When I was a kid, I somehow managed to get the Sprite Darter Hatchling without even knowing it existed. I had one of the coolest pets in the game and didn't even realize how rare it was. That accidental discovery made it all the more special, and it's a memory that'll stay with me forever.
Now look how they massacred my boy.
I know one is a rare drop in Feralas and the other might be a shop pet, but the difference in design philosophy is undeniable.
And the fact that you can just buy it now makes it feel even less special. Back then, getting that pet was a genuine achievement or sometimes just an incredible stroke of luck. You had a story behind it. Now it's just another shop purchase...
they are way more advanced than that, they made a whole fake rexarr set that doesn't even work and then released it for $30 before removing it from the game all just to pwn the dataminers
People have been saying that with every wave of datamined garbage for over a decade and so far nothing has turned out to be rendered just for the dataminers..
I remember reading they were adding items into the database that were red herrings just for this reason, some of these are probably put in to mess with us.
This is copium on a whole other level. Do people actually think a company as cheap as Blizzard is spending resources making fake models to throw off data miners?
How does a company know what is too far if it never tests the edges?
The problem isn't that a company pushes against a boundary and gets backlash. The problem is when the backlash establishes a boundary and the company continues pushing past it anyway.
If Blizzard never tested what players wanted, would WoW have evolved at all? Or would we still essentially be playing Classic WoW with some new zones attached?
Experimentation necessarily means occasionally discovering that players don't like something. That's information. What matters is what the company does with that information afterward.
The sprite on the right of this image is clearly too Disneyfied for someone who wants the world taken seriously. The sprite on the left is where the magic of Classic WoW actually existed.
If Blizzard puts both kinds of experiments in front of players and learns where that boundary is, that's not a failure of credibility. That's one of the ways they figure out what the identity of the game actually is.
If Blizzard never tested what players wanted, would WoW have evolved at all? Or would we still essentially be playing Classic WoW with some new zones attached?
thats what im most concerned about, they still are so indecisive, they still did figure out classes, style, horizontal progress. we going blind as they are.
they did a whole blitzcon for it, they had nothing to announce but forever, and since everyone else loved that SoD was close to realse they did the same thing
I think they need to hire a separate art team for Forever. It's painfully obvious that these retail artists aren't up to the task. They're good at the furry-esque artstyle they usually do but they seem to be one trick ponies.
I think that relearning (or honestly learning since most of the art team likely didn’t work at Blizz 20 years ago) how to draw in an art style takes time. They’re taking feedback and working on de-retail-ifying things like sky elves, I’m optimistic that they’ll eventually get a better understanding of the art style and be able to produce it from the get go instead of needing to redo their work.
You can know and see how something can/should be done, but that doesn't automatically give you the skillset or experience at doing that. That just takes iteration.
Exactly, though the lesson imo is to start incredibly cautiously until you're comfortable, rather than barrelling in both feet first and then having to rework everything
It does take time. But it's also what they're paid to do. I briefly took a pre-animation class in college and they started teaching us how to replicate an art style within the first couple months. It was also explained to us how commonplace that would be. Additionally, I've worked on a large-scale modding project (not for WoW), and even as enthusiasts working for free, it was expected that we be able to keep to a certain set of rules for the design pipeline. Rules which were clearly defined and communicated to us.
Asking them to keep to the classic artstyle isn't nitpicky or entitled-- it's standard practice.
They could literally just refer to the existing textures and models and go from there. There honestly is no reason it should be this difficult if they actually wanted to stick to the original art style.
See this is what I think people are actually concerned about in the HD vs SD discussion, not the number of pixels. One has more classic fantasy design, the other looks like a Pixar character.
Yeah HD/SD is a misrepresentation. It's the retail art style versus classic (really vanilla + TBC imo where it started to significantly diverge in wotlk) art styles.
It seems like the end of WotLK is where they started really trying to give everything this impression of weight and thickness. Like swords started getting really thick and almost bludgeon-like. Building structures started getting more faction flair (which was good), but became almost too over-stylized and dramatic. Forsaken structures in particular look like something out of a Tim Burton art installation, but really they should probably just look like darker-themed human architecture.
It just seems like they’ve been leaning hard into a bright and cartoon-like art design, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing environmentally (Suramar and Other zones in particular are exquisite), but losing a lot of classic fantasy elements in model design has kind of sucked.
