r/HonestHotTakes • u/Cautious_Buy_8467 • 15h ago
serious hot take women arent dressing for you and assuming so is crazy
the constant assumption men seem to have that women are dressing for THEIR attention or interest is so bonkers insane to me.
I attend pilates, which are classes of all women. almost every woman wears the exact same thing there as she would in any other gym, some even dress slightly lighter/in tighter clothes than typical because they feel MORE comfortable in a closed area with only women. if women were dressing for mens attention, why would they be wearing the exact same outfits to workout with other women?
On top of that, why would women go to womens only gyms if they were apparently dressing for an excuse to be stared at? please think with your head and not your duck for 2 seconds, thank you
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u/False_Parfait_460 15h ago
I mostly just dress in hopes that other women will come up to me, say they like my outfit, and then I can tell them where I got it and make pleasant conversation that occasionally leads to friendship (I shop a lot of vintage, so I have actually made quite a few acquaintances/friends this way!)
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u/Enticing_Venom 15h ago
I consistently dress for men. If there were no men to see me in public, I'd go topless.
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u/Either_Proof938 13h ago
Word sometimes I’m like, this fit is hot, but I don’t wanna deal with the googly eyes today.
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u/ViolentLoss 13h ago
Right? Not even if an outfit is particularly attractive. Shorts and a t-shirt or tank out to the grocery store, getting looks, getting comments. It's slightly better if I cover up with a hoodie. Like what the hell.
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u/Either_Proof938 12h ago
Thank god I live in one of the few cities in the world where catcalling is extremely uncommon.
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u/Charming_Parking_302 12h ago
I stopped wearing a bra during Covid and never went back. I honestly don’t care what anyone thinks. Man or woman. It’s more comfortable for me without one
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u/Enticing_Venom 12h ago
Oh, same. I refuse to wear bras anymore. I'm sure some men have decided I'm "a whore" because I don't want to be uncomfortable but they can wear a harness on their chest if it's so important to them.
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u/Revolution_Vanguard 14h ago
I'm in a position that, as a man, I understand how I dress will very much determine how I'm treated.
I'm a 6'2 black guy. I work out. And I'm told I have RBF. I intimidate people when I'm literally just thinking about 40k most of the day.
Knowing that I frighten people just by existing, I don't go out in muscle shirts. I never understood the sagging jeans thing because I was raised on a time and place where knowing what that meant. And no durags. Because please believe, most of you would judge me as something I am not if you saw me like that, when I just might be wearing the muscle shirt because it's hot and I'm actually trying to style my hair.
I get wanting to dress for yourself. Every person alive deserves that freedom. A woman's body is her own and no one has any say on what should happen with it save that very woman. On the other side, I've literally had women tell me after getting to know me that if I didn't dress the way I actually do (polos and button downs), they might never have talked to me in just a casual sense because they would be afraid of me.
So while I'm perfectly firm that a woman shouldn't have to deal with judgment or unwanted attention due to how they are dressed... I wish the same for me. And I know quite a few of people who actually know me in real life who are with me on the freedom of the female expression, who actually would understand judging me and treating me differently if I dressed differently.
So I guess my stance is "Leave women the hell alone. But seriously, what is wrong with you society?"
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u/Hunnyby 13h ago
Yeah it really is just an unfortunate thing going on with society. Attesting meaning to the way people dress is pretty wild. Granted, I honestly think I'm pretty decent at it. I think if I saw a man like yourself in a muscle shirt and a durag I'd assume based on the heat of the day and the fact that durags are just hair care.. it doesn't really mean anything about your character. I am sorry that is your experience though! It's shitty blanket statements that lead to this kind of stuff imo.
That being said, I am not above judging off appearance from time to time. Usually it goes beyond just outfit, but at the same time, idk there is a certain style that white men wear that just SCREAMS toxic to me (I'm white if that matters 😅). I don't think I can put it into words (or would want to, because it really isn't just the attire), and I have like insider knowledge that most the time when I've assumed I was right (smaller city, usually I get confirmation bias when I make a new friend and eventually I learn their abusive ex was the guy I ran so fast in the other direction of). Not that it matters, I don't treat them poorly, I just am not gonna give them my number. I've also done the same for people of color.. not a ton in my city, but idk, I don't really think it's the clothes for me, it's just a gut feeling. The last time I tried to ignore it to test myself on the dating apps, the guy talked about wanting to wife me up, he was a pro boxer, and when he got back from Vegas "he'd beat it up." 🤣 Dude actually happened to be wearing a durag, but that wasn't the source of my hesitation.. it was the 80 percent shirtless pics, taking the photo himself and not smiling once..? Etc. Suffice to say, a little judgement of appearance or gut imo is okay, obviously you shouldn't wanna be with people if they couldn't possibly comprehend why a black man might want to wear a durag anyway.. so maybe just do it? You'll scare away people that probably aren't right for you anyway. The real issue is like you said, society, and blanket statements that might lead more people to being ignorant, and thus being scared because of hair care. 🤣
Sorry, don't mean to laugh at you, and I am not. It is shitty. As a woman who wears the clothes that get me called a "slut" anyway, it doesn't make it any less degrading or frustrating, or needed to be talked about and addressed.
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u/Revolution_Vanguard 13h ago
Hey, listen, you have to laugh it off. This world is insane and if we didn't have that wonderful mechanism, we'd all crack eventually.
There is a white guy equivalent, to be sure. Think of a good Ole boy from the South. It all boils down to stereotypes. Or if a guy looks like he's trying to be Andrew Tate 2.0, a woman might be wary that he bought into the island of douche-baggery and he's trying to look like the Alpha.
