Hi riders,

I have a theory about Aaric because his POV was the most interesting one for me, and it got me thinking a lot.

Spoilers from here on!

The way he goes straight for Molvic, rejects another dragon (while being undeniably hot doing so, lol), and claims him as his own feels a little weird to me. Sure, being a prince and a royal might have given him a lot of confidence, but he still seemed so sure that Molvic would accept him. It made me wonder if he had precognition abilities even before manifesting his signet.

We still have so much to learn about this world, like Liam and Sloane’s mom being a Rune Master. That’s something entirely different from being a rider or a venin. Maybe Aaric is something different, too.

I’m also really curious about why he told Sloane, “No. Dying.” He emphasized those words while making eye contact with her before leaving. Was he just making an assumption, or did he already know she was going to try unalive herself? Plus, we didn’t get his POV of that moment🤔

Noticed what I think is a fun little reference in Threshing Day.

In Fourth Wing when Mira gives Violet the vest made with Teine's scales she says:

“I happen to know a rider whose powers can make big things very small.” A devious smile plays across her lips. “And smaller things…much, much bigger.”

In Mira's chapter, her friend Cowan says:

"I can't help my height." He jumps, reaching for the closest limb, but comes up short, his fingertips just brushing the bottom of the branch before he lands. "Trust me, if I could spontaneously sprout another couple of inches and catch up to you, I would."

I guess he really wanted those extra inches.

After reading Threshing Day, I’m starting to suspect Sawyer is going to become an antagonist. Not necessarily that he’s the big bad himself, and I’m not suggesting he’ll turn venin, but I wonder if he’ll be connected to the One Who Watches or something.

Sawyer is conspicuously angry in Threshing Day, and Sliseag seems to value that anger. It’s a contrast to his characterisation in the main books, where he’s arguably the squad member we know least about.

There’s also something odd about his bond. Sawyer was apparently a very capable cadet who simply wasn’t chosen at his first Threshing. Except Sliseag reveals he’d already picked Sawyer and apologises for making him wait because he himself wasn’t ready to bond. Why Sawyer, and why the delay? It’s not like he’s one of the marked ones, whose dragons may have had particular reasons for choosing them.

Sawyer also comes from the same province as Lyra, whose account of the wards turned out to be accurate. That could be coincidence, but given the series’ themes, it’s interesting.

Here’s where my theory gets a bit more speculative. RY has said Threshing Day is the first account we can trust. The main books are historical documents translated by Jesinia, who happens to be involved with Sawyer.

The series repeatedly shows us how history can be distorted by the people recording it. What if the books themselves are an example? Jesinia doesn’t necessarily have to falsify anything. Translation choices and personal bias could be enough to give readers a misleading impression of Sawyer.

Given RY’s education in history, I wonder whether the framing of the novels as translated historical documents is more significant than we’ve realised.

I don’t think Sawyer’s personality in Threshing Day is a retcon. Maybe his characterisation as kind and good-natured isn’t inconsistent at all. Maybe we’ve simply never been given an entirely reliable account of him.

I recently discovered the Empyrean series, absolutely loved it, and immediately started rereading the books. And now I can't stop wondering whether we're missing some pieces of Xaden and Violet's early history.

Something about Xaden's behavior toward Violet feels off when you look at the timeline of events, especially after reading his bonus chapters.

Throughout Threshing Day and the first half of Fourth Wing, we're constantly told what a ruthless, cold, and dangerous person Xaden is. He kills without hesitation, he's portrayed as someone capable of extreme cruelty, and during his own Threshing Day, he even considers escaping the Quadrant and killing Violet. When we first meet him, we're explicitly told that his eyes darken with hatred at the sight of her.

And honestly, given their circumstances, it makes sense. Violet is the daughter of the general responsible for the deaths of his father and his friends' parents, and she's now a rider in his chain of command. They're not friends, they barely know each other, and before Threshing, their actual interactions can practically be counted on one hand.

