r/worldnews • • 18h ago

Russia/Ukraine ‘We Pay for It’: Germany Demands Starlink Restrictions in Ukraine Be Lifted

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/87287
30.7k Upvotes

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u/AngelOfLight2 18h ago edited 16h ago

This would be an incredible opportunity for Germany or the entire EU to blacklist Musk and his companies for consumer fraud, thereby removing Tesla from the local landscape and boosting their own EVs. Trump may retaliate, but at this point, does Europe even care? Want back in? Reactivate what was already paid for along with extra days to make up for those lost, and a penalty for intentionally witholding services.

The only way American billionaires will still toeing Trump's line is if hurts their chequebook more than doing the right thing.

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u/WittyInterview17 17h ago

I agree 100% they should do this. It's too good an opportunity to pass up.

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u/RobotSpaceBear 17h ago

I think it's more important that Ukraine receives life-saving and war-winning hardware, weapons and intelligence, even if we have to keep sucking their corrupted American dicks.

But the minute the armistice is signed is the minute we need to kick their fucking asses our of our stores, schools, government and critical infrastructure. Tesla, Starlink, Microsoft Office, military programs, iPhones and Macs. They've proven to be unreliable allies and nothing can assure us another Republican official can not pull the same shit again in the future.

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u/CakeTester 16h ago

You missed out Microsoft Windows. Kicking Office out doesn't do diddly.

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u/Shark7996 15h ago edited 15h ago

Azure as well.

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u/Frido1976 16h ago

MSoffice is too ingrained in many countries' government and public offices use. Very hard to just purge it but I agree, it would show a willingness to them that it's not OK to behave like they do.

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u/Turbulent_Lunch4548 15h ago

I'm sure it is difficult, but have you seen what happened to those judges at the ICC?

Normal citizens working for the ICC living in the Netherlands suddenly being treated by the financial system as if they were international pariah drug lords or some shit. All because of the americans weaponizing Windows and the like. We do not have the luxury of choice here.

It is not a question of wether it is worth the trouble, it is a question of how much time do we have, how fast can we do it, and how disruptive and expensive it is going to be to do it obviously.

This is about survivability, not comfortability.

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u/Arkayjiya 15h ago

And yet France has started the transition. It's not impossible, it's not even that hard at all, it just takes someone to make the decision.

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u/Severe-Hand-8580 13h ago

just takes someone to make the decision.

We got rid of Microsoft on a city level in Vienna twice. We're currently working on the third time. Let's see if it survives the next elections...

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u/CakeTester 16h ago

Libre Office has much of the same functionality and certainly enough to cover most use cases. Throw the licence money into retraining for a couple of years and you're golden. And after that, throw money at the Libre Office team.

Ditto Linux. Only you throw the money at Linux.

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u/Dwokimmortalus 15h ago

Libre Office is ass for any realistic enterprise work. And I say that as someone who dropped Windows completely years ago. It's incredibly unreliable, and it's interoperability with Microsoft formats is terrible.

Yes, I understand the latter is because Microsoft actively sabotages it.

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u/QuadzillaStrider 15h ago

This cannot be stated enough. LibreOffice is nowhere near in the position to replace MS Office in the enterprise sector.

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u/bianary 13h ago

I'm always baffled by its lack of what seems like basic functionality.

I don't use a lot of the newer, weird stuff that Office has added and I still can't get LibreOffice to do what I'm used to from 10 years ago in Office.

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u/nutmegtester 14h ago

I bet it would be at best one percent of the cost of ms licenses to just fund a small group of core devs to work on those specific problems and then adopt it in a couple years compared to continuing to pay licensing fees in perpetuity. Because although there are problems it is not such a stark no-go as the parent comment's hyperbole would make it seem. It's insane how short-sighted these large organizations with massive budgets are for very basic things.

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u/TenbluntTony 16h ago

Now I don’t know enough about the different Linux distros but a main consideration we would have is regarding auditing and compliance and whether we’d still have that capability moving away from office

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u/CakeTester 15h ago

That would be more complicated, admittedly, but the linux core remains basically the same. The different distros have different user interfaces; drivers; software package; and look. So you can have a user-friendly distro that is loaded for every conceivable eventuality or a stripped-down racing linux that does one thing with no effort wasted. Libre Office would be the same across all.

