https://x.com/repjayapal/status/2110766133389275436?s=46

Pramila Jayapal made a post about the temple attack in Chicago. Checkout the comments and a lot of desis are calling her very insult under the sun because she said “attacks on South Asians are on the rise” instead of specifically saying “Hindu Americans”. I personally don’t see the issue of her being inclusive of all of us but I would like to hear from this community on why the vitriol towards Pramila on this post is so rampant. Is it problematic for her to use South Asian instead of Hindu American or is this more tribalism at play?

EDIT: to clarify for people. The term “South Asian” and “Indian” is considered a race in the west not an ethnicity. I see a lot of people saying different things and wanted to clarify that this is my understanding of it. Feel free to disagree with this as well

This is my understanding of recent immigration to Canada as per the student visa pathway, which ultimately has contributed to xenophobia in Canada. This pathway, along with Canada absorbing H1B tech workers from the US, has resulted in rapid immigration from India since the pandemic. The thing we as ABCDs have to remember is that our parents and grandparents too were immigrants and the newer ones need empathy for the system that has taken advantage of them. With that said, I am worried about my job security as a Canadian too. I just thought I’d provide a context of my understanding, but please correct me.

Canada always offered a path to permanent residency through the student visa program. It wasn’t anything new. Many Indian students in the 2000s/2010s from well off families paid top dollar in top tier universities or public colleges to study in programs like engineering, computer science, nursing, finance, skilled trades, etc. They already came from English medium schools and their high fees subsidized education for domestic students, essentially opening more seats. So they were seen as beneficial. Moreover, many of them were well off and didn’t need to work, but they may have taken paid co-ops for the experience. But their education genuinely filled employment gaps in the economy and they were seen as positive benefits with Canadian education so hence they were offered a path to PR through post grad work permits.

However, this pathway, didn’t differentiate if the program was a degree or diploma or even if the visa holder was working in their field. They didn’t even care where the education was done. A top tier university was considered the same as a diploma mill. And this is where the exploitation happened.

Stephen Harper (Trudeau’s predecessor) actually allowed those on student visas to work off campus part time, so it wasn’t entirely Trudeau’s fault.

Starting in the 2010s diploma mills started popping up that specifically targeted students from poorer countries abroad. But these schools are like 99% international students. For instance there is one in Vancouver UCW that offers MBAs and no Canadian attends the school. Many of their graduates are working in retail or warehouses. But such schools don’t screen for English or skills. They take students from India, Nigeria, Mexico, Nepal, Philippines etc. Basically countries with emerging economies and targeting lower to middle class students (often rural) in such countries who otherwise wouldn’t have the language skills or qualifications to attend a reputable school in Canada. India having the large population it has naturally would be over represented. Some public colleges too cashed in, like Conestoga, to bring such students for generic diplomas like business management. Other public colleges formed partnerships with these private diploma mills to offer their curriculum to international students.

For many of these students the lure was being able to work part time 20 hours a week to fund their studies. At the time, a Canadian study permit applicant needed to show only $10K in the bank (even that was obtained by loan). Many of these students would exceed these hours because they had heavy loans and studying wasn’t a priority. Many professors I spoke to complained that there was limited English skills and rampant cheating and being forced by administrators to pass them.

We can’t entirely blame Trudeau for this cottage industry that emerged through a system whose loopholes were exposed. But it was emerging under their noses while they did nothing. The provinces are the ones who regulate education and Trudeau’s ministers said that they used the honour system based off the provinces regulating these schools.

However, Trudeau allowed many of these students to work 40 hours a week after the pandemic. What happened was a underclass of labour emerged in fast food or retail or warehouses filled by international students and not Canadian youth.

Moreover, anyone qualified for a PGWP, regardless if they did a PhD in mechanical engineering or a diploma in hospitality and that PGWP was eligible at Tim Hortons or a nuclear power plant. Anyone bringing it up and Trudeau would accuse them of xenophobia until he admitted it was a mistake.

So really it wasn’t as simple as bringing temporary migration in. It was more about loopholes of a good system being ignored by the government which frustrated Canadians. And now because immigration is now seen as a hot button issue politicians need to save face by closing the loopholes.