Also... I sadly do have to worry about the police. Other than skin color, my clothing style also never fits the description. It's more of a protection than most people think about. I don't think there are many BOLOs for a Black Male, knitted polo shirt wearing sensible charcoal chinos 😄.
God, the whole "sl*t" thing. It literally makes no sense. Why does anyone care? Truly, why does anyone care about what they do with their body or other consenting adults? This is your life. This is your time. "Are you happy" is the only thing anyone should have to say about how you dress. Then end it with "Slay the House Down Boots" because I'm obsessed with Matteo Lane and Nick Smith.
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u/Hunnyby 12h ago
Oh my gosh, yeah I wasn't even thinking about the danger with police! Ugh society is broken 😭 Never mind, maybe don't just do it lmao.
Yeaaah I don't get it either. I think the problem IS a woman feeling confident and comfortable is a point of discomfort for some people? Or religious? My own dad thinks like that, and I just recently had a "good" conversation on the topic with him. At first he wanted to go right to "it's wrong and sinful" because he thinks I'm some insane feminist if I say ANYTHING about women and society.. luckily I stayed so calm, which is the only way to get him to drop his defenses and by the end he said.. "yeah I guess I don't care, I'll just enjoy the view.." kind of ridiculous that that statement was a win for me.. but appreciation is a lot better than shame, hate, or judgement. You're right about laughing for sure, because I'm cracking myself up remembering how ecstatic I was to get THAT out of my dad. 🤣
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u/TheCherryPony 10h ago
Was at the gas station one day and a guy similar description as you described yourself except dressed in a muscle shirt and lots of tattoos was walking towards the store. The amount of people who walked the other way or wouldn’t look at him was insane. When he got to the door he opened it for the two women behind him and both ran through and one went ICK. wtf. He saw me walking up (I’m a short female so everyone is tall to me lol) held the door open longer. I told him Thank you sir. Poor guy was so shocked to be thanked and spoken respectfully to. He said thank you so much.
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u/loosesleeves 9h ago
My heart breaks for you, dude. I think POC men probably have a more nuanced understanding of how your clothes determine how you will be treated or looked at today, compared to white men who are living life on default settings.
It’s sad to me to see so many men in the comments saying this pasty mf Shane Gillis was right to call women whores because “that’s what they are if that’s how they’re dressing”. It’s scary when people tell you that you are the slur they’re calling you bc they then think it gives them permission/justification to treat you that way. For women it’s terrifying to think of “being treated like a whore” and everything that comes with that when it comes to male entitlement to women’s bodies. I’d imagine it feels similarly to be a tall black man having people label you something horrific and then justifying the treatment they think you deserve because of that label. In both instances, it’s used as grounds for violence followed up with a “well they shouldn’t have been looking a certain way then”.
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u/Eunomia28 14h ago
I usually wear what makes me feel good. That doesn't mean that I haven't dressed for a man before, but whenever I have done so it has been for a specific man who I'm excited to see.
I have never thought of random men when I dress myself.
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u/HepKhajiit 8h ago
Yeah I've never gotten that concept. Like admittedly I'm a lesbian so I not only don't want male attention I actively avoid it haha. I've never dressed to draw the sexual attention of other women though. Like I love when women compliment my outfit/style cause it's nice to have your work appreciated, but I've never once dressed up like "this is gonna get all the butches to turn their heads" 🤣 I've dressed up extra nice while I'm out with someone I'm interested in, but I've never like, cast out a fishing net made of spank and hair spray trying to see what I catch on a night out.
Also like....I rarely if ever hear women say they don't get as much attention from men as they want. Usually I'm hearing that they get too much attention from men and just want to be left alone. So why is it the assumption that women are dressing up to get all the boys attention when what women are actually saying is I'm sick of the unwanted attention?
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u/Taintedforest 15h ago
Women, do dress for men, men do dress for women.
Women also dress for other woman, and men also dress for other men.
Women dress for themselves, men dress for themselves. Or dont bother wanting to dress at all
People dress certain ways, for different reasons, some of which include attracting a partner, or in general, attracting others.
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u/Sandgrease 15h ago
Right? Who thinks people don't dress to impress...other people? The circumstances are obviously gonna change but unless I'm sitting alone at home, I will unconsciously choose my outfit based on othe people even if it's just "is this appropriate for where I'm gonna be?"
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u/Neverhar 15h ago
Yeah 100% like I don't know how this take is controversial? I'd say 99.9% of people dress in a way that sure, makes them feel confident in themselves, but it's because of what their outward appearance suggests about them and how they're perceived by others.
If people truly only dressed for themselves, they'd look exactly the same at home on a lazy Sunday morning as they do at work, as they do at the store, as they do at a fancy dinner, as they do driving to McDonald's, as they do on a date with a potential partner they're interested in
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u/Iampoorghini 15h ago
Most ppl on Reddit, especially this sub, are social outcasts. So they’ll reject the idea of the natural human tendency to care about how they’re perceived by others
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u/Dasseem 13h ago
I hate how hard this is to understand for some folks. We are social creatures, it's nigh impossible for humans not to think about how our actions affect others or how we want to be perceived.
Social media truly has rotten some people's brains. Apparently now accepting that you might be dressing for somebody else other than yourself is considered loser behaviour or seen as desperate.
