumphantly declare that Draenor is free? Apparently, none of that matters provided someone delivers a sufficiently cool one-liner.
What's particularly dire is that you're presenting an almost comically adolescent preference as some fundamental truth about Warcraft. Nobody objects to spectacle, violence or heroic sacrifice. I adore all three. But the notion that emotional complexity is merely irritating filler between sword fights is precisely the sort of opinion I'd expect from a fourteen-year-old who thinks maturity means more blood and louder shouting.
There's something profoundly sad about the possibility that you've spent decades consuming fiction without ever developing your appreciation of it beyond what you thought was cool as a teenager.
After this thread, OP creates yet another thread titled: People who like the retail story and claim it's "complex and nuanced", which is sitting at 0 upvotes as of this moment.
He rants there quite a bit, starting with:
Explain to me how?
And ends with:
Explainyourself. How this is so nuanced and complex compared to Arthas and Illidan, and Thrall's founding of Durotar. Please, I want to hear you out, genuinely.
Yes, he copy+pasted this post body to a previous comment I linked (time stamps confirm it's not the other way around).
Some comments from the new thread:
+ Your first paragraph proves your own ignorance and desire to complain.
This is not me defending blizz or the writers. But showcasing your inability to consume the story in any way… it is factually incorrect and your dismissiveness tells me more about you than is needed.
++ (OP) I wrote what literally happens in the game.
+++ You don't.
Everything you complain about in this post is either false, or is explained in game.
Maybe not as well as it could have been, but it is touched on.
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The extended commenter appears, and comments rather longly on why they disagree. However, it starts with this edit (which I can confirm to be true):
+ Edit: everything from OP is appearing as "deleted" to me, so I'm not sure if I've been blocked, or the post has been deleted. I can't respond to any comments, but thank you for the kind words.
++ Pretty sure they blocked you.
Great response. Well written and nuanced.
++ (OP) Yeah and those are your answers. But they dont reflect what's actually being shown. You've admitted its all shit, and yet you still stand for it as something debateable. Stop it and accept whatever you're trying to salvage this entire time, was in fact garbage.
+++ Most of the things they are talking about are 100% in game mate.
It isn't hidden or anything.
And this person hasn't even said "it is all shit" either.
Are your reading comprehension that low?
++++ He doesnt want to discuss, he just wants to have his tantrum. We should just ignore him
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+ "disney"
You had no intention to hear anyone out.
++ (OP) When someone gets offended at 1 word. You had no intentions of anything beyond tribal behaviour.
+++ Who's offended? You can tell someone's intentions by the language they use. If you wanted an open and good faith discussion your entire post wouldn't have been worded the way it was. You also proved my point by completely dismissing the person who succinctly answered your points.
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A commenter tries to explain the difference between disliking or critiquing vs. losing yourself in an outrage.
+ you sound like you are in a rage, man. And mind you I am no retail enjoyer either.
And uh... I don't know. People find those small things to like and that gets them to accept the whole package, I suppose. Which is fair, it's how I approach Warcraft most of the time. Like cutting away and ignoring that strange looking side of the potato. That being said each potato after one another seem to have that strangeness increase.
Criticizing blizzard writing is one thing but idk if criticizing people's taste is called for in this instance.
++ If you see someone eating bricks, you ask "hey why aren't you just eating food"
They go "but bricks are delicious."
You would call them, a fool.
In this instance, you're a 3rd person who goes "Hey man, just let him eat bricks. Like... cmon dont be a dick." And that's why we have 10+ years of shitty warcraft storylines LOL. Because enough people went
"It's okay to eat bricks. Shhh.. it's okay.. just swallow bricks. We support it."
+++ And I do call them a fool, but I try not to go farther than that. The people who enjoy retail lore know what it became over the years and are sticking by it, there is nothing more that I can say that isn't just being plain fucking mean to them and idk I don't want that for some reason that even I can't discern.
I don't understand it, but it's what it is. I know I stick by what I like and have not much faith in Blizzard in the first place since Legion ended. I don't even play retail, therefore I don't get mad at it anymore unless it's so bad it makes me turn my head around and mark it as such.
++++ (OP) the 30 people who likes this garbage because they have nothing else but this game as a identity/hobby are offended when people criticise, rightfully, that it sucks and that they deserve better storylines, it's OKAY to let things be bad and not speak up.
Hmm.. i think the wow's culture really have seeped into people. Cowardice is the new virture for these people. The Story itself has made them into cowards like the story's premise LOL. Infantilized adults, who love an infantilized universe.
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Some singular comments:
+ why should I explain anything to someone like you, especially in a manner you asked them? Those are questions with very obvious answers, from them I see you have no clue about story and you do not have media literacy
+ Explain to me why anyone should bother when it's pretty apparent that you wouldn't be open minded enough to consider, let alone accept, any explanation that was offered to you.
+ “Please, I want to hear you out, genuinely.” => Proceeds to block people who give proper and nuanced answers
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The situation is still very fresh and ongoing, and the subreddit is small, so do not comment in that thread. Pissing in the popcorn shall result in Guldan stealing your fleshly appandage.