The problem is that the students who came with the intention of settling here based on a path they were promised were understandably upset. They didn’t think they did anything wrong and they are technically right. They followed the information they were given even if they were scammed by colleges and recruiters. But they aren’t the ones voting so obviously they pay the price.

This is a good podcast about Canadian attitudes towards immigration and how they’ve changed since Trudeau came.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/209-front-burner/episode/16231472-canadas-immigration-180-part-1

I’m 21F, Punjabi, born and raised in Canada, and I’m genuinely so exhausted with how my parents treat my relationship.

I love my boyfriend, but my parents seem to care more about his education, career, looks, and what other people will think than whether I’m actually happy with him.

For context, my boyfriend is also Punjabi, and we’ve known each other since high school. He’s currently working in HVAC and building a career in the trades. He’s hardworking, makes his own money, and is working toward his future. But apparently, because he didn’t go to university and isn’t pursuing some prestigious white-collar profession, he’s automatically not good enough for me.

I’m currently in university pursuing my business degree, and my parents seem to think that because I’m getting a degree, I should only marry someone who has an equally impressive educational background or career.

My dad has repeatedly called my boyfriend ugly, a loser, and uneducated. He’s even said that my boyfriend looks like the “eighth wonder of the world” because he’s supposedly so ugly and that I need to get my brain checked for finding him attractive.

Like, what kind of thing is that to say about someone your daughter loves?

What’s even more ridiculous is that my parents have actually tried to set me up with another Punjabi guy they know who’s studying engineering. I’m not attracted to this guy whatsoever. He’s genuinely not my type, and I cannot picture myself being romantically involved with him.

When I told my parents that I don’t find him attractive, their response was basically, “So what if he’s ugly? He’s doing engineering.”

I’m sorry, WHAT???

Since when did someone’s degree become more important than whether you actually love them, find them attractive, or enjoy being around them?

Am I supposed to spend the rest of my life with someone I’m not attracted to just because he has an engineering degree and my parents can brag about their son-in-law to relatives?

I understand wanting your daughter to marry someone financially stable. I want that for myself too. But there’s a difference between wanting financial security and being obsessed with status.
And the hypocrisy makes it even worse. My parents previously approved of someone I dated who worked in the same field and had a similar educational background to my current boyfriend. So clearly, having a university degree isn’t always their deciding factor.

My mom has made it clear that they won’t support the marriage, and they’ve basically told me that if I choose him, I’m on my own.

They’re planning to move to British Columbia in approximately two years, which is around the time I’ll be graduating from university. They’ve suggested that if I continue choosing my boyfriend, I can stay behind and figure things out myself.

I’m also their only child, which makes this even more upsetting. I genuinely don’t understand how they can be so willing to damage their relationship with their own daughter over someone she chooses to love.

Another thing that bothers me is the double standard in my extended family. My cousin married a Black woman, which was apparently a huge deal culturally for some relatives, but his parents still spent a significant amount of money on their wedding. When I brought this up, my parents dismissed it by saying his parents weren’t happy about the marriage.

But that’s exactly my point. You don’t have to be thrilled about every decision your adult child makes to still love and support them.

I’m just so tired of feeling like my relationship is some kind of embarrassment to my family.
I work, go to university, and am trying to build a future for myself. I’m not asking my parents to financially support my boyfriend or make my decisions for me. I just wish they could respect that I’m an adult who deserves to choose her own partner.

I don’t want to wake up 20 years from now married to someone I never truly wanted just because he looked good on paper and made my parents happy.

To other Desis who have been through this:

Did your parents care more about your partner’s education, career, income, and family reputation than how they actually treated you?

Did they eventually come around, or did you have to accept that they might never approve?

And genuinely, why are some brown parents so concerned about what relatives and the community think, even when it comes at the expense of their own children’s happiness?

I love my parents, but I’m starting to feel like their love and support are conditional on me living the life they’ve chosen for me, rather than the one I want for myself.

This sounds meaner than it is lol

My parents call me for the same few tech things over and over: reconnecting the printer, finding downloaded files, casting netflix on our android tv, what to do when Wi-Fi disappears.