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u/IntrusiveThot32 15h ago
I wear revealing clothes to the gym because when I look good I feel good and work out harder. Also I sweat like I'm 400 lb
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u/Lionsmane_099 15h ago
Just an FYI / life tip
You actually sweat less in cotton than lycra / spandex / synthetic fabric blends 👍
Signed - a constantly hot and sweaty MF in TX
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u/S-Kenset 14h ago
Cotton keeps moisture more in general. It may be that texas is dry enough that this counteracts it.
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u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 14h ago
I want to clarify some things.
Cotton does absorb sweat, but you don’t actually sweat less wearing it.
The research out there that compares cotton to polyester hasn’t generally found a significant difference in rates of sweating. If anything, synthetic moisture-wicking fabrics can actually retain less sweat and, under some conditions, even helps with heat regulation.
Basically, feeling less sweaty and producing less sweat aren’t the same thing.
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u/jpatt 13h ago
I get your argument, other than the fact that most ‘women only gyms’ tend to fail.
But also, dress however you want, just don’t get upset if people look at you. When I was younger I had a Mohawk for a time, people would stare. If you dress provocatively or scantily clad, people will stare.
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u/bunnypaste 15h ago
It's true that women aren't usually getting ready for the day with a mindset of maximally appealing to men. It's also true that women dress way more risque in the presence of other women versus mixed company... presumably because they won't recieve the same shaming, judgements, and objectification they'll get around men. It's a safety thing, and so when they feel safer and more respected they wear less.
Sometimes women dress specifically to attract men, but this isn't an every day thing even for those groups. Other times women dress for other women, or specifically for themselves and to align with thier own tastes and self-expression.
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u/Buffalo-magistrate 14h ago
I think women are dressing crazy but they are dressing crazy just to look good, not specifically for men.
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u/ReallySickofit55 14h ago
I wear leggings and a fitted top to work out because I can see my form and it is comfortable. I don’t give s rats ass about what anyone else thinks make or female. Am there to lift heavy and sweat.
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u/doinmy_best 14h ago
I’m an older? (31) women and I am queer so (1) obviously true this is true for me and (2) I am out of touch about what is trendy for most young women. I mean LEZ be honest … queer women are known to have slight different fashion standards.
With that being said I enjoyed reading your post and looking into your world. I’m wondering if that works for most settings. Your post is mostly about the gym but what about at school for example or even on date?
In my community we tend to dress for functionality and confidence (which I assume is same for you) and also the female-gaze. The female gaze is so undefinable it is almost silly people use it. I think it developed to counter the “male gaze” term. It mean different things to different people but to me it means dressing in a way to express your interests or energy in such a way to appeal to women that are drawn to a similar interest or energy.
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u/Empty-Lungs 15h ago
So women are a monolith who never dress to get attention from the opposite gender?
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u/Embarrassed_Spread50 15h ago
I made a similar comment and getting down voted lol
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u/KtinaDoc 14h ago
Absolutely not! We wear 3" heels and tight mini's for women /s
Let's face it, we'd all be braless, wearing sweats, no makeup with our hair pulled back if we didn't care what others thought.
No one is going through the effort because they want to.
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u/Hungry-Plantain-3315 14h ago
I’d definitely dress more scantily clad if it wasn’t for male attention.
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u/Pigeonpal 6h ago
I’m in a commited relationship with a woman and do not care about impressing men in the slightest, but I still go out in clothes that make me feel hot because they make me feel hot, and I like that feeling. It’s cool that you and a lot of other women feel the way you do, but some of us genuinely enjoy clothes and makeup as forms of self-expression.
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u/Negative-Gene-4959 15h ago
Going to the other end and claiming it's for comfort is not doing you any favors. You are lying to yourself. This is not a honest hot take, it's just a lie.
Humans do not generally wear clothes strictly for comfort. Or we would all wear sweat pants and hoodies every day.
People dress to express their personality and to highlight certain features. We choose colors that highlight skin or eyes. Cuts that highlight figure....
I would say people don't usually dress exclusively for the other gender, but they are dressing indeed to be aesthetically appealing which certainly includes looking good for the other gender.
Honestly, what looks good to the same gender is also what is sexually appealing to the other gender. They are one in the same.
Everyone regardless of orientation agree men look hot in fitted suits. And women look hot in form fitting cocktail dresses in heels.
People wear those to look hot.
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u/Lazy-Conversation-48 14h ago
Men absolutely have had periods in fashion where they wear or wore revealing clothes. You all are maybe too young to remember the 70s and 80s, but crop tops short shorts, speedos and singlets absolutely were a thing.
I really don’t understand why young people especially these days are such a bunch of judgmental prudes.
Or is it just the subset of people who are perpetually online and have nothing else going on?
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u/Negative-Gene-4959 13h ago
Oh glad you agree, clearly those men didn't wear that purely for comfort or they would be still wearing those today.
They wore it because they believed they looked good in them
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u/Lazy-Conversation-48 12h ago
Have you ever tried a crop top in hot weather? An undercarriage breeze feels amazing.
Perhaps men’s insistence on baggy denim or basketball shorts is more the sacrifice for fashion that you should be considering. It might be that short shorts are super comfy and men are just suffering for fashion dragging all that fabric around.
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u/Puma_Pounce 14h ago
And the tight leggings in all the Hair Metal videos, that said this isn't specifically all coming from young people.
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u/DoodooDynamic 13h ago
I would exist in a hefty bag if I could. Or a Snuggie. Maybe I’m old now but if I’m wearing something that feels uncomfortable from a sensory aspect, it’s all I can think about until I get home and put on a fleece tent.
