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u/laitymotels 21h ago
I think overthinking causes more sadness than intelligence itself. Sometimes knowing when to stop analyzing is its own kind of wisdom.
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u/Hllknk 20h ago
It is named overthinking for a reason. I can't stop it. It is always there. It's not something I choose to do deliberately
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u/somanyquestions32 9h ago
There are ways to relax your body and mind so that the overthinking stops on its own.
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u/External-Gur7228 19h ago
You choose not to stop it. It is possible
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u/IWantedCrow 18h ago
You have a personal internal experience, I have my own. I cannot stop my thoughts, ever. If I could, I would pay anything to do so in a heartbeat.
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u/why_1337 11h ago
It's not the solution but some people start drinking. It helps while you are drunk, then it's even worse once you are sober so you drink some more.
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u/bigwidechungus 5h ago
I am a chronic over thinker. but to think it's impossible to overcome is pure ego. you're not the guy with the most thoughts of all time.
Whole religions have formed around the power to stop thinking. Do you think you're just more of a thinker than various Buddhas? Get real. I'm certain they overthink all the time. And then they don't, because they practice not thinking.
Read Alan Watts. then you meditate. you simply do it. you breathe, and only breathe, and whenever your mind wanders from sitting and breathing, you say "oh yeah, I am thinking again" and return to breathing consciously.
breathe with Sandy online. be careful tho, you don't want to breathe too much or you can have dangerous psychedelic experiences. I'm not joking. it releases DMT.
yoga with gymnastic movements is popular because the strain of the body and the need to breathe at the same time overwhelm your thoughts, and you will find you cannot breathe and think about very much. That isn't accessible to everyone, which is why I recommend Sandy first. He is just breathing
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u/IWantedCrow 5h ago
Okay I actually love this because you pushed back against something without recognizing your own / other people’s internal bias. You know why only certain people practice meditation? Because it’s not a universal thing, doesn’t work for everyone.
You have a personal experience, I have my own. I cannot stop my thoughts, ever.
I’ve been in the literary world of internal experiences ever since I ‘discovered’ my aphantasia and (now named) hyperauralia around 8 years ago. I might have some other junk going on as well…
I have tried fucking everything. Meditation? Waste of time. I once sat for 4 hours with no entertainment or distractions, as a final test towards the end of practicing meditation for the better of a year. Never could stop the chain. There’s breaks here and there that don’t last longer than a couple seconds at most. I’ve tried sensory deprivation to no avail. Name a ‘technique’ to calm your internal thoughts and I’ve tried it (not just once, I give them at least three shots each) and it’s failed. I can slow the thoughts if I ‘play’ a song in the back of my head, but they never leave.
It makes most entertainment hell for me as of late, as I just constantly think about other things. You could probably attribute it to a short attention span or possible ADHD, or maybe I’m just rotted, but I genuinely cannot stop my thoughts.
But honestly if you have any resources that seem fringe or unheard of please let me know. This is a battle I’m constantly trying to fight, and I am open to anything.
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u/bigwidechungus 4h ago
I simply believe based on what I know about brains that they can enter states where they aren't able to handle the through line, the monologue. That the monologue can be broken.
I have ADHD as hell, I do NOT stop thinking ever at any point in my day. That is, there is always a monologue. Constantly. And almost constantly there are background thoughts, many several of them buzzing around the monologue. The zen is... Too advanced for me I think, that I cannot sit still at my current power levels. It's not that I think I'm above it, it's tht I'm too weak for it. The people who do it are more powerful than me. Not that they think less.
At times, I have achieved a state of repetetive monologue with the buzzing silenced by extreme Hatha yoga. That is, gymnastic movements. The proprioceptive feedback takes the place of conscious thinking, I think. Then I can only think "in, out, in out." And when it wavers, I think "form" and tighten up form. And the monologue becomes focused, and the buzzing calms
Other times, I can zen out when playing the drums or listening to metal music.
