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Did not know this existed. Could not have said it better.

On October 14, 1939: Journal of American Medical Association gives AA Big Book unfavorable review.

1939 AMA BOOK REVIEW

JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION

Vol. 113(16), October 14, 1939

ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS. The story of how more than one hundred men have recovered from alcoholism. Cloth. Price $3.50. 400 pp.. New York: Works Publishing Company. 1939.

The seriousness of the psychiatric and social problem represented by addiction to alcohol is generally underestimated by those not immediately familiar with the tragedies in the families of victims or the resistance addicts offer to any effective treatment. Many psychiatrists regard addiction to alcohol as having a more pessimistic prognosis than schizophrenia. For many pears the public was beguiled into believing that short courses of enforced abstinence and catharsis in "institutes" and "rest homes" would do the trick, and now that the failure of such temporizing has become common knowledge, a considerable number of other forms of quack treatment have sprung up.

The book under review is a curious combination of organizing propaganda and religious exhortation. It is in no sense a scientific book, although it is introduced by a letter from a physician who claims to know some of the anonymous contributors who have been "cured" of addiction to alcohol and have joined together in an organization which would save other addicts by a kind of religious conversion. The book contains instructions as to how to intrigue the alcoholic addict into the acceptance of divine guidance in place of alcohol in terms strongly reminiscent of Dale Carnegie and the adherents of the Buchman ("Oxford") movement. The one valid thing in the book is the recognition of the seriousness of addiction to alcohol Other than this, the book has no scientific merit or interest.

I'm doing the best I can I made it through and didn't use IV been clean for over a month and still getting thoughts

I have never taken suboxone before, or had an opioid problem before 7. Before anyone gets on me about the subs… this is my last resort. I’ve tried quitting handful of times, WD always lasts over a week before I can’t take it anymore and I give in. I’ve maxed out all of my credit cards. At least my insurance will cover the subs, it won’t cover 7. I’m terrified of being dependent for life, but at this point I’ve had to accept that I will not get off 7 any other way.

Everyone says something very different about PWD. I’m scared. I can’t really afford to feel like shit longer than a day, that’s another thing, if I miss one more day of work over this I’m gonna lose my job. I just wanna feel normal again. The doctor only prescribed 16 mg a day for 7 days, but I do have another appt in 4 days. I have no clue how I’m really supposed to take it, doctor wasn’t really clear and made it seem like I should just take two a day. Idk what I should start with, or at what intervals I should increase it, or how long I should give it before going for more, or what to do if I do end up with PWD. I pray that doesn’t happen. I’ve resorted to this bc I cannot take the suffering anymore.

I’ve got clonidine, Ativan, and hydroxyzine to curb any extra suffering. I’m a little nervous bc I know I’ll wanna take the Ativan but doctor made it seem like I only have to worry about increased side effects, not my heart stopping or anything. I’m totally in need of some sleep if it knocks me out, but I have no clue what my limit should be before I risk harming myself from taking both.

Everyone says 12-24 hours. That’s a huge gap. I’m so afraid of not waiting long enough. And if that happens, how long will I suffer? What do I do? How can I be sure that doesn’t happen to me? At what point can I know I’m gonna be okay by if 1) I experience no PWD, or if 2) I do experience PWD. Like will I be okay in 24, 36, 48, 72 hours after my last 7 dose? I just took my last. Hopefully. Trying to get over it this weekend so I don’t miss anymore work.

Any guidance or experience is appreciated. Always had addiction problems, never anticipated my DOC would be an opioid.

Hi Guys, I am in Melbourne Australia. I am an ex AA and NA member. Ive been "relapsing" for over 5 years on and off since i left after long term abstinence. I also have mental health issues and trauma which make recovery tricky and AA/NA only looks at the drinking/behaviour, not the other issues. Are there any support groups that support this type of thing??? I need to address both issues and i dont believe my addiction is a disease. but i do beieve i am addicted and it needs treatment.