But then we get Xaden's POV chapters, and... this man is already DOWN BAD for her. 😭

These chapters take place very early in the timeline, before they really start interacting and getting to know each other through their bond. Yet he's already thinking about kissing her, fantasizing about getting her alone in an empty room, calling her his in his thoughts, and trying to keep her from noticing his very obvious physical reaction to her during sparring. Garrick has even noticed how attracted he is to her.

And the thing is, Xaden isn't exactly a guy with nothing else going on in his life. He has long-term plans, responsibilities, people depending on him, and an entire rebellion to worry about. He's also in a commanding position himself. Even if Violet intrigues him, and even if he has a personal reason to keep an eye on her because of the deal he made with her mother, you'd think he'd have more important things occupying his mind than a girl he's barely interacted with.

I understand being physically attracted to someone or becoming intrigued by their intelligence and personality after a few interactions. But his feelings seem so intense compared to how little time they've actually spent together at that point. It's not just that he's attracted to her; it's how quickly and completely he seems to be consumed by her. And honestly, it almost feels off-putting in a way, because the intensity doesn't feel earned by what we've actually seen happen between them.

Meanwhile, Violet's attraction initially seems much more straightforward: she notices how physically attractive he is, and her feelings develop as they spend more time together.

So there's this huge disconnect between the ruthless Xaden we're introduced to in Threshing Day and the hopelessly smitten Xaden we see in his POV chapters. The transition feels so abrupt and unnatural that I can't help wondering whether we're missing something.

Which brings me back to Violet's memories. I'm not saying I have a specific theory, and I could absolutely be overthinking this. I just keep wondering whether there's more to their early history than we know, or whether we're actually getting the full picture of their relationship from Violet's perspective.

On the other hand, I struggle to imagine what narrative purpose erased memories from such an early period would serve. If something significant happened between them that Violet no longer remembers, I wonder what it could possibly be. But if nothing happened and we really do know everything about their early interactions, then... I don't know. His feelings just seem weirdly disproportionate to the circumstances.

So, how much can we actually trust that we know everything about Violet and Xaden's early history? Or am I overthinking this, and his feelings are simply supposed to develop that quickly?

He's so proud of and confident in Violet's abilities it melts my heart!! Especially when nobody expected her to make such a powerful rider given her physical size and condition at first...

"I don’t recognize any of the other riders besides Brennan, but I’d bet Xaden is the most powerful in the room, given their silence.

“For now,” Tairn reminds me with the arrogance only a hundred years of being one of the most formidable battle dragons on the Continent can provide."

It's even savage if you think about the fact that Xaden is his mate's rider😏 Even Molvic moved away for Sgaeyl.

Imagine everyone thinking "Omg Xaden is the most powerful rider of the generation" then here comes the 👑 Tairn saying NOT SO FAST LOL

Spoiler potential for ALL books!

Heads up - this post gets more and more unhinged as it goes. So if at any point you feel like I've gone too far, it won't get better as you keep reading. Feel free to stop there and leave, let me know your thoughts or when I lost you, or stay and critique the whole thing! If I got something wrong or you can think of something that disproves any part of it, please comment so I can update my post or we can see what could explain it.

>!I have seen people thinking of a possible connection between Fables of the Barren, and the reveal of Alic Baran.

What if the Fables of the Barren was actually about the three Baran brothers. One bonded a dragon (ancestor of King Tauri's lineage) and ruled Navarre, the brother who bonded a gryphon went to Poromiel and is the ancestor of their leader, and the third brother (being jealous) turned venin. (I might be misremembering here) but we don't know how they defeated the venin brother 600 years ago.

What if instead of whatever end (if there is one) in the Fable of the Barren, venin were banished off the continent past the Emerald Sea.

So - when the story was originally told, it was told as the Fables of the Baran. When the king (either OG rider or a descendant) had the scribes write the story down, he made it be spelled closer to the dead part of the continent, The Barrens, so that his people wouldn't make the connection, and didn't know the true story about the brother. And therefore don't know about the third brother living beyond the Emerald Sea.