It hasn't ever fully disappeared. So I relate to your statements. But I think I'm just too weak. Too attached to the monologue to commit to the practice. That's my bias, I suppose. I speak from the place of a novice with faith in something I've only tasted
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u/External-Gur7228 5h ago
Several years ago I read some books and tried some things I was not technically prepared for during academic study. I was engaging in a skeptical participation for the reason of studying and discounting archaic and esoteric practices. I experienced some things and noticed some indicators during my experience that described the process was successful. This frightened me to an extent, but I also I experienced something that has been studied and written about for a long time, which I had initially been skeptical of. I never tried it again for fear I might actually do something wrong and mess something serious up.
During the actual moment, I had an experience I have never felt before which I will not describe in whole. But it lasted for several hours, and I fell asleep during this experience and awoke with a totally changed perspective on the entirety of existence.
My academic study was comparing certain methods between three different practices which are centralized in separate locations but are supposedly rooted in the same pathway, approached and described in different ways.
As it happens, I'm starting my official study tomorrow. I wont mention this to anyone in real life.
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u/IWantedCrow 5h ago
Now I’m curious, what?
None of what you said meant anything to me unless you’re trying to tell us you tripped on shrooms and it changed your life. If you have some secret holistic therapy that changes lives, send it my way lol.
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u/External-Gur7228 4h ago
It is dangerous to engage in without a teacher.
Given that specific information, I believe you have the resources at this very moment to approach the topic and discover the thing you are asking about.
You'll likely find one of three methods, of varying practice and difficulty. Depending on the state of your body it may be unattainable, but if it's what you're seeking you might as well try to find a teacher. I waited 11 years.
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u/bigwidechungus 1h ago
if you don't mind sharing your study, I'm interested! even in a dm. both your personal practice that led to your experience and your field of scholarship
for me I had only done breathing exercises and experienced a brief vision of Guan Yin. I was predisposed to this, because of my study of her, and I am skeptical of anything divine. but the esoteric is so beautiful.
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u/Hllknk 17h ago
It is literally not. There are stuff to help mitigate it and I already use them. But it is not possible to just "choose" it.
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u/__e_n_t_r_o_p_y__ 17h ago
Serious point: have you tried meditation?
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u/Hllknk 15h ago
I thought about it but not really. One time I stood against a wall for 10 minutes. It was not bad but nothing groundbreaking.
I'm not sure because I'm not diagnosed but I most likely have Adhd
How to meditate?
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u/bigwidechungus 5h ago
read Alan Watts. then you meditate. you simply do it. you breathe, and only breathe, and whenever your mind wanders from sitting and breathing, you say "oh yeah, I am thinking again" and return to breathing consciously.
breathe with Sandy online. be careful tho, you don't want to breathe too much or you can have dangerous psychedelic experiences. I'm not joking. it releases DMT.
yoga with gymnastic movements is popular because the strain of the body and the need to breathe at the same time overwhelm your thoughts, and you will find you cannot breathe and think about very much.
I am a chronic over thinker. but to think it's impossible to overcome is pure ego. you're not the guy with the most thoughts of all time.
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u/External-Gur7228 4h ago
People did not like this. It is difficult.
Still possible though! I did it.
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u/TheMeshDuck 15h ago
I don't need to overthink about the fact that exploitation is the law of the land to be sad about it. That we could likely increase everyone's quality of life if we cared enough to.
I could go on, I just don't go insane by being lucky enough to compartmentalize it that it's not always there, but I think the more things you understand about the world, it'd be weird if it didn't make you sad.
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u/million_open_windows 15h ago
“Ignorance is bliss” is a far more succinct description of the same observation. No need to make a more complicated version.
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u/Trying131 14h ago
Also kind of wrong. He is talking about knowledge and says it's intelligence.
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u/Admirable_Dirt_2371 14h ago
Knowing and understanding are quite different.
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u/Trying131 13h ago
And still not related to "intelligence"
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u/Admirable_Dirt_2371 13h ago
Eh, I would say understanding requires intelligence, knowledge doesn't. It's easy to know(memorize) that the sky appears blue. But it's difficult and requires intelligence and understanding to explain why the sky appears blue.
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u/Trying131 12h ago
One thing I got studying some cognitive psychology at uni is that I don't even want to define "intelligence". I don't think one intelligence exists or can be replicated.
Also, although you're mostly correct, some knowledge is difficult and some understanding is easy. Although I misused knowledge in my first comment (misremembered the quote while commenting), I don't think there are absolutes regarding these and that he is still using "intelligence" incorrectly.