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u/VegaGT-VZ 14h ago
I am a dude and I wear all that Lycra shit when I ride my road bike because loose clothes are like a parachute. I do pick colors and patterns I like but I'm not dressing up to look good to the opposite sex. I think you are projecting your priorities and assumptions on everyone else.
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u/ParumPaDrumDrum 9h ago
Okay so you dress for minimal wind resistance when BIKING. Tell me, how much wind resistance is one facing doing squats in a gym?
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u/No_Lettuce_2652 13h ago
Do your Lycra shorts lift and seperate your butt cheeks ?
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u/Negative-Gene-4959 13h ago
Yes, men do indeed wear clothes to match particular functions. You point is totally lost on me.
And humans do indeed sometimes wear hoodies and sweat pants.
A huge chunk of the time people don't wear clothes to match function, instead it's to highlight their appearance. Optimizing your appearance is by definition dressing to be observed.
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u/BlurplesMcDerp 12h ago
Cool story...tell me you don't know anything about men without telling me...
Lots of men already know this.
Sometimes women dress for themselves, sometimes for other women, and sometimes for men.....psst....men do the same thing.
Men are not a monolith either. But keep defeating stereotypes...by stereotyping....because some comedian upset you...
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u/Dddddd92 15h ago
I put more effort to impress women. I already have a man and he doesn't care what I wear. I look homeless around him most of the time.
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u/birthdaycheesecake9 15h ago
I feel like women tend to be better at picking up on the details. Like yes I did match my socks to my shirt and I am wearing tastefully mismatched earrings, thank you for noticing!
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u/Dddddd92 15h ago
Very early in our relationship I wore a different shade of blush for a change and asked him how does he like my cheeks. He said "oh yeah you put stuff on it" 😪
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u/thelifeofafangirl 14h ago
Why? I put way more effort into dressing for my man, i could care less what other people think, women included lol. He's the one who basically dedicated his life to giving me everything i could ever want so he's the one who gets my best
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u/Cautious_Buy_8467 15h ago
yea if I know im gonna be around women im more likely to put in effort because theyre all pretty and I want to feel pretty too lmao
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u/methbabie 15h ago
Literally men will sleep with anything to get their nut off dressing for their attention when you could get it in a burlap sack is so stupid 😭
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u/peterthehermit1 13h ago
This discourse is so funny. Look I don’t care what women wear to the gym. And those tight gym shorts look awesome lol. With that said I can remember how ten years ago, even less, these outfits did not exist, and women were wearing similar things as men. Like running shorts and tee shirts or normal leggings/yoga pants.
Is it really so out of line to ask “why do some women need to wear shorts that gives them a wedgie? Or a top that is skimpier than some lingerie?”. Some of these tops make a sports bra look like a burqa. Women are obviously wearing the wedgie shorts because it makes their butts look good. Seriously, when they wear those shorts, do you want guys to checkout your butts or not?
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u/cyrusm_az 13h ago
They only want the hot guys checking their butts out. Or the hot women if they’re bi or lesbian
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u/cmbtmstr 12h ago
Just like they call ugly guys that ask them out creeps and then complain when men stop asking women out.
Turns out it’s because they only wanted to be asked out by the hot guy.
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u/courtd93 12h ago
Idk where you’ve been but women have been wearing tight clothes to the gym since the 80s at least
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u/Toosder 11h ago
Seriously. Look at those old Jane Honda aerobic videos. Men just want to blame women because they can't control their own sexual reaction.
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u/Frobizzle 11h ago
If you dont want attention don't dress in a way that invites it. It's really that simple.
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u/okbrat00111011 12h ago
Because is functional. Wearing little clothing is nice because it gets hot during a workout. I’m not a weightlifter but it seems like weight lifting types wear the wedgie shorts, perhaps it’s easier to see the muscles just like a guy who wears a tank top can see his arms while working out.
Women have been wearing bike shorts and bras to work out longer than 10 years.
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u/Suitable_Sample7550 9h ago
it’s not functional ill say this I was a college athlete no actual female athlete for ANY actual sport I’ve seen through the years ever worked out in clothes that the average women do in a commercial gym. they want attention it’s that simple.
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u/heartfeltfrog 15h ago
Every time I have a man communicate that he thinks women are dressing for attention from men, I ask them if they’ve ever seen the way women dress when they don’t expect ANY men to be there at all.
You gon’ see a lot more “whores” when the girls actually feel safe.
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u/Possible-Compote-733 15h ago
If the world were just women, trust me - my outfits would show a lot more skin, be far more daring, and full of fantasy. If anything, male gaze only keep me from playing around even more with different silhouettes, cuts, and textures.
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u/Consistent_Key4156 15h ago
If the world were just women, some of us probably go around nude half the time, honestly. Or at least topless when it's hot, like guys do.
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u/Future-Fall9939 11h ago
I think this is bullshit. I think women dress skimpy because they want everyone to think they look as good as they think they look. Women want to impress other women the same way they want to impress other men. So whether it’s for men or women isn’t the crux of the conversation. The point is they dress that way for attention. They like to think they look good. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. But it is complete bullshit when they say “I dress like this for meeeee!” lol no you don’t
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u/xPalacex 15h ago edited 15h ago
The whole “doing it for myself” thing is fucking crazy lol. And “doing it for myself” is a roundabout way of saying “I feel more confident when I think other people will think I’m hot based on what I’m wearing.”
Until you’re dressing the same way “for yourself” when you’re home alone on a Sunday afternoon watching movies and ordering takeout food while it’s pouring rain outside, I don’t want to hear about this nonsense anymore.