Depends what you're auditing and complying with, I suppose.

Look at the alternative though. Software you have to pay for that sends unstoppable telemetry back to a possibly hostile foreign country. If I were in charge we would all have been Linux dweebs by 2010.

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u/jay-dot-dot 16h ago

This has been tried by governments around Europe for at least 15 years now and it eventually crashes and burns.

The biggest problem will continue to be interoperability - if MSFT introduces a new feature in Excel and 9/10 companies require it to work with them somehow, you just capitulate or die, really.

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u/Barobor 15h ago

LibreOffice is nowhere close to MS Office.

The biggest advantage MS Office has isn't that it has the best spreadsheets or the best text editor. It is that those products are fully integrated with Teams, SharePoint, Outlook, Power BI, and every other Microsoft product a business uses. They offer a full ecosystem that is easy to use.

LibreOffice can't and won't ever offer this level of integration.

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u/PotentialAccident339 13h ago

are fully integrated with Teams, SharePoint, Outlook, Power BI, and every other Microsoft product a business uses

as a daily user of teams, sharepoint, outlook... reluctantly power BI occasionally... you're overselling the usefulness of this "full ecosystem"

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u/Koshindan 11h ago

The "full ecosystem" actively makes their products worse to use. At this point, it mostly just exists to punish anyone stepping away from using it.

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u/CakeTester 15h ago edited 15h ago

It could if a few governments were serious about it and most of the core basics are already out there.

Moreover, it would end up as a better, more stable product. Because there's no need to add bits or change things around just to justify the cost of the latest version; plus there's be no need for any of the dickery MS gets up to to keep competitors away.

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u/MercantileReptile 16h ago

[...] even if we have to keep sucking their corrupted American dicks.

This argument keeps being made, which I would in theory agree with - if it worked. We already bent over and flattered and caved. And Ukraine is not getting deliveries already paid for. And getting messed with, like this Starlink mess.

We already tried sucking up. Does not work. Clearly, evidently. Repeatedly.

Why would sucking up more change the behaviour of the Trump regime?

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u/targetsinmegadeaths 17h ago

It would be a smart move because most Americans disdain nazi musk and wouldn't feel the least bit bothered.

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u/soulstormfire 16h ago

Americans don't matter because you don't matter for your government.

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u/fake_user_34 15h ago

Someone gets it. Americans do not have a voice at all in this matter. It is between the king of America and the world. The American plebs are nothing but fodder.

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u/Khal_Doggo 14h ago

"It's already too late" said the guy who was ankle deep in water. "Trying to stop the leaking pipe is pointless, I have no control" he said, too scared to pick up a wrench. "Any day now I'll drown anyway, so who cares"

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u/Specific-Parsnip9001 13h ago

And they say shit like, "voting doesn't matter, the only thing that's going to fix it is a revolution!". It's like, dude, if you can't even be bothered to pick up a pen to vote then why the fuck would you be bothered to pick up a gun and shoot? These dweebs always think that someone else is going to swoop in and save them while they sit around doing fuck all except bitching and complaining.

If a revolution ever happens nobody will be counting on these chucklefucks for shit and they'll likely be the first to try and run to Canada/Mexico.

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u/dapoktan 13h ago

exactly. if they werent afraid of the voting public, billionaire fuckwads like the elon, the ellisons, etc wouldnt be spending hundreds of millions against the progressive democrats.

see who they're spending against. take note. vote.

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u/Hamsquad14 12h ago

In fairness I would imagine the people saying that all vote

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u/Sr_DingDong 3h ago

It's all about small steps.

The far right didn't just sweep in on Trump in one election; they spent 40+ years chipping away at the institutions.

But for some reason the left has been gaslit/brainwashed into thinking if you can't vote generational change in one election it's a waste of time so don't bother... and guess who that helps?

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u/Anonymous_Jr 11h ago

My boss at work said something similar about Flock in our area.