If a Daxton was the scribe who originally recorded the story, that could explain why one has (I assume) been passed down the family line and Asher had a copy of it even after it was clearly removed from the rest of the public.

I'm not as sold on this next part, but what if the venin are actually "good." And what if the third brother only channeled to keep the other two brothers from destroying the continent. OR, we have the timeline of the brothers wrong and the "third" brother actually channeled first, and the other two brothers were the jealous ones without magic. Enter the dragons, who could access the magic but offered to bond the Navarre brother to one, raise the wards, and two, be able to compete with the venin brother by channeling magic to the rider. So the dragon rider is actually the balance to the venin, remember Theophanie said "she was their answer to me."

This could be when the Irids chose to leave. The dragons who bonded and stayed behind already were, or eventually became whatever color they were. Andarna was left behind incase the dragons ever stopped fighting and humans were jealous for power. !<

TLDR - fables of the barren is a coverup by the original dragon rider so his people wouldn't know he was the bad guy. It clearly has worked for 600 years.

Thanks for staying. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

I really wonder what his dad said when he returned bonded to red dragon Cath instead of a green from his own dragons den. I also wonder if he found out Cath intimidated that other dragon away from Dain.

So, I was rereading Dain’s chapter in Threshing Day and came across the line where he says that his father hears about everything he doesn’t want him to hear about and nothing he wants him to. And knowing Aetos and how he feels about the marked ones, I feel like it’s only a matter of time before he finds out about Dain and Sloane, probably in book 4. Considering that he sent assassins after a girl he practically viewed as a daughter, I’m genuinely worried about what he might do to Sloane.
What makes this even more worrisome is how the others would react to Dain’s and Sloane’s relationship . Violet and Ridoc have shown him support in Onyx, with Ridoc literally hugging him despite everyone still being wary of his signet. There have also been multiple mentions of Bodhi and Dain talking in the background, and by the end of Onyx Storm, Bodhi acknowledges him as their wingleader. Imogen saved his life, and even Xaden has had his moments of warming up to him.
But I wonder how much of that would change if they found out about Sloane. I feel like there’s a difference between accepting Dain again and accepting that he’s involved with someone who blamed him for her brothers death.
For some reason, I also think Aaric might already know. Sloane mentioned how observant he is, and with his precognition signet, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had picked up on something. I’m not sure whether anyone else in the main cast suspects anything, but I could see Sloane’s squadmates, Baylor, Avalynn, and Lynx, knowing, while Cianna might know something from Dain’s side.

I’ve been thinking about the whole “Dain and Sloane are a mirror to Xaden and Violet” theory and that has me thinking about Cath and Thorit as a bonded pair.

While I don’t want or think Dain and Sloane need anymore parallels to V and Xaden, I do believe that Cath and Thorit being a bonded pair would be so good for the story and for Slain.

1. We could get to see how bonded pairs gets made.

I think if Thorit and Cath do bond, it would be after the fact that they are already bonded to Sloane and Dain.

And I’m very interested to see what that process is like.

I think, given how much both dragons care about thier riders autonomy—Cath pushing Dain to be his own man, Thorit choosing not to channel to Sloane till she’s ready—I believe it would be something they would give Dain and Sloane a heads up about and maybe even the possibility of input.

If this were the case, I personally can’t see either Dain or Sloane saying “No” to the dragons they love very much and who are now essentially the only family they have left.

They may not be 100% comfortably with each other to now have access to each other’s thoughts. But if it was the price to pay for thier dragons happiness / bond I really think they would do it.

2. It would push Dain and Sloane into some really great character development and healing.

I really think that their dragons bonding would be good for Slain’s character development, healing and growth as a couple.

I can imagine the first couple of weeks getting used to being in each others head is quite jarring and disorienting.
This would be a nice, sharp contrast from V and Xaden who are elated to be in each other’s head.