I need advice on stopping my cocaine use. Whenever important life stuff is coming up I binge. Stay up all night. Drag my partner and friends down with me. I hate being along on the comedown so I stretch it out as far as I can. I feel so dumb. I’ll do it, hate myself , do it hate myself. Such a cycle that has its hold on me. How can I stop? Why am I searching for answers on Reddit? Dang

It was the guy who said, "I used to be an alcoholic, and now I'm not." And it was for a luxury inpatient treatment center. This was more than twenty years ago on the USA and before I even developed an Alcohol Use Disorder. I remember thinking, why doesn't everyone just go learn how to not be alcoholics anymore instead of saying they still are even years after they quit? Maybe they wouldn't need to drink so much if they stopped reminding themselves. My dad and family members did AA and I had to go to Alateen occasionally. Haaateed it! None of them ever recovered.

Fast forward to me sitting in my first AA meeting after a week in the hospital with pancreatitis twenty years later. It was a women's meeting and I was so lost and desperate, needing a way out so badly. I remember thinking everyone there seemed sad and weird to comfort me with the, "you've got a disease for the rest of your life", like I should just be resigned to it and let it run its course. But I had just beat cancer, an actual terminal disease, a disease I never introduced myself as. So I'm thinking, I want to beat this too. I didn't want what they had. I wanted what the guy who wasn't an alcoholic anymore had. I asked where the meetings for that program are. They told me he was a liar and it was impossible. So I left and just kept drinking, that's what alcoholics do. I went back occasionally and tried, really tried. It made everything so much worse and more confusing so I stuck with all kinds of therapy.

Now that I've overcome addiction and no longer have an Alcohol Use Disorder, I realized I had something even better than that guy from Malibu had. I was never "an alcoholic" to begin with. I was just a really wounded person who needed lots of love, compassion, therapy and education to learn skills and beliefs I was never taught. Once I addressed my CPTSD, my depression and anxiety, there wasn't a lot I needed to escape anymore. I am not cancer, I am not depression, I am not trauma, I am not anxious, I am not addiction. Those are just things I've experienced, healed and moved on from.

I looked up that luxury recovery center, it's still going strong. It says they don't push AA but Use SMART and Refuge Recovery along with mental health treatment and medication. So basically, aside from the all inclusive luxury resort, we have access to the same treatment. I did finally find my way to SMART years ago. I wish that guy would have just recommended it back then and saved me years on the recovery-go-round! LOL

I was just thinking back to that commercial's statement having such a massive impact on my brain that I never forgot the possibility of ridding myself of the whole damn problem once and for all and moving on, almost like it never happened. I'm so glad I believed I could, because that one belief kept me curious enough to find the answers instead of resigned to stay trapped in church basements for the rest of my life declaring that "I am an alcoholic", despite all evidence to the contrary. "Alcoholic/Addict" is not even a diagnosis, but a derogatory slang label they took out of medical books along with "idiot", "retarded", "imbecile" and "inebriate". "Alcoholism" is also not a diagnosis, neither is "Addiction". It's all recognized as a treatable mental disorder now. And although it doesn't roll off the tongue, it's much more accurate and appropriate to understand and state that what we are dealing with is just a "Substance Use Disorder" and we can make order by learning what we need for that. Just my random thoughts and wondered if anyone else remembered it too.

i was taking 5count of lucid tablets for a like a year, not the ones with 7 but just the ones with mit.

iam now out of access to them and the wd were starting to get bad, cant sleep, terrible sweats, rls, etc..

i took 32mg of suboxone that i had and it helped but i still feel restless and anxious. i get random goosebumps, im about 3hrs into the suboxone. no more rls, just wondering what some of your experiences are if they are similar and what i should expect once the sub wears off.. thanks for any help

Any real life experiences with dharma recovery?

30 days sober! Im till feeling very tired. Wasnt even a daily drinker...