I finally made a Gamma page with screenshots and giant arrows for each one.

My dad has now sent the link to two of his friends. Apparently I accidentally created neighbourhood IT support documentation.

Happy to share it with anyone who’d need it (for their parents lol).

It’s weird to explain but I feel like I’m getting the worst of both worlds, those worlds are the more progressive desi cultures and more conservative cultures. In a very conservative culture women would be married off while the family invests into the sons, this isn’t an opinion, more a statement of how very conservative desi cultures are, now outside of India people tend to take a more progressive culture and that’s usually a more western style.

I get neither, I feel pressured by my family to be at a point in my life as if I have already received this investment yet I have not.

Anyways im wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

r/Canada is having a great day today. Here’s the next one 🍿

Specifically chose r/canada to post from for the 🍿

But this was on all of the Canada based subs I follow. I don’t know how long Diab will last for. Libs are only winning because PP is so unlikable.

What are your thoughts on this? I’m typically left leaning but to me it’s a hopeful welcome change to lower immigration for now, especially among tech workers. Thoughts?

Hi, 18M here. I was born in India and spent a good chunk of my life in the MENA. I was forced to live in India for 3.5 years as an attempt to humble and teach me about life, since my parents believed that Indian people are genuine people with intelligence and other stuff kids at my area supposedly lacked.

For all my life, I have never really thought about what it meant to have a cultural or a religious identity. It was something that was in the background, it was there, it was frequent but it didn't bother me.

My parents and family members are very connected with kerala culture and love the language, the food , the culture, etc etc. I like the food and ... That's it. I am also an atheist because I simply don't see the point in praying even though my entire family is religious as hell.

I've famously struggled with time management and I Have To mark a physical calender to remember which dates and events to follow like Diwali, Holi, Christmas and etc. Else I'll simply gloss over them and by the time I realized I missed everything, is a month after it ended.

Now this doesn't bother me but it really is a bother for my parents and relatives. They would moan and lament endlessly about how every other boy is smarter or cooler than I am and how I'm not a real man if I don't do x or y. I refuse to wear the mundu or shotu simply because it makes me uncomfortable or risjy to move

Everyday they would pester me when I was in school whether I made an Indian friend or a fellow kid in my community. Most of my friends were either indians from far off places like the north or non nationals like pakistanis, afghanis, etc. And when I did make an Indian friend they would sneer how we spoke to each other in English. Looking back, their actions were quite odd.

When they send me to India during 2022-2024 so that I would connect with my homeland, I somehow managed to be even more distant since the people in my local area were so (pardon my language) ghetto. They felt like caricatures that would screech and bellow shit as though they had nothing in their heads. I really really tried to be friendly with them since my town was the type where people would bash you if you tried to keep to yourself. The whole place relied on connections and I simply couldn't master it. I faced a lot of bullying that year and it made me a very confrontational person and more prone to snapping or resorting to violence. I also forgot my native language the moment I came back home so I frankly learned absolutely nothing while I was there.

My country is an inhospitable shit hole, Delhi looked like a fallout of some event, our governments are TRASH. We had nothing to claim for glory besides ancient relics from years bygone and we still blame it on the Brits. Our culture is so oppressive that my country is now a breeding ground for incels and perverts. I never thought I would encounter anyone like that but here I am.

Now I know India is amazing and there are many things about it that I like, though I would never raise my kids in that environment nor would I bother going there during holidays. I would also like to say that I have never experienced discrimination from non indians and I am not whitewashed as I could care less about your race, sex or gender.

Please read the last couple of sentences “we expect such behavior from Pak and Muslim terrorists, not white Christian Americans”

Please tell me I’m not the only one who thinks this is highly offensive? And also isolating us from other communities and causing more division how does that create any sort of normality in this horrific event which occurred in Illinois

This really fucks me up but I think most desis that are born and raised abroad grow taller than their counterparts back home. I'm actually curious, how many of you get comments from ppl about your height when you visit South Asia? I certainly always do in Pakistan. I'm just about 6'0 which is getting rare there. That country is getting shorter every year.

Is the air pollution seriously infecting their DNA and preventing them from reaching their full physical and brain potential? I hate this so much. I lived there until I was 7 yo so my DNA could've rotted a bit too while I was there.

