The dragons lied

I think that the dragons biggest lie is that there were 7 gods and the seventh was the first venin.

Okay hear me out we learn in onyx storm the isles usually have a color associated with them and the god of that isle seems to resemble the traits of that dragon color.

What if the seventh god belonged with the irids.

Okay now we know irids despise violence. What if their God saw all the destruction the other breeds were causing by gifting their riders these signets like ice fire lightning storm shadows etc. So in order to obtain peace the 7th rider decided to drain the land of magic in order to stop destruction.

Yes I think the first venin had honorable intentions but draining corrupted his soul.

In fourth wing it is mentioned do you think you can start on the right side of a war and end up on the wrong one. I think that one quote foreshadows the entire series.

Tell me what you think am I crazy or does this possibly make sense

I’m doing a re-listen after threshing day was released and
I am so mad at Xaden right now.

Not only did he keep Violet completely in the dark about the Rybestad chest and what it could actually hold, but he also completely failed to prep her to deal with Catriona. He could have shared valuable info about that chest in the moment but only says it’s the most valuable thing his dad had to offer? Like I get he thinks it’s a dig at him but explaining why it was valuable was a huge miss. And with all this talk about shielding for ever, you’d think he would mention that flyers could do shit like this and offer info on how to protect from emotional manipulations. It’s really making me question his true motivations. It’s really convenient for him to say he wants to protect her but not provide valuable info in the moment or ahead of time.

Violet walked right into that situation without a clue about what she was walking into, while Xaden just expected her to handle it and figure things out on the fly. It drives me crazy how he constantly decides what information she "needs" instead of treating her as an equal partner who deserves a heads-up. She deserved to know what she was dealing with, both with the chest and with Cat.

I know this is fiction, but listening to this again has me seeing a whole ‘nother perspective.

According to RY all 13 stories in Threshing Day contains a Book 4 clue. Source: https://winteriscoming.net/4-fourth-wing-book-4-reveals-you-missed-rebecca-yarros-latest-events?utm_source=chatgpt.com

What do we think is the clue from each one?

It's Dain and Imogen hands down, like im sorry i need them to have one scene where they're talking shit about everyone.

Their signets counter eachother

They're in the same sqaud

His future love interest is like her little sister.

She saved him in os

They are bestfriends in my mind till proven otherwise.

Edit: Just to say Xaden and Imogen are underrated af too

RY has recently said during a recent interview that the tree climbing is supposed to make Dain and Violet feel familiar- but she cannot go too in depth because she doesn't want to give spoilers.

First of all I want to say I don't believe that Lilith nor Asher were cheaters- the more common theory going on right now. We only have two relationships among the parents that were decent Bodhi's parents and Violet's - maybe Liam and Sloane's -, let's leave them be. Old people can be in love too.

But it did get me thinking about some strange sentences and word choices.

So my theory is: Lilith and Aetos Sr. are related, more specifically are cousins.

1. "Too bad you were born on the wrong side of the family" Aetos Sr. OS.

   This was about Drake- so I originally had thought that this would mean that either Aetos or his wife were related to Cordella's somehow. But now I think he's being showing that he too was born on the wrong side of his family.

The Sorrengail's- but didn't inherit the name because either his family wasn't a rider? Or maybe they didn't inherit the Sorrengail gift? Or perhaps, like Asher, Aetos' parent took his wife's name?

1. "All Sorrengails are Wing Leaders." - Mira's Pov in Threshing Day.

This sticks out like a sour thumb in Mira's chapters- I went "OH NO" when I read that. It's giving "All Sorrengail's are riders" and that's yet to be disproven.

BUT what else did we learn about Aetos Sr?

He was a wing leader of Second Wing... Dain is also wing leader.

1. "I love her ( Violet ) like a daughter..." Aetos Sr. about Violet ( TD ).

I doubt that this means that Aetos Sr. is Violet's father, lmao ( actually RY has confirmed that Lilith isn't a cheater before... she hates the "Who's really Violet's parents?" theories. ). But it links up a more family bond in Aetos Sr. life.

1. "No, Sorrengail looks like she just accidently kissed her cousin and can't retreat fast enough." Xaden's PoV bonus chapter of Fourth Wing.