I can see Dain really learning and doubling down on the importance of ALWAYS shielding to keep Sloane’s privacy and thoughts to herself, despite also wanting to keep her safe.

This would further expand on the amount of growth that He has had with learning how to be a protector and a leader. He intervenes during Sloane’s threshing, he is adamant she trained her signet, he talks her through a high-stakes use of it, and now he would be the one actively shielding their dragons bond to ensure her thoughts are her own.

He would not be making the same mistakes he made with Violet when trying to keep her safe.

Additionally, I can see Sloane being majorly freaked out by having Dain freaking Aetos in her head. Someone she loathes but also thinks is hot, but I can imagine after she gets past that she starts to feel that’s it’s kinda nice having the option to never be alone again (besides just Thorit), or no longer feeling like she can hide all of herself and her thoughts from everyone, including her close friends like she did at threshing.

I mean Dain was the who saved her from herself at threshing. Who saw her when no one else could tell how badly she was suffering and now he would be the one who always knows her state of mind, *with her consent of course.*

I love this two so much I think about them entirely way too often and I’m really excited for their POV in book 4 :)

We saw at the end of onyx storm how venin kills their dragon (even in Iron flame with jack Barlow)

Is that foreshadowing that papa aetos will literally kill his dragon bc he's venin??

She came to bring Violet from the field with Theophanie to Tairn, who asked her to do that?

Initially I thought it was Tairn but this convo made me think maybe it wasn't Tairn?

“I told you to stay on the field.” Two talons hook over my shoulders, and every bone in my body grates on the others as I’m jerked upward.

“But in this case, I’m relieved you did not listen.”

“Sgaeyl made that choice, but me, too.”

Xaden didn't know what Violet was up to at the time so he wouldn't have been the one to ask her to bring her to Tairn?

Did Sgaeyl make that choice to save her after realizing how far away Tairn was and Violet wouldn't be able to wield against Theophanie? I mean...if she died all 4 of them die but still...she even complemented her on occupying the maven which felt oddly... sweet for her

Something occurred to me after finishing Threshing Day, and being reminded again of how much all the marked ones are hated in Basgiath College. So where did Xaden get all of his sexual experience, being in a college full of people that hated and mistrusted him? He made the comment to Violet that he ended up with quite a few next-day regrets on nights where Sgaeyl and Tairn were getting it on, and he didn't sleep with first years even when he was a first year, so that rules out the marked ones he started college with. Plus, I don't see him going for marked girls because he had too much responsibility on his shoulders in having to look out for all of them.

So we know there was Cat, but I'm really curious who else he would've been with considering that they were outcasts. That just popped into my head as I was rereading Fourth Wing after finishing TD.

Hey everyone! I need some advice because I’m honestly torn about what to do.

I started Fourth Wing by listening to the regular audiobook while following along with my physical copy, but after chapter 2, I started getting a little bored. The beginning feels a bit slow to me, and I usually need something exciting to happen early on to keep me hooked, like in The Hunger Games.

I’m also finding the regular audiobook a little boring, so I’ve been thinking about trying the GraphicAudio version instead.

The thing is, I actually like the story and the events so far! I also love this community and seeing how passionate everyone is about the books. The fan made merchandise, artwork, and all the beautiful designs people create are honestly some of my favorite things to see. ❤️
It makes me want to get more into the series and be part of the fandom, which is why I really want to find a way to enjoy the book rather than give up on it.

For some context, English isn’t my first language, and I’m a slow reader, which is why I usually listen to audiobooks while following along with the text. I mostly read or listen to romance, so Fourth Wing is my first time getting into fantasy in English. I’m a little worried that the world building and fantasy terminology might make it harder for me to fully understand everything.