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u/million_open_windows 13h ago
Good point. So it’s a generally clunky and inaccurate statement. Nothing to preach about.
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u/Intrepid_Alarm5428 19h ago
Yes. The worst thing is, knowing how great the world would be if most people weren't so stupid.
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u/ComprehensiveShip720 16h ago
Or a portion of people being terrible souls in general.
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u/bigwidechungus 5h ago
your judgement of good and bad souls, your aspirations of a better world are proof of 2 things: the absolute beauty of humankind, and the fact that the world is becoming a better place
the first is true because you are a beautiful creature for wanting better for those who suffer. the second is true because wanting a universally prosperous and clean world is the spirit of modernity. this idea could not exist in prior ages
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u/Low_Technician7346 17h ago
Intelligence is not knowledge.
Intelligence helps in life (per exemple figure out things) and knowledge also does help us improving as individuals.
Per exemple an intelligent person invited at someone's home notice shoes are put in the hallway. This intelligent person will figure out he has to removes his/hers before entering.
Knowledge is like learning new things, per exemple how to ride a bike or a car, or how to cook. It makes us more happy the more we improve knowledge. As said Spinoza, each of these steps that make someone better is providing him/her happiness. The goal in life.
What those sad posts say in my opinion is that we are much aware of the sad news and they are sad passions. The world faced in history tragic events and it did not stop humanity.
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u/HarderTime89 13h ago
I'd take emotional intelligence over "intellect" any day of the week... and I got hit with a combo of mental illnesses.
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u/RudeSelf3418 15h ago
"The greater my wisdom, the greater my grief. To increase knowledge only increases sorrow."
Ecclesiastes 1:18
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u/Back-At-It-2026 20h ago
Completely.
Not only you do realize about more things, most things being negative, but there is also another problem: intelligent people are good at thinking, so they do their thing, and think.
And thinking for the sake of thinking, without directing it towards actually producing results / solutions, produces anguish, and anguish produces suffering and sadness.
So yes, if you are not dead set into fixing the world or have a clear goal in mind, you are better served being an imbecile.
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u/Modern_Agnotologist 10h ago
It's alarming how much human suffering is willfulness instead of accident.
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u/Zen_Traveler 20h ago
Part of this may be related to loneliness. The idea of the deep thinker as one who sees the world differently than most, and says things that show their innate curiosity of the world, society, human behavior. But to some, or most, they might view the deep thinker as a threat for questioning things they don't, saying things they might not understand. As a way to protect themselves from this thinker, the other person gets labeled weird, strange, odd. They become an outcast. Ingroup/outgroup dynamics.
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u/somanyquestions32 9h ago
Highly disagree. It's caused by strong emotional attachments and mental fixations. Unmanaged neuroticism and nervous system dysregulation is not equivalent to intelligence.
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u/AtTheEndOfTheDay18 6h ago
It really depends, and more often than not, you're better off having a full understanding of things so that you can make better decisions. Ignorance is not bliss.
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u/Impressive-Sand-3147 24m ago edited 1m ago
I don’t want to know my life is propped up by slavery and exploitation in the modern world. If I have to bring kids into this world I slip further into the exploitation.
It’s absurd that just because I was born in a different zip code I can exploit these people and it runs deeper than just not buying or upgrading.
I watch the Congo men dive deep into mines on the very phone they helped make yet see no equivalent compensation.
I know about the bombs left in my home country and agent orange and I pay taxes to the government that continue to hide it.
I know there is a reddit dedicated to the exploitation of females from my home country and my money funds a system that benefits retirees there.
I wish I didn’t know these things and just lived life ignorant because it seems very few will acknowledge it. It makes me sad but I mask heavily. I know because the day to day is already hard here in the USA but even if it is hard we still have it VERY good and it would seem like woe is me situation.
And so the days go on in this confusing and absurd existence.
Ignorance can be bliss.
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u/Omnipootent 6h ago
Ignorance is bliss. Can't be sad about fucking something up if you dont know you fucked it up
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u/bigwidechungus 5h ago
suffering is grasping. grasping at what isn't real. while you may learn something, for it to make you sad, you must also think about what it could or should be, to imagine and hold tight to your ideas.
many suffer without knowing the cause. it is better to know and to release your grasp than to not know and be unable to release it.