Yes, this is supposed to show that there isn't any chemistry between Violet and Dain. Of course and it does. But i's the word choice of saying "cousin"- it could've been brother or sour apple. Something that gives off the same impression.

That would allow for Violet and Dain to be related without... well... there to be the yuckiness of cheating or being so closely related ( 2nd cousins? Not too uncommon. It's even legal most countries, from my understanding ). It would also explain why Lilith has kept Aetos Sr. so close without trusting him. They're family.

Hey, Riders!! I've been wanting to save up a bit so that I can support an artist and get a commission of my rider-self and the dragon I bonded with on the site. So I figured... why not earn a little extra by writing people their very own Threshing story? :) It will be just like you have your own Threshing Day chapter!

Each story will be 3k words, and it will be $25 each story! You can give me as much/as little detail from your own Threshing journey as you like, all I need to know is about you/your character and the ideas you have for your dragon.

I'm really excited to meet other Riders and learn about your dragons, and how their stories started!

If you'd like an example, you can take a look at my own Threshing story that I wrote, and have posted here.

Thanks much!! Shoot me a message or respond below if you're interested!

I recommended Fourth Wing to a friend because she was looking for something to listen to and now I’m super nervous about her reaction to it lol.

I don’t expect her to love it as much as I do, but for some reason I’m nervous she’ll rip it apart…

She’s also a lesbian so Xaden’s charms will not work on her 😂😂

Alright, I'd love to hear your theories on Sloane and Dain post Threshing Days - I'll lay out some of mine but would love to know everyone's views. I'm going to recap their scenes so we can all remember the same stuff.

Recap: Spoiler for Iron Flame, Onyx Storm and Threshing Day:

• So, obviously we now know he broke the Codex for her in Threshing Day. I went back to Iron Flame, and there are few interactions between them. I think Dain probably kept his distance but made sure she was looked after from afar (based on his guilt for Liam's death
• Onyx Storm is where we get crumbs. So, first he told her to train her signet and I imagine she might have refused and he might've pulled a Xaden and said if you won't, then I'll train with you. I'm thinking maybe he took her to training. ALSO, in that interaction, she already flushes before they argue. Dain is pointed out as looking tired and Violet assumes is from his work but what if something had happened already
• Then, we have the argument that happens when it's about helping citizens before the battle and Sloane lunges to fight and Dain holds her back - she still punches his chest a couple of times before he says something to her that calms her down, but she still glares (at him or the others I'm unsure tbh). And finally the whole "eyes on me" and "you are life" at then end of OS. She still calls him an arsehole and he swears but I think this is definitely the beginning of something.

“You won’t.” He lifts his brows. “You can hate me later, but trust me now or she dies.” Sloane wraps her fingers around Dain’s wrist. Her eyes flare, and she swallows. “Someone like you shouldn’t have this much power. (...) Her brow knits, and Dain flinches. “I’m going to hurt you.” “Gods, don’t I know it.” He nods. “But you’re not going to kill me, no matter how badly you want to. Now do it.” Her mouth tightens, and Dain grits his teeth.

Yarros, Rebecca. Onyx Storm(The Empyrean Book 3) (p. 708). (Function). Kindle Edition.

SO. After all this, I think

1. they might have had an angry sexually frustrated kiss when they've argued. Sloane is definitely attracted to him even if she hates him. Or maybe they train at the gym together and she's been looking at him (the way Violet used to look at Xaden).
2. I also think Dain either has a second signet or can do much more than get memories - I think he's reading her thoughts/intentions maybe similar to Xaden? But the "this much power" and what he says, it's like he can see through her.
3. I'm hoping Onyx Storm is their slow burn - maybe he'll practice her signet with her because of the same logic of the last scene, his power is not as necessary to be kept to the max at all times. I also think that they might be come the second couple of the books because Violet and Xaden are about to be separated for at least book 4 (I imagine) but this is a romantasy so maybe Dain and Sloane will be the romantic focus in book 4.
4. My theory for book 5 and it's fully out of my head, I don't necessarily have proof for that. I wonder if Dain won't sacrifice himself for Violet/Xaden (I've thought this would happen from the beginning tbh) but then Sloane will rush to save him and that'll be her ultimate act of forgiveness towards him (she wants him dead, as per his words) and now she saves him, maybe just siphoning her power towards him, maybe using Brennan who knows. And that is what outs them to the world maybe?
5. now that one's just a prayer - I'd love for them to have a happy ending and he takes her name. I've seen a few people say this and here's why I think it makes sense: Dain hates his name, she's the last Mairi, she says in TD "I'll have a family again". I think he could become a Mari and their family will keep the line alive. Dain has zero love for his line - I actually hope we find out what happened to his mum, I reckon something happened.