UPDATE - i did some basic data analysis based on the data provided by the NCD-RisC. This is how the avg 19 year old's height changed over the years. you can see pakistan has regressed, especially pakistani girls, and then with india, it's hard to generalize. india is too big and you'd have to do a regional breakdown. but in any case, pakistan is fucked. i'm thinking the main cause is air pollution. you can see china's height steadily improving and they've also steadily improved their air quality but i guess correlation is not causation.

Work in marketing, and sick of all those "you're doing nothing important" jokes, just because I'm not in a traditional field like medicine or law. I've worked hard to be where I'm at, and those jokes seem to be in bad taste. Also everyone just assumes that your parents must be disappointed like??? Stop projecting?!

Sorry for the rant but it's pissing me off (yes I'm that petty)

Let's remember in the midst of all the political noise that we have people in our community devoting their lives to making the world better.

I specify American-born because in the USA there's a huge emphasis on the "college life" and so FOMO probably exists way more for ABDs there than in Canada. I mean in Canada we have certain schools that provide an American-style college life...but still we also have tons of commuter schools where people just go to class, maybe attend a few clubs, then go back home and live with their parents.

If I recall correctly I think about 40% or so of people in my high school graduating class chose commuter schools and live with their parents. And unfortunately a lot of them were ABD kids and it wasn't by choice. It's just that they were expected to by their parents, or their parents threatened to not pay tuition if they moved out. Honestly for most of the brown kids who did move out it was for prestigious programs like Waterloo STEM or Queen's/Western business. So yeah.

But that's beside the point. I'm just mainly curious if there's any American-born Desi kids who lived with their parents all 4 years during college, and as a result probably didn't get the "college experience". What is it like? Do you regret it?

I made a post about the failed temple attack on Instagram, and immediately had other South Asians I went to school with(I grew up in an enclave) message me “Oh what about Muslims/Christians in India”, etc.

First of all, we live in America. Aren’t we American. Why are you holding me liable for whats happening in the mainland lol.

Second of all, yeah those aren’t great either. Why must we be subjected to purity tests? Can’t we just call out an attack on Desis(cuz if you think these people will spare non-Hindu Desis, you are sorely mistaken), and just unite? Why does calling out this temple attack mean I co-sign everything that goes on across the world?

Idk, it was very frustrating.

But, every time I mention the bad, I will mention the good too. I had my Eelam Christian friend and my Pakistani friend repost it and support us too. And many more who liked and shared.

But we really need to be better with South Asian unity as a community, whether you’re Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Jain, Atheist, Rastafarian, Scientologist, Satanist, or you pray to Cthulhu, idgaf. We are Desis, let’s just stand together and help protect each other lmao. I will never hold a South Asian American liable for what goes on in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc. All those country’s could be better in treating their minorities better, yeah, not sure why that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t band together in America or abroad in general lmao.

A pretty ABCDesi thing, two Desis talking about American politics.

I am a CBCD Malayalee with mixed race kids. My oldest is two and so far we've only let her watch the potty training related episodes of Daniel Tiger and Ms. Rachel. As potty training is going reasonably well now, I'd like to transition to having her watch primarily/only Malayalam content. Before she was born, I intended to do one-parent-one-language but it is so hard! I'm hoping that this will augment her understanding of Malayalam. Unfortunately, all of the Malayalam toddler content I've found so far is high transition rate/AI slop type content. Do you have any recommendations for quality children's shows in Malayalam? I would like to prioritize a low number of scene transitions, no AI, and reasonable content (not scary or normalizing bad behaviour).

Also, we have a couple of Keralite books that we like but are always game for more recommendations there too!

Calling all fellow Gujju ABCDs: you know how it is in October when we have garba in local high school or college gyms on Friday and Saturday nights.

For those of you who have visited Gujarat as adults during Navratri, what are the key differences and key similarities you’ve seen between garba in US and garba in Gujarat? The scale is obviously much larger in Gujarat. Other than scale, what have you noticed in Gujarat that you have not seen in US? What similarities have you noticed? For example, I’m told that it’s a meat market for the teens and young people. Any truth to that?