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u/AtTheEndOfTheDay18 1h ago
Actually, ignorance begets more suffering. For example, everyone ignorant that alcohol screws up their mental health is drinking right now. Think of all that suffering they could have avoided. Since I'm not ignorant of that, I don't drink.
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u/Skierspy1998 20h ago
Damn, Bukowski, you were crying out your own emotional pain to us through your words.
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u/wwwrites 20h ago
Every hour of every day, I'm learning more
The more I learn, the less I know about before
The less I know, the more I want to look around
Digging deep for clues on higher ground!
UB40
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u/nhgardenart25 19h ago
This is not verbatim but Edward Abbey said something similar that one of the downfalls of an environmental education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. I often think about this as I navigate through life and feel those wounds all around me.
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u/omgletmeregister 19h ago
Basically, you decide whether to take the red pill or the blue pill.
I don’t think it’s a matter of intelligence, but rather of whether or not one chooses to see reality.
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u/Future-Parsley-7336 18h ago
No. I think sadness is caused by unbalanced brain chemistry. You can “understand” things and still be happy.
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u/Old-and-grumpy 18h ago
IMHO suffering isn't linked to intelligence. Suffering is some random mixture of misfortune and genetics.
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u/TheMadManiac 18h ago
P.S. please if you get a chanse put some flowrs on Algernons grave in the bak yard.
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u/FawnFeatherly 18h ago
It can be painful and also lonely to understand things, especially if it doesn't seem to come easily to those immediately around you. But it is also necessary for making the world, or even just your own life better. You can't often solve problems you don't understand.
Ignorance may sound like bliss, but problems can't be escaped by not understanding them. You will suffer from the same injustices, and then some, because you didn't know what you were dealing with. And that.. Is just a different kind of sadness.
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u/TJ_McWeaksauce 17h ago
I agree.
I also think great sadness can be caused by imagination. When we can imagine the world being genuinely good, but then see how it is in reality, it can be depressing as hell.
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u/StickStill9790 16h ago
If you were born smart, not just educated, you started picking up on everything around seven. You know how things are, so you appreciate the bright spots in the world.
Educated people start in a fantasy, and then have their bubble popped.
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u/sunnyyang90 16h ago
Meh… maybe. But true intelligence will also get you past that low point and back up again. There’s beauty to be found in that melancholy. That sadness is just the doorway to a different kind of peace. A child should encounter that door with sadness. An adult walks through it and knows they now have new things to understand.
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u/shadowsinthestars 16h ago
Also known as "he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow." But same principle.
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u/Correct_Building7563 16h ago
This is some schizo stuff. Intelligence doesnt cause intelligence, its absurd. Sure, overthinking something can cause sadness, but thats not the same thing.
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u/ledow 16h ago
Dumb people are everywhere and I have increasingly chosen to have less and less to do with them as I get older.
This has meant moving from extremely dense (in more than one sense of the word!) urban areas to beautiful, sparsely-populated rural locations. Haven't found a downside yet.
Even there, the last time I talked to a neighbour they were trying to convince me about chemtrails and I just made my excuses and butt out of the conversation as soon as I could.
I stopped bothering with the news many years ago. I stopped bothering with TV (in general) many years ago. I don't own a TV. I have a few new series that I watch (without ads and without interruptions), and copies of all the TV series I have ever enjoyed in my life. Same for radio. It's far better than listening/watching the tripe and letting it all wash over your brain. Couldn't give a crap about celebrities.
If I make it out of this life without braining someone because of something ridiculously stupid that they verbally-vomited, I will consider that a win.
And pretty much every problem in my life is caused by ignorance, apathy and lack of education on the part of others. Everything from the idiot who used to think it was a good idea to unnecessarily blat their motorcycle down the road at 3am, to Brexit, Trump and beyond.
I've given up so many times at the "I don't know how to respond to the slop that just sloughed out of your mouth, so I'm just going to roll my eyes, stop talking to you, make my excuses and go somewhere to have a quiet scream" point that it's basically becoming more and more rude and taking less and less time to do..