This also isn’t even a judgement or whatever. There’s nothing morally wrong or bad about wanting to look put together or a certain way in front of other people. I don’t know why people are in such extreme denial over it. When I dress up to go downtown for drinks with my friends, it’s because I want people to think I look hot and have a good outfit on. There’s nothing wrong with that and I don’t understand why people insist there is.
The fact that women are so extremely sensitive over this joke is more of a tell on themselves than anything else. Just chill out.
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u/juniperfield 14h ago edited 14h ago
You can still be dressing up to feel good about yourself and not do it all the time, like only saving it for when you go out. It takes energy to come up with a good look. It can still be for oneself even if other people see the outfit. A lot of people don’t even notice the details of other peoples’ getups out in the world, but to the person dressing up, being around other people heightens the sense of it having meaning and reflects back to oneself through their senses, like when you show someone who’s visiting a landmark that you’ve driven past to a million times and it‘s a reminder about its significance. It’s a way of reminding oneself of one’s value in a social context.
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u/cchikorita 7h ago
"It’s a way of reminding oneself of one’s value in a social context."
Typed all that to end with the explicit acknowledgement that your perceived value does, in fact, rely on whether others find you physically attractive lmfao.
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u/diabeticweird0 14h ago
Looking good when going out is for yourself
Looking schlumpy when staying home is also for yourself
Yourself has different wants and needs at different times
I'm covered in dirt from gardening half the time when I'm home. Wearing a cute fit to garden can be fun (I have adorable overalls) but it's not the same fit i wear at a restaurant
and saying "you don't dress up at home alone so it's definitely for other people" is just kind of weird
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u/ItsAmory 13h ago
If you stretch the definition of “for myself” so much then I could argue that dressing for male (or any) attention also is “for herself”, naturally, it circles back to it.
She is dressed in fancy clothes, so people notice her, so she feels good about herself being noticed, therefore it’s for herself.
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u/illini02 15h ago
I think speaking in absolutes is ridiculous.
No, women aren't always dressing for male attention. But to pretend they NEVER do it is equally ridiculous.
People, not just men or not just women, often dress ways to get validation from others. That is ok.
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u/Agreeable_Inside_878 15h ago
Or maybe, just maybe…Hear me out!….Maybe some women do and some women don’t….like they arent all the same person, thats a crazy thought isnt it?
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u/ConsiderationSea1347 14h ago
Or hear me out: maybe even the same woman sometimes dresses for male attention and sometimes doesn’t.
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u/Suspicious_Cherry424 13h ago
“Dressing for themselves” never made any sense to me. Fashion and what you wear is fundamentally an interaction between you and the society and the culture in which you inhabit. Even if you got dressed up and stared at yourself in the mirror with no one else around your choices for how you dress are informed by cultural and societal norms of dress which you are using to judge your own appearance. If you are dressing up “just to feel and look good” you are doing so in consideration of what you think looks good which is informed by other people’s perceptions of what looks good. We are fundamentally social creatures inhabiting a space with a social fabric and fashion is one of the main ways with how we engage with that fabric.
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u/Frylock_dontDM 11h ago
Damn beat me to it.
I can believe someone is dressed for themselves if they're wearing some completely off the wall not currently acceptable shit.
Like dressing as a 1920s or Victorian style which would be largely thought of as incredibly strange (which can still be for attention) can absolutely be done for one's self.
It's funny that "dressing for yourself" seems to coincidentally mean "outfits that are within the current Overton window of what's considered attractive"
Strange how that seems to align, but also has nothing to do with the approval of others
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u/Dramatic_Repeat_2230 14h ago
Exactly, this is an excuse used by many CREEPS. I was told something about how I was dressed by a CREEPER. I get so harassed at gyms I cannot even go anymore!
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u/Linazoidian 14h ago
We can’t generalize everyone and put everyone into the same box.
Some women dress for others’ approval. Some don’t. Some do sometimes, some do never. Some dress for comfort or functionality. Everyone is unique and has their own reasons for doing whatever it is that they’re doing.
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u/GoldemEmperor 14h ago
There is no one answer. Women dress for men, for women, for themselves, etc.
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u/Key_Mathematician951 14h ago
OP, are you saying women don’t dress for men at all? That would be a baseless argument if so.
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u/DeepPlunge 15h ago
You probably don't want to admit it, but most heterosexual women basically live for validation, mostly male validation, and indirectly female validation (in the shape of making other women envious of how much male validation they get or would get).
And that is honestly fine. Like, we are all human, of course we want to be attractive. You can lie about it, but everyone with half a brain knows the truth.
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u/FlamePiranha 11h ago
Yeah. We're social animals. Babies cry if they don't get attention because that's an innate human need.
Our needs do grow more complex as we mature, but at the core, some people crave attention more than others. If there is a path of least resistance to get attention, of course somebody would take it.
Common sense that most people look for the easy way out.
It's disingenuous to say that female influencers on social media only post to boost their business or to feel confident.
What's the difference between feeling confident in private and in public or an online platform? It's because you're getting likes, which is a metric of how much attention you're receiving and that feeds your ego.
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u/lost__icon 14h ago edited 13h ago
Ladies, please tell me if I’m wrong, but I get the impression for this post isn’t talking about specific times that women dress, but rather the male propensity to assume that all expressions of beauty and feminine attractiveness are uniquely possessed by them to enjoy. Just the general way of speaking about attractiveness in Women as that it’s only possible to be meant for men which is a myopic and absurd statement, but as men, we seem to do that.
Woman body=for men’s consumption
We don’t own feminine beauty, it isn’t made for us. Straight men happen to deeply enjoy it, but that doesn’t give us possession of it.