30 days sober, still very tired. Wasnt a daily drinker?!

Hello!

Im 30 days sober, finally i made it this far. I was drinking like 3 or 4 times a week, for 2 years long maybe. I was drinking like 3 beers a time, 6 glasses. So maybe like 15 tot 18 glasses a week. Had times that i dronk daily, for 1 week every day... But then i didnt liked it anymore. Sometimes i stopped for one week..Im really happy that i made it this far finally.

I dont understand why im still feeling this tired and umotivated even little depressed, anhedonia. I searched a lot on Reddit for people with the same drinking pattern. I know that some people are stil tired even after 30 days. Even running is to much now. I must say that i also use Concerta 36mg, Lexapro 10mg, olanzapine 2.5mg en serequel 12.5mg. And i drinked with these medications to. My question is does this feeling get better?! I want to wake up more refreshed again and want my energy back....

[TL,DR] I need a story to tell my blue collar asshole coworkers about an injury/surgery that I could say why Ive been on short term. HR knows so this isnt a fraud thing. Good luck to you all.

5 years ago I did a typical 21 day AA based rehab with no personal phones, filled by several weeks of intensive outpatient/online. Immediately after returning me and my bartender girlfriens(big surprise) and some family betrayals of my privacy had be stepping off the zoom meetings to kiss the bottle.

Fast forward to now Im married to a great girl who is educatdd and has a great job. Been drinking the whole time, but it started impacting work again. And last week I woke up and told her I had to figure something out, but not the 21 day lock down. I didnt want my family or ex wife to find out bc she'd be shitty about the kids.

I will be starting an outpatient in person intensive program as soon as I get out of this detox. The great news my insurance, short term, and supplementals will cover of this.

I work in a very masculine, blue collar, aviation job(dont worry Im not a pilot.) And we bust balls amd they all gossip like high schoolers so I'm trying to have a believable story about why I was on short term for a cpuple of months. Some kind of surgery that would require a good bit of healing and physical rehab. HR knows where I'm at so Im not lying on that level. Just to the fellas I work next to everyday. I need some ideas folks.

And of course best of luck to you all in your recovery.

If someones powerless over alcohol how are they supposed to do AA instead of drinking?

It appears to me, that the program appears to "work" to keep someone sober, as long as they actively choose to do the program, which requires you to stop drinking or using to begin with. "it works if you work it" etc etc...

If someone drinks at any point they have to start the steps all over again.

The whole "willpower avails us nothing" seems contradicted by the hundreds of AA shares where they are grateful they were "willing" to do the program instead of drinking...

I liked the Doug Stanhope bit about how one of the worst parts of AA is that it doesnt even have a consistent dogma, its so sprayshot and made up on the spot it makes Scientology look legitimate.

I wasnt too sure what a "good program" is either. In any AA meeting theres a large variety of ways people "work the program"... ten different AA members youll get ten different answers of what a good program is.

Is it doing a nightly every night? Calling 5 alcoholics a day? Having 10 sponsees? Going to three meetings a day? I remember many people in the meetings who just hung out like it was a social club and didnt have a sponsor or do the program at all, some of which stayed sober just fine.

That mixed with "your best thinking got you here" sort of sets people up to never trust themselves again, yet you have to sort of trust your judgement that you are doing the program the right way.

In the context of full abstinent sobriety(which i might get some flak here for saying, I see zero downsides to this approach, at least its simple) it appears to me 100% of the people who stop doing drugs/alcohol and stick with that stay sober.

Found all of it a huge waste of time personally, I was heavily involved for 3-4 years. Ofc some people just like the meetings, I don't tell this to AA people or share my views too publicly, its a religious testimony to them they believe all of their well being depends on and if they dont see it the way i do, hats off to them hope they stay sober and well.

The urge is so strong right now and I just passed a drug screen last week to get in a big truck again (this company didn’t test for hair follicle! Yay me..)I promised I would never get spun again, but the dopamine urges are SOO strong! I can’t lose my wife, our apartment, everything we’ve built! I know one random drug test and my only source of income enough to provide for us will be gone and we’ll be screwed.