Undead structures in particular look like something out of a Tim Burton art installation, but really they should probably just look like darker-themed human architecture.
aren't the undead structures basically copy pasted buildings from warcraft
the one on the left is a model from Legion, the one on the right is the BABY version of faerie dragons made in dragonflight. baby models have always been made with the "huge eyes and head, tiny body" idea in mind. in any media.
the funny thing is that retail andies (I am from retail too by the way, not classic player) will say how stupid boomer you are for wanting SD models in LOW POLY SD GRAPHICS WORLD, where literally 99,9% of everything is from 2004 (would be 100% but they decided to add hd models), they will say how stupid you are because you want consistency in style and graphics, the devs will listen to them, then in half a year they will abandon SD models saying "nobody wants them",
then classic andies, of course, will quit wow forever because it would be too hard for them going to auction house by feet instead of summonning a VOID CREATURE mount with "VOID AUCTION SPHERE" FROM DRAGON SPACE WITH ANGEL WINGS AND GALAXIES surrounding it’s feet, leaving US, 27 year old boomers with sum "consistency" preferences, leaving us with their shitty disney shrek models.
I finished. English is my 2nd language so the text could be scuffed
Its gonna be a short "forever" if these datamined items end up being shop purchases and what not.
I've mostly stayed out of whether they should be looking to attract Classic or Retail players to this game, but making it a slightly different retail with the bulk of retail's monetization would be a mistake IMO. Retail players do have and clearly enjoy continuing to play Retail and the new content as it comes out. Why split that playerbase across two games when a LOT of classic players who currently don't play are looking for a new experience and absolutely will not stick around if you do any of the things that are strictly associated with the Retail experience?
I'm not saying people should or shouldn't be okay with this. If people like it thats fine, I just know some of the stuff that has happened in the past day has me starting to side with all the people saying they won't be trying Forever and canceling their subs/refunding the game.
I really don't think thats the case. Classic players and Retail players are 100% different audiences and Retail players already have a space they enjoy and are sunk in to. Some will stick around, but I'd bet on Retail players making up the bulk of players who check out after a while because why make a bunch of purchases in Forever when you're already invested in Retail
Edit: In other words, trying to monetize Classic players like you would Retail players is a mistake and I don't think this game ever becomes a huge success off the back of a primarily Retail audience.
Classic players and Retail players are 100% different audiences
Yeah, not the case. There's lots of players that bounce between the two (soon three) depending on the patch cadence. Blizz staggers their retail, classic, remix, etc releases for this very reason.
Blizz needs to focus on the average sub and consumer, not the people who only play one version of the game and don't buy anything outside the sub. Monetization is the only reason Forever exists.
They most definitely don't need to focus on the imaginary average player, especially since they have so many different offerings. Let players choose a flavor they want instead of making several cookie cutter versions.
Yeah pretty much. You're the first person I've seen even mentioning the fact that they're both HD. Everyone else is just frothing at the mouth over meaningless ragebait as usual.
Psychologists should seriously consider studying these communities. I wonder if the average user even has the capacity of introspection and theory of mind. Everything posted here is just mindless rage driven by base impulses, it's embarrassing knowing that the majority of users here are like 40+, yet never seem to have matured past the age of 15
The original is my favorite fantasy creature of all time. I loved it so much in vanilla that I said if I were to get a tattoo, that's what it would be.
I got it done a couple years ago. It's my first and only tattoo and I love it!
Please, blizzard stop with these cutesy designs if you want to roll with the vibe of vanilla WoW. Take a look at the art of warcraft 3 and the first couple of expansions and use them as an inspiriation and not retails inflated plushie looking models.
I think the problem isn't cuteness itself, more that retail follows a more Anime style as opposed to original Comic book/Rock album mixed with 90s fantasy novel art
this whole post is kind of misleading and dumb but everyone is eating it up anyway.... i do agree retail has become way too cutesy in recent times, not just models but all the onesies, butterfly and fox ears tmogs, the way the story is told.. it all ads up. but a BABY version of something isnt a good comparison for this argument... and the left one is STILL an HD model from retail people... lol these are literally both retail hd models.
Fr this all has been exposing how blizzard’s art direction has completely and utterly changed to Disney Pixar. Bring back classic wow, gritty, high contrast and something that takes itself seriously.
I love cute things, genuinely. But these new abominations (like the turtle mount too) aren't even cute. It's like an alien was forced to watch baby shows 24/7, clockwork orange style, and told to design pets and mounts after.
Yes, Blizzard needs to stray away from the Disney-overly-cutsey art style that clashes with classic wow timeless art-style. Keep to those foundational pillars discussed at Blizzcon at all times, or the game will slowly just become what it's trying to separate itself from.
I too randomly got this as a drop when I first started playing wow. I was so excited I loved that little critter so much haha! It turned into a huge obsession with collecting pets, I was so thrilled when pet battles launched in MoP.
AND THEY STILL DEFEND hurr durr blizz didnt "turn disney" like bro ? BRO ??? its that spongebob episode he shows patrick all the garbage even in the walls =D
they really just need to take the retail-adjacent model artists and reset their design language. Most importantly, undo their cutsey overwatch/disney/focus-grouped everything-has-to-be-pretty tenancies. They have the capability, but they just aren't committing.