Sometimes women do dress for the male gaze! That doesn’t mean we own it every time a woman looks sexy. We could do a lot more to speak about women without possessive assumptions.
Said from the comfort of masculinity
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u/DoodooDynamic 13h ago
Well said. I remember a time when my algorithm led me to Jordan Peterson’s videos, and at first they seemed harmless enough. Lots of “get up and make your bed” and deep dives into Pinocchio-kind of stuff. But then I, as a woman, came across a video of him arguing that women who wear red lipstick are signaling openness to sexual intercourse from men. As if it’s the same as a lioness in heat spraying everywhere and panting. That was a hard no and completely disgusted me. I wear red lipstick sometimes because I want to feel fancy. Not because I’m ovulating and want some rando to procreate with. The fact that his perspective is considered “scientific fact” by his devoted followers is deeply troubling and reduces all of us (men and women) to base animal instincts.
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u/lost__icon 12h ago
Ugh that was a gross moment. Yeah I was getting drawn into his stuff until it became clear that it amounted to apologetics for red pill thinking and lets men off the hook for feeling entitled. I had to do some serious reckoning with myself and what I’d casually agreed with… it’s enticing when you’re hurting, but sure makes you feel dirty when you step back and think about dignity.
I’m certainly not perfect as a man, but I’m trying to remain responsible for my thoughts and feelings. And to treat women as fully realized beings and not an extension of men. Y’all are entitled to that, bare minimum (but you don’t need me to say that 🤦)
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u/wenevergetfar 13h ago
Thank god someone with some fucking sense. Im a fem4fem lesbian. I dress feminine and hot for the attention of other feminine hot women that want attention. Femininity is not owned by the male gaze. Women very much find it hot too!
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u/Jumpy_Prize 12h ago
I'll second this as a bisexual feminine woman with a leaning towards feminine women. Every woman I dated was feminine and hot. My first marriage was to a woman like this and she was gorgeous and not at all interested in the male gaze.
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u/parasyte_steve 12h ago
People certainly do dress for the affection of men and women, and tbh there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with that either. When men do it, it gets called peacocking and its fun but when women do it they get torn a new asshole. IMO this is because women on average just look better than men (sorry guys), and its threatening to them. So while they hype each other up for doing this shit they're threatened by a woman who knows she's beautiful. It's the ONE thing they cannot have power over us for.
So I think that's why this attitude of "never show yourself off for others" exists. I personally find it dumb as hell. Dress how you want to dress, attract who you want to attract and look sexy and feel good.
Personally I dress nice etc because I am a musician and I like to look like who I am. My image is important to that and I never go to an event (even not my own gigs ANY event) without getting dolled up. I call it the Dolly Parton approach lol
So I think you should NEVER assume why a person is dressing some way. They likely aren't doing it for specifically you, and theres usually a host of reasons that go into why people dress the way they do.
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u/PsychologicalTax9927 15h ago
What is that Ursula Le Guin quote about dressing for the man inside your head? But yeah I get the point.
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u/ArtAndHotsauce 14h ago edited 14h ago
It’s a Margaret Atwood quote and it’s not about dressing for the man in your head.
It’s about the horrible pressure of constantly being watched by the male gaze implanted in your head.
“Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur.“
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u/Simple_Pianist4882 14h ago
The bastardizing of quotes for people’s narrative/agenda is so crazy 😭
They do it with MLK too.
Le Guin CRITICIZED the idea of everything being male centered; she didn’t write about a “man inside woman’s head.” I wish people utilized Google more.
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u/ArtAndHotsauce 14h ago edited 14h ago
Le Guin also acknowledged the existence of male centered societies and mentalities.
In The Disposessed, Vea (a rich socialite) brags about how she, as a woman, really has all the power because she is able to manipulate the men who think they have power over her. Then Shevek says that makes her dangerious. She replies:
“Dangerous!” Vea laughed radiantly. “What an utterly marvellous compliment! Why am I dangerous, Shevek?”
[Shevek replies]
“Why, because you know that in the eyes of men you are a thing, a thing owned, bought, sold. And so you think only of tricking the owners, of getting revenge –”...
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u/PsychologicalTax9927 10h ago
I'm not pro objectification. I was reinforcing OP's point.
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u/Nearby-Weird9535 15h ago
As a man this describes my feeling exactly. Not sure if I'm different, or times are changing. But the perception of the opposite sex, even just theory, drives a lot of human behavior.
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u/ThisGuy2319 15h ago
Exactly. I don’t know why some women try to make it seem like that’s not the case and use it as a reason for the man to be expected to pay for the date.
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u/Cautious-Mode 14h ago
Start normalizing cheap dates - going for walks, grabbing a small coffee, meeting at the library…
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u/RVDHAFCA 13h ago
Going for dinner is a shit first date, even if it was free. You constantly have food in your mouth, almost no distractions apart from "how is your food", harder to get out of, sitting face to face with each other isnt ideal
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u/Klutzy_Belt_2296 14h ago edited 14h ago
I also support this
More focus on the actual purpose of the date: which is getting to know the other person
It’s funny how your suggestion was one of the most reasonable in this thread and yet your comment got downvoted lmfao
Makes you almost wonder why people are going on many of these dates lmfao 😂
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u/Sufficient_Total7445 15h ago
Women: we don’t dress for you
Also women: I wore this on our first date for you, that means you should pay for the bill
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u/Illustrious_Money_54 15h ago
This argument is so old, they were exclaiming over ankles in the Victorian era and who knows what in ancient China. Men who talk like this are just telling on themselves. They’re giving you important data about themselves and how they see you. Listen. And then act accordingly.