what do you all think? Also, it seems unclear whether we'll have Sloane's POV in book 4 but it sounds like we might. I think their chance at happy endings are good, because RY loves Dain and he's been a major character from the beginning. (maybe I'm just telling myself this to make myself feel better - I think after Threshing Day, I want their happy ending as much as I want Violet and Xaden's).

The Dragonkind Threshing Day game has been out for a couple weeks now and many of us are still on the search for a black dragon. I know some of you have gone to extensive lengths in gathering data and documenting pathways/percentages.

I made a discord for people to discuss their findings and vent frustrations.

If you have bonded a black dragon please jump in and share your bonding experience. Feel free to share your dragon photos of any color.

I do not have experience with making a polished server so if this gains traction and you have that experience maybe you can help make it better.

https://discord.gg/CVzfyDjCW

Hi riders,

I have a theory about Aaric because his POV was the most interesting one for me, and it got me thinking a lot.

Spoilers from here on!

The way he goes straight for Molvic, rejects another dragon (while being undeniably hot doing so, lol), and claims him as his own feels a little weird to me. Sure, being a prince and a royal might have given him a lot of confidence, but he still seemed so sure that Molvic would accept him. It made me wonder if he had precognition abilities even before manifesting his signet.

We still have so much to learn about this world, like Liam and Sloane’s mom being a Rune Master. That’s something entirely different from being a rider or a venin. Maybe Aaric is something different, too.

I’m also really curious about why he told Sloane, “No. Dying.” He emphasized those words while making eye contact with her before leaving. Was he just making an assumption, or did he already know she was going to try unalive herself? Plus, we didn’t get his POV of that moment🤔

There are theories out there about Lilith being Venin when she was pregnant but what if Asher was the Venin?

Lilith talks about the fever that she had while pregnant with Violet and it draining all of her color. What if Asher is the reason for that?

What if Asher took V to be dedicated to Dunne to protect her and her being born of a Venin and a human didn’t work because Dunne wasn’t sure which path she’d take?

RY said something jn an interview about Venin being in cream cloaks. If the scribe quadrant is being run by Venin, of course Lilith wouldn’t want her there (as later explained).

Also, Asher’s mom could have something to do with why Asher went so long without fully turning.

Any thoughts?

He's so proud of and confident in Violet's abilities it melts my heart!! Especially when nobody expected her to make such a powerful rider given her physical size and condition at first...

"I don’t recognize any of the other riders besides Brennan, but I’d bet Xaden is the most powerful in the room, given their silence.

“For now,” Tairn reminds me with the arrogance only a hundred years of being one of the most formidable battle dragons on the Continent can provide."

It's even savage if you think about the fact that Xaden is his mate's rider😏 Even Molvic moved away for Sgaeyl.

Imagine everyone thinking "Omg Xaden is the most powerful rider of the generation" then here comes the 👑 Tairn saying NOT SO FAST LOL

Noticed what I think is a fun little reference in Threshing Day.

In Fourth Wing when Mira gives Violet the vest made with Teine's scales she says:

“I happen to know a rider whose powers can make big things very small.” A devious smile plays across her lips. “And smaller things…much, much bigger.”

In Mira's chapter, her friend Cowan says:

"I can't help my height." He jumps, reaching for the closest limb, but comes up short, his fingertips just brushing the bottom of the branch before he lands. "Trust me, if I could spontaneously sprout another couple of inches and catch up to you, I would."

I guess he really wanted those extra inches.

Ahhh so I finally figured out how to bond a blue dragon (finally!) yaaay!