I really need encouragement right now! I know how easy it would be to get it and feel so good again… but it’s all a lie.. still can’t make my brain shut up though! I’m almost 30 and I don’t want to lose my future!

To be clear I don’t have a plan at all. I have been sober for around 2 years with one return to use on the middle. I just find myself thinking about exiting this world peacefully a lot more than I did while drinking. Anyone have any thoughts?

One of them was my ex sponsor. Nothing AA-related, just asked me how things were going and if I was close to driving again (I lost my license in 2022 and get it back in a couple days). He was surprisingly accepting of me leaving the program, and I'm cool staying in contact as long as he doesn't try to recommend re-joining AA.

Now, the other one... He's also aware that I've been out of the program for a few weeks now. He said something along the lines of, "Hey man missed ya at the meeting! Ya gotta come back sometime!" Uhhh, HELL NO. I've made a very firm commitment to never go back. I came back and recommended that we grab a bite sometime, or hit a pool hall in the area soon.

I didn't burn any bridges when I left. My conscience is clean, I made a smooth break, and I'm totally down to stay in contact with this small handful of people as long as AA isn't involved. We don't need to " hit a meetin' " to hang out or catch up.

Just thought I'd share that here lol

I started going into my recovery journey in February. My first rehab had us going to AA meetings, I got out and kept trying to go to meetings but I kept relapsing and was in and out of different rehabs for a few months. Inpatient and outpatient. All of the places I went kept pressing this idea of AA and it just never stuck for me. However I did get a sponsor and we started working the steps. I am a college student and my university has a recovery program and I’ve found it way more helpful than AA ever was. I am now 88 days sober and I did it for me, not AA. I don’t know how to tell my sponsor I want to stop doing step work because I’m not into AA. I really like her but she’s really big into the program, it’s like her whole life. And I know she will look down on me for stopping. I’m just so over the steps and the readings I can’t keep doing it.

hello fellow addicts,

so, 2 days ago I (f26) celebrated 3 years of being clean and sober, I left the rooms a year and something ago and I was kinda thinking about the past 3 years and the things I've been through. after I stepped on my legs, got a job, made friends I kinda realized it's a cult and that I was in a really weak and vulnerable time in my life and that a lot of people took some kind of advantage of that but I'm lucky I wasn't sexually harassed or anything like that (my heart goes out to anyone who was taken advantage of like that). BUT, what I wanted to talk about is the "bragging about sobriety". In early recovery I told SO MANY PEOPLE that I'm sober and that I have issues drinking 🤡 I don't wanna say AA/NA made me do it but I was surrounded with people like that and I thought it's completely normal. I'm having massive retroactive feelings of shame and embarrassment. were you like this in early recovery? how did you deal with the fact that you possibly made it a huge part of your personality? now I don't even feel like mentioning it to people, I just don't drink that's all, just like some people don't smoke I don't drink, I don't consider it a huge win or an accomplishment (although I'm proud of myself for realizing early enough that I had a problem).

Hi, so I finally gathered up the courage to officially stop attending the AA group I started with. While I am sober, I don't want my entire identity wrapped around sobriety and having to force myself to meetings that don't feel beneficial to me.

I had a sponsor who I chose because they were the only one who didn't get all in my face as a newbie and just treated me with kindness and gentle approach. We worked together for about a year and some change. Establishing a lot of trust.

When I realized my time in this stage had pretty much served me as much as I could manage, my sponsor seemed supportive and appreciated my honesty. Didn't jump into the typical rhetoric I was afraid of.

I was recently in a freak accident that resulted in emergency surgery. I reached out because even though we ended our "sponsor/sponsee" relationship, I still felt a connection and felt it was right to keep them in the loop. (accident had nothing to do with drinking btw)

I tried to call. No answer. Sent a text. Received really vague answers.