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u/Maewile 13h ago
They dress for other people, as men do. Generally it’s straight men that dictate what clothing etc makes a woman more attractive. So indirectly women dress for men. Some dress for men directly, more dress for women directly.
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u/wenevergetfar 13h ago
Im lesbian and i find sterotypically hot features hot, imagine that. Yknow everything u find hot on a women gay girls would agree
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u/ratttertintattertins 14h ago
Your entire subconscious model of what looks good is based on primal mating/fitness instincts. So even if you say to yourself “I just want to look nice” and even if only other women are present, men will have still factored into that underlying model of what you think looks good and that feeling of satisfaction you have when you feel like you’re out looking good is subtly based on male opinion.
If it’s any consolation, the same is true for us, it just looks different and plays out slightly differently because we’ve always judged by you in a slightly different way.
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u/clowdere 13h ago
This. People are kidding themselves.
I'm a woman who experiences no attraction to men. When I'm putting on mascara to look nice for a special occasion, I'm not doing it to attract men, but I'm conforming to a beauty standard based largely on what men find attractive. It's okay to recognize and admit that.
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u/LoganGrimnard 15h ago
So you're saying that women innately desire to be nude or as close to nude as possible and the only thing stopping them from running around in their birthday suit is men?
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u/OldFreakinNerd 5h ago
Seriously, Dress however you want. All we’re (men) asking is that you don’t take videos at the gym.
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u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 15h ago
This argument boils down to:
"Feminists": Ugh, fucking patriarchy, I wish I didn't have to dress like this, this is hell
Men: Then don't, nobody is forcing you to, hell, we'd prefer less make up
"Feminists": Ugh, fuck off, women don't dress up for you, you are a delusional pig! What will others say if they seem me like that?!
So, a simple question is, which is it? Nobody is making you suffer for fashion, you aren't dressing for men, then why are you putting yourself in that situation?
I mean, a good chunk of people knows this, but you OP clearly don't and are in need of an eye opener
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u/vix_jpeg 15h ago
you’re making up a fake person and conversation to get mad at here, dude. what are you even doing?
OP never said they hate dressing a certain way or anything remotely similar, you’ve constructed that argument all on your own to feel validated in being bitter towards women simply existing
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u/motorwerkx 15h ago
He tried to make the reality of the situation simple for those that don't understand. Clearly some people are a bit slower than others. Then you made up a reason to be mad at them. You could be responding to a woman, you simply don't know and made an assumption. Project much?
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u/Combatenjoyer23 15h ago
The truth is some women decide to dress for men some days. It's not as simple as no woman ever dresses for a man or that they always dress for men.
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u/wherediditrun 14h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation read the "in biology" section.
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u/Berndherbert 14h ago
It makes people uncomfortable to think their behaviors are the outcome of a biological process outside their control and that even their own mind is just a tool of evolution to produce certain outcomes.
As someone who studied primate behavioral ecology in university its difficult for me to understand our behaviors any other way.
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u/FlamePiranha 11h ago
Yeah, I agree. We're not rational animals. We're animals with the faculties for more complex thought, but the animal drives are ever present in our psyches.
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u/JM3541 15h ago
They dress for themselves to feel good and male or female attention validates them. Men with large arms often where tank tops it’s no different. Get over it and learn to take a joke.
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u/Repulsive_Rice4903 15h ago
We're not assuming you're dressing for our attention or interest, it's just that showing off what you had for breakfast will naturally attract the male gaze, women know this, so they shouldn't complain about it. Men like tits, so if you have your tits half hanging out and jiggling about men will look. Men like asses, so if you have your lycra shorts wedged so far into your crack that they can legally be declared as missing then men will look. If you don't want men looking, don't dress like that. Aside from that you absolutely are dressing for male attention you just don't like it when the "wrong guy" gives you that attention.
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u/BitesTheDust55 14h ago
Oh come on. This kind of gaslight is unnecessary. Just lean into it. "I like looking good, and I like it when I get looked at for looking good because it makes me feel good and I take pride in my looks." that's all. The silly facade is pointless.
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u/yakityyakblahtemp 14h ago
How people present themselves is a fairly complex interplay between personal expression and social norms. An easy way to grok it is to think of it like a language. You don't speak for other people's benefit, you may be meaning to say "fuck you". But, you do tend to want to be understood, so what you wear is done with some understanding of how other people will interpret it. So, women don't dress up for the benefit of men, but like men also do, they are dressing up with how other people will perceive it somewhat in mind.
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u/ChampionshipSure9900 14h ago
People wear gym attire to the gym. This is not really the best example.
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u/foleyjo 13h ago
I don't dress for women but if I went out in some tight white short shorts were you could clearly see the outline of my penis, people would have something to say about it and possibly say it was inappropriate.
Now add a camera, me doing exercises that could be considered an attempt to look sexy and enhance the view of my penis in my short shorts and me making a big deal every time someone glanced in my direction or walked in front of the camera and then you have the situation that people complain about.
You are right though, the type of women being discussed are not dressing for me. Because I'm not one of the ones paying on Only fans. If I was then yes they are dressing for me or at least for my money.
Stop pretending this shit isn't happening and that it is acceptable. They give women a bad reputation and the only time people seem to have a problem is when Sydney Sweeney does it
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u/TerrySaucer69 13h ago
Some women aren’t dressing for men’s attention.
Some women are.
Some women are dressing for women’s attention.