I’ve also been craving a Threshing Day debrief that covers all POVs/thoughts/theories etc… so here’s a (not so little) video with allll that 🥰

https://youtu.be/nIdngZ-nD5k

I really wonder what his dad said when he returned bonded to red dragon Cath instead of a green from his own dragons den. I also wonder if he found out Cath intimidated that other dragon away from Dain.

We saw at the end of onyx storm how venin kills their dragon (even in Iron flame with jack Barlow)

Is that foreshadowing that papa aetos will literally kill his dragon bc he's venin??

In fourth wing bonus chapters from xadens pov, during his sparring with Violet, he notices her heart racing and assumes she’s scared. But shouldn’t he be able to sense her intentions that she’s actually just really turned on, not scared? That seems like an inconsistency between fourth wing and iron flame. Has anyone else noted this?

After reading Threshing Day, I’m starting to suspect Sawyer is going to become an antagonist. Not necessarily that he’s the big bad himself, and I’m not suggesting he’ll turn venin, but I wonder if he’ll be connected to the One Who Watches or something.

Sawyer is conspicuously angry in Threshing Day, and Sliseag seems to value that anger. It’s a contrast to his characterisation in the main books, where he’s arguably the squad member we know least about.

There’s also something odd about his bond. Sawyer was apparently a very capable cadet who simply wasn’t chosen at his first Threshing. Except Sliseag reveals he’d already picked Sawyer and apologises for making him wait because he himself wasn’t ready to bond. Why Sawyer, and why the delay? It’s not like he’s one of the marked ones, whose dragons may have had particular reasons for choosing them.

Sawyer also comes from the same province as Lyra, whose account of the wards turned out to be accurate. That could be coincidence, but given the series’ themes, it’s interesting.

Here’s where my theory gets a bit more speculative. RY has said Threshing Day is the first account we can trust. The main books are historical documents translated by Jesinia, who happens to be involved with Sawyer.

The series repeatedly shows us how history can be distorted by the people recording it. What if the books themselves are an example? Jesinia doesn’t necessarily have to falsify anything. Translation choices and personal bias could be enough to give readers a misleading impression of Sawyer.

Given RY’s education in history, I wonder whether the framing of the novels as translated historical documents is more significant than we’ve realised.

I don’t think Sawyer’s personality in Threshing Day is a retcon. Maybe his characterisation as kind and good-natured isn’t inconsistent at all. Maybe we’ve simply never been given an entirely reliable account of him.

I recently discovered the Empyrean series, absolutely loved it, and immediately started rereading the books. And now I can't stop wondering whether we're missing some pieces of Xaden and Violet's early history.

Something about Xaden's behavior toward Violet feels off when you look at the timeline of events, especially after reading his bonus chapters.

Throughout Threshing Day and the first half of Fourth Wing, we're constantly told what a ruthless, cold, and dangerous person Xaden is. He kills without hesitation, he's portrayed as someone capable of extreme cruelty, and during his own Threshing Day, he even considers escaping the Quadrant and killing Violet. When we first meet him, we're explicitly told that his eyes darken with hatred at the sight of her.

And honestly, given their circumstances, it makes sense. Violet is the daughter of the general responsible for the deaths of his father and his friends' parents, and she's now a rider in his chain of command. They're not friends, they barely know each other, and before Threshing, their actual interactions can practically be counted on one hand.

But then we get Xaden's POV chapters, and... this man is already DOWN BAD for her. 😭

These chapters take place very early in the timeline, before they really start interacting and getting to know each other through their bond. Yet he's already thinking about kissing her, fantasizing about getting her alone in an empty room, calling her his in his thoughts, and trying to keep her from noticing his very obvious physical reaction to her during sparring. Garrick has even noticed how attracted he is to her.

And the thing is, Xaden isn't exactly a guy with nothing else going on in his life. He has long-term plans, responsibilities, people depending on him, and an entire rebellion to worry about. He's also in a commanding position himself. Even if Violet intrigues him, and even if he has a personal reason to keep an eye on her because of the deal he made with her mother, you'd think he'd have more important things occupying his mind than a girl he's barely interacted with.