So now my whole question really is... Was the whole thing just for show? like, "ooh, look at my sponsee doing soo great blahblahblah" until I am not useful anymore?

I feel really hurt by it because, while I feel like AA served me for what it was worth for me, I am sober. I really hoped that out of anyone who could understand where I'm coming from is a Sponsor. I suppose not....

I tore my achilles tendon working out this month and have been bedridden with a boot on, patiently waiting for when I can start PT end of this month.

I’ve been isolated since October 1 in my apartment, so I’ve been talking to a lot of people on my phone so I don’t start talking to the wall out of boredom, one person being my old sponsor from AA.

When I told her about the injury, she told me that my higher power will do for me what I can’t do for myself 🫠💀

Anyone have similar cringe or funny stories of conversations with sponsors that would make absolutely no literal sense in the outside world?

Could use the entertainment right now, thanks yall 👏🏻🤪

I have had serious drug problems in the past and I tend to be able to do anything on occasion other than stimulants and opiates. I am going clubbing this Friday for the first time in a longgggg time and have been having a fit trying to find stims. I know it's self destructive and horrible for me but idk what it is. It's like I can't see myself going to a club without being blackout drunk and on tons of coke, Adderall or vyvanse. I get sweaty and filled with joy from just the thought of doing these things and I want to give in so fucking bad. I have the ability to have moderation with benzos, gabapentin and lyrica, kratom, kanna, alchohol and pretty much every other drug but stimulants draw me in more than anything I have ever felt. There has been times almost once a week for years now where I will consider stealing my girlfriends Adderall prescription. I never have and never will but it scares me that I even consider stooping that low knowing how much it helps my girlfriend and that she needs it. I fight the urge Everytime I have it but I'm freaking out right now messaging every drug dealer I know and friends trying to find shit and I'd rly like some advice to deal with this. The last thing I want is to go backwards. Thank you

sorry if this is not the place to post this but I’m kind of a loss I guess.

I have a family member to whom I am pretty close to, who has been sober via AA for about 2 years.

I have been recovering from trauma for about a year now and they’ve really helped me along the way. I tried doing ACA for about four months after they told me about it. it worked a little bit but mostly just made things worse for me so I left.

they of course told me I wouldn’t be able to recover without it but accepted that I wasn’t going back and didn’t say much about it moving forward.

Upon further reflection on my experiences in the program and trying to follow a 12 step-ish path for recovery I think it is super culty.

I accidentally joined a cult at some point, so I get it can be easy to fall into. I see in them the same things I saw in myself while I was in the cult.

THEYRE entire life revolves around it and well gristly I’m kind of worried about them.

honestly it also has started to effect our relationship a bit as well. they strongly believe that it’s the only way to get better and because they’re so involved just don’t have time or mental energy to put effort into our relationship. considering they’re like the parent I never had it’s taken kind of a toll on me

I at some point expressed my concern to them and they told me they had a supportive community to hold them accountable and help them through things.

im glad they’re sober, they seem happy enough with life but I just wish they would step back and see it for what it is.

they are a bery smart person and I hope they will eventually, but right now I think they’re coping.

im trying to convince myself I’ve done everything I can indirectly telling them im concerned and think they’re coping but they definitely didn’t take me seriously.

I know there is probably nothing more I can do. I kind of just wanted to rant about it

edit: to clarify ACA is basically AA but for trauma. Specifically it’s for people with alcoholic or mentally ill parenrs.

I was forced into abstinence in a locked 9 month long facility at 16 and now (turning 18 in a couple weeks) I’ve decided that I want to take a harm reduction approach. But the program I gradated from tells parents if ur kid even smokes or drinks (I was doing coke Xanax percs Ativan and allat) then u have to kick them out so that they “experience enough pain” and are forced to go back to treatment because the pain and shame is what pushes u to get sober.
Pray for me guys icl idk how this will play out