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u/dibbiluncan 14h ago
Studies seem to support this. Higher intelligence means a higher chance of depression and anxiety. 😥
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u/Narashori 14h ago
You know I think he's right, I rarely remember crying as much as I did while studying for my chemistry tests.
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u/302-SWEETMAN 14h ago
Facts. Ignore is truly BLISS.
When i was a kid the more i learned about humans & history the more i didn’t like being one of them ….
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u/Available_Sun941 14h ago
Happiness is a choice whether your awareness is current or not.
Focus on others needs and yours lessen.
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u/One-Earth9294 14h ago
Sure. Wisdom and intelligence certainly have a correlation with depression and sadness.
Sounds bad until you realize the alternative is ignorance, which causes anger due to not understanding the world and being scared of it. The smart people I know might be bummed out. Especially as of late. But the stupid people I know are just pointlessly angry at the dumbest shit. They have no idea where to allocate their indignity and they're easily led into traps.
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u/NotABonobo 14h ago
Nah, I've met plenty of miserable idiots.
Their own intelligence is what miserable intelligent people complain about. It's also what many miserable unintelligent people complain about.
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u/BakedBrie1993 13h ago
It's a lame joke I make. But there is also joy in complexity and knowledge as well.
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u/fiberguy1999 13h ago
Not really. But the more you do know, the more you can realize how much there is you don’t know
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u/Many_Easy_V2 13h ago
Yes. I often look at my young adult kids and wish for their naivety and lack of fear.
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u/petuniaflowers421 13h ago
I think it depends on how you use it. If you spend your time learning how things work, science, culture, anything, the world becomes a pretty amazing place. Gotta stay curious.
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u/Outrageous-Autumn910 12h ago
Ecclesiastes 1:18 “For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.”
The philosopher’s lament for millennia.
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u/dranoel2 12h ago
Sadness is not caused by intelligence. That's just something depressed people say to feel smart. Sadness is caused by a lack of wisdom.
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u/Mundane-Werewolf9541 12h ago
I want to do everything and experience as much as possible in life, but this also contributed to my constantly fear of missing out. Im jealous of people who are able to live a simple lifestyle doing the same repetitive thing everyday yet be happy and satisfied about it.
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u/Wolfiee021 12h ago
Yes, intelligence has completely ruined my ambition and motivation to be successful
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u/The-new-dutch-empire 12h ago edited 12h ago
I mean maybe to a point? Like gifted in iq is as mental condition not a blessing, cus you will mostly be misunderstood and one of the things humans crave is to be understood.
By the example it says up here its blatantly stupid. If you understand how shit works you also can understand why things are why they are and realize that changing it would be impossible. You would realize this isnt something sad, but just something to work around.
What would truly be sad is to submit to ignorance and bliss because you cant accept truth. To refuse to look at the absurdity of the world because you are emotionally too attached is the real tragedy. You are literally taking opportunities from yourself.
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u/GeckoGecko_ 11h ago
I'd rather suffer and not know why than suffer, know why, and yet still be powerless to lessen my own suffering
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u/TheShellAnswerMan 10h ago
It's not even a matter of opinion. I don't remember the specifics but there was a study that closely linked IQ and depression. Not trying to be any kind of way, but ik I'm smart and Ik I've always been very sad. Now I understand why, but am helpless to change it literally because I understand it too well.
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u/Fast_Wall_1049 10h ago
I suppose its mainly due to influence of emotions rather than knowing something more.
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u/Bright_Eyes83 9h ago
i do not agree that i wish that i did not understand them. i just can't bring myself to feel that way
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u/amiibohunter2015 9h ago edited 8h ago
It's layer of it, another layer is that the more intelligent you become the less you are stimulated by hobbies, topics, etc. because you already comprehended it and are looking for the next thing. Which is why geniuses like EInstein had a hard time relating to people or finding common hobbies, he would seek and yearn for new stimuli because life became boring. Often He would sit in boredom. Which in long term boredom leads to discontent, which leads to strive/yearn form new stimuli, and sadness, and a negative outlook on life then that leads to depression and anxiety.