I understand being physically attracted to someone or becoming intrigued by their intelligence and personality after a few interactions. But his feelings seem so intense compared to how little time they've actually spent together at that point. It's not just that he's attracted to her; it's how quickly and completely he seems to be consumed by her. And honestly, it almost feels off-putting in a way, because the intensity doesn't feel earned by what we've actually seen happen between them.

Meanwhile, Violet's attraction initially seems much more straightforward: she notices how physically attractive he is, and her feelings develop as they spend more time together.

So there's this huge disconnect between the ruthless Xaden we're introduced to in Threshing Day and the hopelessly smitten Xaden we see in his POV chapters. The transition feels so abrupt and unnatural that I can't help wondering whether we're missing something.

Which brings me back to Violet's memories. I'm not saying I have a specific theory, and I could absolutely be overthinking this. I just keep wondering whether there's more to their early history than we know, or whether we're actually getting the full picture of their relationship from Violet's perspective.

On the other hand, I struggle to imagine what narrative purpose erased memories from such an early period would serve. If something significant happened between them that Violet no longer remembers, I wonder what it could possibly be. But if nothing happened and we really do know everything about their early interactions, then... I don't know. His feelings just seem weirdly disproportionate to the circumstances.

So, how much can we actually trust that we know everything about Violet and Xaden's early history? Or am I overthinking this, and his feelings are simply supposed to develop that quickly?

Hey everyone! I need some advice because I’m honestly torn about what to do.

I started Fourth Wing by listening to the regular audiobook while following along with my physical copy, but after chapter 2, I started getting a little bored. The beginning feels a bit slow to me, and I usually need something exciting to happen early on to keep me hooked, like in The Hunger Games.

I’m also finding the regular audiobook a little boring, so I’ve been thinking about trying the GraphicAudio version instead.

The thing is, I actually like the story and the events so far! I also love this community and seeing how passionate everyone is about the books. The fan made merchandise, artwork, and all the beautiful designs people create are honestly some of my favorite things to see. ❤️
It makes me want to get more into the series and be part of the fandom, which is why I really want to find a way to enjoy the book rather than give up on it.

For some context, English isn’t my first language, and I’m a slow reader, which is why I usually listen to audiobooks while following along with the text. I mostly read or listen to romance, so Fourth Wing is my first time getting into fantasy in English. I’m a little worried that the world building and fantasy terminology might make it harder for me to fully understand everything.

I’ve considered reading the Arabic translation first because it would probably help me understand the story more easily. However, I’m hesitant to rely on the translation because I’m worried that some details, wording, or parts of the original might have been changed, adapted, or omitted (especially the spicy chapters). I contacted the publisher, and they assured me that the translation preserves the original work’s content and spirit, but I’d still feel more comfortable hearing from someone who has actually read both versions.

So has anyone here read the Arabic translation of Fourth Wing?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on its quality and how closely it follows the English original.
Did you notice any significant differences or omissions?

I actually tried asking a few people on TikTok about the translation quality and the differences between the Arabic and English versions, but unfortunately, no one got back to me. 😩
So I thought I’d ask here!

I also have a couple of questions about the book and the GraphicAudio version:

1- Does the story get more exciting after the first few chapters?

2- Does the GraphicAudio version cut or skip any significant parts of the original novel?

Now I’m torn between two options:

Option 1: Read Fourth Wing in Arabic first so I can fully understand the story, then listen to the GraphicAudio version later.

Option 2: Start the GraphicAudio now and follow along with my English copy, even though I might miss some details or struggle with the world building.

Do you think Xaden knows that the reason Imogen won’t get with Garrick is because she’s convinced he will die if she does?

I mean it’s pretty clear his “intention” reading is a little more than that. There’s lots of instances where he’s basically just reading Violets thoughts.

I wonder if Xaden knows what’s really going on with Imogen and if he’s ever discussed it with her. If he did I wonder if he would tell Garrick.

I feel so sad for her carrying all this and with Quinn it’s going to solidify her concerns even further.

Somehow I like to imagine that at least somebody sees what’s actually going on - that Garrick feelings are not unrequited but that she has a really tragic reason for not pursuing it.