No group is a monolith. Including in positive and negative ways.
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u/TheBigFatToad 13h ago
I didn’t realize that cautious buy got elected as the speaker for all women! Congrats!
You don’t speak for all women. And this doesn’t apply to all women either. A good chunk of women aren’t dressing for men.
That being said, there are plenty of women dressing for men.
There is this beautiful thing called nuance that suggests blanket statements like these do not apply to all people.
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u/empire_of_laughs 11h ago
This is silly. Women wear the shorts with built in wedgie, and butt enhancing pads that lift and spread each cheek for comfort? Are men uncomfortable when they wear loose shorts? Are women? Do women wear these same shorts when they are lounging around the house on a lazy day? They want to be comfortable at home so they grab their ass shorts and bikini top? Come on.
The gym is full of good looking people, people go there to look good. Once they look good they want to show it off. Thats fine, its human nature. Men aren't cutting the sleeves off of their shirts or wearing little tank tops for aerodynamics, its too show offf. Its a bunch of good looking people running their testosterone at maximum.
Its totally fine, its human nature to want to peacock.
Now women don't want to show off for men they dont find attractive, they are showing off for Chad, and thats totally fine as well, the gym is full of chads.
Everyone knows this. Arguing that its not the case when everyone knows it is just insulting.
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u/bubblegumwitch23 4h ago
It's so funny because I get attention from men even if I'm dressed like I'm homeless. I'm not interested in their attention, what makes you think that I'd be interested in any other man's attention 99% of the time? Literally for what? I am not attracted nor do I want to speak to 99.9% of men.
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u/Previous-Counter-434 2h ago
For the people who keep saying, “bbbbut they don’t dress the same way at home, obviously they want others to look”, there is a difference between, “I want others to think I look good” and “I want others to be attracted to me/I want to look sexy”, you know? There are so many other messages that can be projected with fashion, besides “looking attractive”. Looking competent, looking intelligent, looking strong and athletic, so on and so forth. Just because some men might be attracted to such appearances doesn’t the attraction is the point.
I’m aroace and have no sexual or romantic interest in anyone whatsoever, and don’t enjoy being the recipient of it, and I still enjoy expressing myself with my fashion when I go out. For example, I’m a metalhead. Sheer tights under a skirt paired with a band tee and lots of accessories is how I show my music taste. Why is the assumption that I have to be looking to attract? If you then ask, “then why dress in an “attractive” manner?” my question would be “why do I have to avoid dressing how I like, to avoid people being attracted?”. Why shouldn’t I get to be able to look in the mirror and think I look good? People enjoy decorating their homes and cars to their liking, why can’t the same apply to our bodies?
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u/Dangerous_Catch7683 2h ago
I prefer women (as a woman) and I still wear tights when I can. I mix it up between tights and sweat pants & pump covers. Sometimes I just wanna get a cute photo that'll show my gains easier than it would if I wore pump covers. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to look cute for yourself or for wanting progress pictures.
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u/Excalitoria 15h ago
I didn’t need to consult a duck for this but my two cents:
1) not everyone is the same. Some people dress to show off, because it makes them feel confident, for attention (even from other women, dressing to look good isn’t just for sex and gay people exist too…), functionality, etc.
2) whether someone is dressing to get people’s attention/to say something about themselves, people will take notice and have opinions about what you’re wearing and that’s fine and normal.
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u/commradd1 15h ago
I think what’s being missed is that dudes that gawk at chicks at the gym or wherever are in large part complete morons and going on a virtue war online isn’t actually going to reach them
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u/Resident-Bowl-5991 15h ago
they should just be naturally selected out, there is no winning with these men. They will always come up with made up things to soothe their small dihs. They are the ones who lust after other people and blame others for their own creepy thoughts.
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u/Resident-Bowl-5991 15h ago
I find it crazy that they blame us when they’re the ones lusting after us themselves.
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u/BK_AllDay_14 14h ago
I have a hard time understanding the concept of showing your entire body in public and then talking shit about anyone who looks at your body parts.
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u/dirtyphoenix54 15h ago
Please. The gym I go to , a woman literally works out in a string bikini. There is no reason to do that at all, unless you are trying to get looks.
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u/StallersJ 15h ago
Maybe she's training for a comp and needs to see how she looks?
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u/motorwerkx 15h ago
She can see that without working out mostly naked. Mirrors exist outside of the gym floor.
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u/dirtyphoenix54 14h ago
If she was practicing posing or something, I could see your argument. But she's doing normal workouts in a string bikini. Not even shorts and a bikini top. My gf is a personal trainer at the gym, has mixed feelings about the Gillis thing, but also thinks this woman is going out of her way to be as visible as possible in as little as possible.
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u/ExposedNerdEnding 15h ago
Right and let me guess I’m also beyonce and the audience is cheering you on right now
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u/commonsenseithink 15h ago
There's a handful of women that go to my gym that wear less clothes to walk on the treadmill than what my wife wears to the beach with more makeup on that what she wears to go work, and this is at 6 am. If you are saying they aren't wearing it for the men at the gym, and I'm not saying they are... I do wonder what is going on in their heads.
You woke up at 5 am in the morning to go walk half naked in a room full of people?
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u/qerecoxazade 15h ago
Just a reminder for everybody in the comments...
Women aren't a monolith. Some women dress for the male gaze. Some women dress for the female gaze. Some women dress for just themselves. Some women like the outfits of other women, buy something similar, and use the exact same outfit to dress for a totally different reason than the person who wore it originally. And some women dress for a combination of some or all of these reasons.