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u/oovalap_ 7h ago
That's ass backwards...sadness is caused by poor decisions in life, a death of someone close, seeing someone suffer. The more intelligence one have, the more options, understanding and that understanding of that is bound to nothing. This causes one to be grateful for just the way it is....There's no sadness in that. Open your eyes. You've been living under a rock, ungrateful and taking things for granted if you believe sadness is caused by intelligence.
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u/TheHarlemHellfighter 5h ago
In the sense that sadness is part of your emotional intelligence faculty. It’s not to be blamed for being intelligent.
As far as wishing you didn’t understand things because of the sadness, that’s just a pessimistic view.
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u/Past_Geologist_1109 5h ago
I totally agree. Sometimes I wish I was just an ignorant idiot with a husband and a bunch of kids and a house and a white picket fence type of thing… but instead, I’ve been enlightened my entire life and now I suffer greatly.
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u/BeenThruIt 4h ago
Ecclesiasts: "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow and, as knowledge grows, grief increases." Written about 2960 years ago.
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u/Accurate-Survey6985 2h ago
This guy had quite a few pretty interesting insights.
Saw the world from the bottom up and I can relate in a lot of respects.
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u/Gussie-Ascendent 1h ago
nah plenty of folks are sad about stupid stuff
also arguably a dangerous conflation to make sadness 1 on 1 with intelligence lol.
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u/TallBlackAmerican 5m ago
It's half true imo. Bc if one is that "smart" then they would find a way to make themselves happy!
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u/n-cend 18h ago
Idiotic slop for 13 year olds. You can't choose the circumstances you started with or suffering you encounter in your life but can choose how you react and internalize them. Happiness is partly a choice. There are utterly disgusting and horrifying things in this world that knowing about hasn't improved my life but there are just some things you can't influence in any way and falling into despair over them doesn't do good for a single soul on the planet.
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u/Academic_Addition_96 10h ago
The first smart comment. Being happy is a choice you have to make for yourself. Smart or not smart adaptation is probably the smartest thing you can do, if not, you aren't smart enough to understand this. In general it's bad people who can't see good in other's.
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u/Fallout541 9h ago
Yeah, the further I zoom out the worst the world seems and the less control I have over it. I just focus on what I can impact. I coach my kids sports teams, I have my hobbies, I do fun things with the wife, and I have a weekly hangout with friends along with some other stuff. I'm quite happy even with all the normal stressors of life.
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u/HaphazardFlitBipper 20h ago
Sounds like somthing said by a sad person who wants a consolation prize and decides to claim inteligence when they are not, in fact, sufficiently intelligent to solve the problems that make them sad.
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u/ChapulineAtHome 20h ago
Perhaps it's limited intelligence. You don't understand these certain things enough.
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u/Kastila1 19h ago
I would argue its more like the Gauss bell meme.
Very Smart people "learn" to be happy, just on a different way than dumb people.
Ofc this is an oversimplification and generalization.
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u/Deriviera 17h ago
Only if you have slightly higher than average IQ. More IQ you have easier it is to abuse the system. Because essentially how you feel is just hormones and reactions in your brain. Apply correct stimulus and the problem is solved.
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u/goodfriendrobert 15h ago
no. i would never wish not to understand, no matter how upsetting understanding is.
was bukowski an alcoholic?
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u/Trying_to_survive20k 14h ago
One of the biggest thing that makes me angry and sad is looking at my co-workers, who are fucking clueless, work less, get paid less, and not worry when things are going wrong, and somehow be like "it's just a job, you can always find something else". These people grew up rich and sheltered.
There's a war at my doorstep and somehow I'm supposed to "live in the moment and not worry about it".
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u/Major_Higgins 18h ago
That's a trope created by depressed elitists so they can feel superior to other people. It’s wrong.
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u/Significant_Pay6979 21h ago
Bit of a miserable take but I get where Bukowski was coming from
Intelligence just means you notice more stuff to be unhappy about. You spot the cracks in everything, you see how people lie to themselves, you catch the little cruelties most folks sleep through. That doesn't mean ignorance is bliss exactly but there's a certain weight that comes with paying attention
What he's missing is that understanding things also opens up the good bits you'd otherwise miss. The clever jokes, the small kindnesses, how something works. It cuts both ways
I think the real trap is thinking you're the only one who sees clearly. Plenty of smart people use that as an excuse to wallow