Don't be compliant and complacent.

Be a problem.

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u/joshTheGoods 12h ago

We're literally in an election right now and Trump pulling this political theater fucking with Ukraine supposedly over diesel prices is the direct result of the fact that an election is on and Trump is seeing polling that says the people do, in fact, have a voice in this democracy.

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u/sajmonides 16h ago

If most Americans disdained Musk, Trump would not have been elected president.

Most Americans don't give a shit about Musk or other billionaires, the same way they didn't give a shit to show up and vote.

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u/CilleTheExterminator 16h ago

The guy literally heiled TWICE on the biggest politicial stage in the world and the crowd went wild and he got to be a trillionaire for a quick minute because of it.. America is lost....

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u/salemblack 14h ago

Trump talked about how much he doesn't care if American cities get nuked and the audience cheered. He told them he could say the stupidest things and they would cheer. And they did, again.

America's been lost for a long time and it's not going to find it's way back. There is no fight in the people. Maybe another version will rise from whatever left in the crumbling ruins, but I don't think a lot of us will be here to see that.

I really don't want to hear about how most people didn't vote for him and most people don't care. That's exactly the goddamn problem. Not an excuse.

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u/AaronRodgersMustache 15h ago

You forget that most of America didn't even see that shit. The media on tv is completely segmented. If they watch fox, they probably didn't even show it. We can't act like everyone sees everything we see on reddit. Especially the voting segments that actually vote.

And then online, most people are in their own algo and don't see that either. The internet has effectively divided us and trapped everyone in their own reality.

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u/CilleTheExterminator 15h ago

I know they control what they see. BUT I assume many MAGATS watched the inauguration and saw it happen live in front of their own eyes... The audience at the event went fucking wild when he did it, so again I assume most MAGATS watching at home also went wild and saw that they could finally start living the nazi life they always wanted.

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u/Woodcrate69420 16h ago

Then why are these fuckers the ones to represent you guys internationally?

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u/Lavatis 14h ago

you're online too much. most americans don't give two shits about politics in the first place.

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u/bonyponyride 17h ago

The more important move to preserve democracy in Europe would be to ban twitter.

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u/TAMCL 17h ago

Toeing*

You put your toes on the line drawn

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u/AngelOfLight2 16h ago

Thanks, I always imagined someone towing a rope. It's always a pleasure to learn something new. I've corrected it in my post

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u/JollyHockeysticks 16h ago

except the starshield system being used by Ukraine is operated by the US government and we've learnt that the decision came from someone in the White House. As much as I dislike Musk, this wasn't on him. Either way, it's in all of our best interests for Ukraine to retain this service until the war ends, regardless of your thoughts on the US/Musk because it's absolutely vital to Ukraine. Any retaliation over this should come at a point where retaining this service no longer matters because otherwise trump would probably go "you're being so mean! all service cancelled" which is the last thing needed.

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u/addandsubtract 16h ago

This would be an incredible opportunity for Germany or the entire EU to blacklist Musk and his companies for consumer fraud, thereby removing Tesla from the local landscape and boosting their own EVs.

They let Elon build a big ass factory near Berlin. Ain't no way they're kicking him out.

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u/zazzazin 16h ago

While i agree with the sentiment. Ukraine is making great use of the starlink advantage and until they have similar tech in place it makes more sense to take the insult of having to deal with Musk while having biggest positive impact on the war, rather than antagonisong him.

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u/KeenanKolarik 17h ago

Blacklisting Musk would all but guarantee Ukraine gets cut off from Starlink

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u/TheAsianTroll 16h ago

The worst Trump will do is throw a fit, call the EU some level of insults from his 2-page dictionary, and maybe impose tariffs.

The benefit of billionaires realizing Trump is gonna lose them money is too valuable.

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u/Signal-Force6004 16h ago

Germany for example is a heavy export nation with most of their exports going to America. They absolutely do care. It’s not a fucking Kindergarten although Trump may make you believe it is

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u/BrunoBraunbart 15h ago

This is probably only a misphrasing on your part but I still want to point out: way less than half of German exports go to America. It's a bit less than 10%.