I’ve considered reading the Arabic translation first because it would probably help me understand the story more easily. However, I’m hesitant to rely on the translation because I’m worried that some details, wording, or parts of the original might have been changed, adapted, or omitted (especially the spicy chapters). I contacted the publisher, and they assured me that the translation preserves the original work’s content and spirit, but I’d still feel more comfortable hearing from someone who has actually read both versions.

So has anyone here read the Arabic translation of Fourth Wing?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on its quality and how closely it follows the English original.
Did you notice any significant differences or omissions?

I actually tried asking a few people on TikTok about the translation quality and the differences between the Arabic and English versions, but unfortunately, no one got back to me. 😩
So I thought I’d ask here!

I also have a couple of questions about the book and the GraphicAudio version:

1- Does the story get more exciting after the first few chapters?

2- Does the GraphicAudio version cut or skip any significant parts of the original novel?

Now I’m torn between two options:

Option 1: Read Fourth Wing in Arabic first so I can fully understand the story, then listen to the GraphicAudio version later.

Option 2: Start the GraphicAudio now and follow along with my English copy, even though I might miss some details or struggle with the world building.

For people who have read the books or listened to the traditional audiobook first and then listened to the Graphic audiobook

Do you feel like the voice actors have impacted how you feel about the characters or some of the scenes?

I didn’t read them which is a huge regret but also I’d have never gotten to it I’m so busy but I did the traditional audiobook first and listened to the series at least 5 times (in a row lol)

It wasn’t until the GA that I cared about Ridoc, Garrick or Dain and now I care too much lol

In book 1, feathertails are known as a breed and violet recites during gauntlet “feathertail dragons are the breed we know the least about”. And how they abhor violence yada yada. But in book 1, there are only six breeds — the colors — red, blue, orange, brown, green and black.
So where did feathertails fit in this ^^ ?

I’ve read the other books so I understand the lead up to irids which is kinda why I’m confused. Because if irids are the surprise seventh breed than wtf were feathertails supposed to be the whole time? The general public did not know feathertails are just babies and not a breed.

I’m confused if this is a plot hole.

Which Fablelistik edition (if any) should I buy? Violet or Xaden’s? I have been eyeing these for a long time. I’d love to own both but I can’t justify buying both right now.

In fourth wing bonus chapters from xadens pov, during his sparring with Violet, he notices her heart racing and assumes she’s scared. But shouldn’t he be able to sense her intentions that she’s actually just really turned on, not scared? That seems like an inconsistency between fourth wing and iron flame. Has anyone else noted this?

Hi, please only read ahead if you’ve read all of these books and are up to date:

1) fourth wing
2) iron flame
3) onyx storm
4) threshing day

Question 1: does a dragon gift their riders second signets only if they have themselves bonded a riders direct relative before? Or is it to do with whether the dragon line (so also any dragon in their dragon family) bond a rider in the riders familial line? My questions comes after the discussion with Sloane and her dragon about family lines and siblings given Sloane and Liam are siblings, and their dragons are siblings. Is it just the direct dragon link, or do dragon familial lines work too?

Question 2: Sloane - regardless of the sibling thing, do we feel like she will she have a second signet given her dragon seems to know much about her mother and runes? If so what do we think it will be? Would be fitting if it was far-sight or perhaps rather than seeing what’s not there to everyone else, or as as book one suggested ice (or was this a typo?).

Question 3: Will Aaric have a second signet if Molvic waited years to bond him - if we assume he wanted a strong rider and wouldn’t settle for just anyone…What do we think it might be?

Question 4: We learn from Threshing day about the affair in his family lines, that Xaden might not be the true heir. Would this make it Bodhi? Or have I read/misunderstood that wrong. Also not aware that Bodhi has a second signet which could make him go mad. But if his ancestry is wrong (speculation), could this be why?

Statement rather than question: Cath is a red dragon (male) and Sloane’s dragon Thoirt is female. I reckon this could be the start of something here and I guess in theory they could they have a mating bond (if they choose to mate) or link given they’re from the same red den. Thoirt also alludes to Sloane’s being the last of her family, for now.