Gaming was entirely different back then. What some people want today simply cant exist because the community wont allow it. There is no mystery to these things anymore because it was solved in data mining.
Jesus you people are so pathetic, you created some sort of conspiracy around how models look. This is so stupid. The only opposition you have will be people saying that it's not a big deal (including me)
Also it's not an either or, one is a pet another one is a mob
They're two separate art styles. Babies dont look like plush toys IRL they look like adorable, snotty messes. A baby of the one on the left wouldnt look like the one on the right.
Are you actually trying to argue that the baby version ISNT Disney vs the adult??? Lmao come on now, that shit doesn't belong with the classic styling in any way. To say differently is just being difficult for no reason.
They are the same complaining about the new datamined turtle while the original was already there back then and was already looking cute and "disney" af.
Baby murloc was a pet from TBC collector. Same for the baby netherwing drake.
I can’t believe these raging people are mostly grown ass dudes who can’t even remember that some of these things were already implemented in their "dark, violent and full of testosterone game".
But they are probably the same who were bullying blood elves players for being f-word or this kind of sh*t.
And the fact that you can just buy it now makes it feel even less special
I don't get this argument. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the cash shop or the art style of anything from it, and I have zero plans to ever purchase any items on offer, but they're clearly different things. The original Sprite Darter pet is still in the game, and it's still obtained the same way. A different looking thing being obtained in a different way doesn't take away what you already had or the effort you put in to obtain it. If you go on an adventure with your OG Sprite Darter, no one is going to look at you and go "I bet they bought it", because that's not how it's obtained. I would dare say that makes it more special, because it sets you apart from people too lazy to obtain the real thing on their own.
One of the core parts of Classic is what I would call a “gear flex”. Basically sitting around in a main city with your cool shit, and people either knew you put in some work to get said cool shit, or wanted to know how to get it. Yes, there’s very much an ego part of it, but that’s part of the mystique. You can’t tell me you’ve never said holy shit and ran a little further up the bank steps just to inspect the guy rocking a Thunderfury and t3, or the bloodfang rogue with badass swords etc….
That completely goes away when you can just buy the stuff. Then you get a clown world type of environment like retail where there’s too much random shit and half of it is just something someone paid $20 for.
That doesn’t even take into consideration the art style clash. Clearly, the original team had a much different style than the modern team
But if the bought things are visually distinguishable from the stuff that was earned, how does that make the earned stuff less impressive? If I saw two players standing side by side, each with a different version the Sprite Darter pet, I know which one I would respect more.
You miss the point. It's being thematic. Those giant cute anime eyes don't fit in the classic design even by classics cute designs these are just retail slop.
Watched a video of Xaryu watching a new player compare retail and classic. It’s absolutely hilarious when she describes classic as whimsy and Xaryu’s like “What?! classic is whimsy?! I don’t see that at all”
Like bro the Warcraft universe has always had cute or whimsy things going back to Warcraft 1.
nah dude, this is peak manliness about **war**. dont you see how they look exactly like metzens 30 year old gruesome and definitely not ripped out of Warhammer sketches?
you can tell this is manly and not whimsy because you can count the polygons on the mohawk goblin with tnt strapped to his chest, the goblin hiding in a literal explosive barrel, and the goblin with a cartoon sized rocket strapped on his back thats wearing a literal pickelhaube
What he’s saying is that the creature looks more natural and like it follows some rules of biology to make it more believable as an actual animal. The thing on the right looks like candy for predators, like it just has a sign on it that says “eat me”. It’s like the difference between the biology on Scavenger’s Reign and the biology of Spongebob. One obviously took a lot more thought into how these creatures would live and work and the other one said “lol cute talking sponge”. This isn’t a dig on Spongebob, I love it, it’s just an example of the different priorities that go into creature/character design.
There are different styles of cuteness. The post illustrates it quite well, I think, since it's (supposedly) the same type of creature. They don't belong in the same game, if there's any degree of cohesive artistic direction.
People in these comments don't even know what they're complaining about.
The left image isn't from vanilla/classic. That's the updated "retail" model that was updated in Legion. If you look at the vanilla model - it does indeed look more like a murloc with wings than a lizard. If anything, the classic model is more cartoony than the current Legion model.
The one on the right looks fine as a baby variant of the classic model, other than it's HD.
It's possible to convey cute without going this far into cartoon exaggeration. But the old models will always have a bit of gruff, coarse "realism" to them that we won't see anymore.
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u/SugarCrisp7 15h ago
The new one looks like a faerie dragon and a murloc had a baby