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u/Dodislav 16h ago

It's a two way street. America is not importing out of kindness.

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u/Tandien 15h ago

It is typically easier to find new suppliers vs new customers.

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u/Notcosteffective 13h ago

The problem with “voting with your dollar” is that the rich will just outlast you because they have more dollars. Also when you turn buying into political action it leads you to blame ur neighbors for the problem when their purchases differ from yours. We need a general strike and full revolution now.

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u/Ooops2278 14h ago

thereby removing Tesla from the local landscape and boosting their own EVs

You mean the European EVs that are already totally dominating the market, with Tesla (and chinese competitors) only existing in the media brain rot we are constantly fed (but the latter are incredible in record growth from nothing to nearly nothing and always good for headlines...)?

The ten most sold EVs in Germany are produced by: Skoda, BMW, VW, VW, Mercedes, Skoda, Audi, Mercedes, Audi and Citroën

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u/Puzzleheaded_irl 18h ago

Germany has demanded that restrictions on Starlink satellite communications in Ukraine be lifted, arguing that equipment financed by Berlin must remain operational.

Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul said Germany was seeking answers from the US about the disruptions, though it did not yet have a complete picture of their cause, German broadcaster ntv reported.

“These restrictions must be lifted,” Wadephul said, arguing that Germany finances some of the Starlink equipment used in Ukraine.

“And so, of course, we insist that it works if we are paying for it. Ukraine must continue to receive full support,” he said.

Wadephul’s remarks added diplomatic pressure over disruptions to a service Ukrainian forces use for communications, drone operations, and frontline logistics. But Wadephul stopped short of identifying who was responsible.

Germany had questions for the US “that we will clarify,” he said.

Sources in Ukraine’s defense ministry told Kyiv Post on Thursday morning, Oct. 15, that Starshield connectivity while in motion had been restored and remained operational, according to reports from military units. However, the sources did not specify the speeds at which the service was functioning or whether any speed restrictions remained.

The ministry was continuing communications to establish the reasons and circumstances behind the previous day’s restrictions, the sources said.

That update confirmed the resumption of service but did not establish what caused the disruption or how it was resolved.

On Wednesday, ministry sources told Kyiv Post that SpaceX had introduced speed restrictions overnight without advance warning to Ukraine’s defense forces.

They described a limit of 160 kilometers per hour, or about 100 mph, although units reported losing connectivity at speeds ranging from approximately 72 to 161 km/h (45 to 100 mph).

The restrictions hampered drone missions, including interceptor and medium-range strike operations, and reduced capabilities for logistics, reconnaissance, and communications relay.

Ukraine is seeking to raise the operating speed limit to 450 km/h (280 mph) to allow interceptor drones to pursue faster Russian aerial threats, including jet-powered drones.

Dan Rice, president of American University Kyiv and a former special adviser to Ukraine’s military commander-in-chief, warned that such restrictions could have deadly consequences.

Speaking to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Rice described the scale of the threat facing Ukrainian air defenses.

“When you have 500 inbound Shaheeds, jet-powered Shaheeds, and I was hit within 400 meters [1,312 feet] twice this week,” he said, “you need to have interceptors going out to protect Ukrainian civilians.”

Rice warned that interference with high-speed interceptor operations could allow Russian drones to reach civilian targets, including schools, hospitals, and residential buildings.

Retired Rear Adm. Mark Montgomery, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, said the restrictions also impaired Ukrainian drone missions against Russian military logistics and command facilities approximately 150-250 kilometers (93 to 155 miles) behind Russian lines.

The consequences extend beyond battlefield efficiency.

In an interview with Piers Morgan on Wednesday, President Volodymyr Zelensky said the restrictions had already cost Ukrainian lives.

“People are dying because of his decision,” Zelensky said.

“I’m sure that they knew what they did. Absolutely,” he added.

However, the Ukrainian leader stopped short of identifying who had ordered the restrictions.

“I don’t know, him or somebody pushed him to… I don’t know really,” Zelensky said when asked whether he was angry with Elon Musk.

“We are professionals. If you are losing the speed of Starlink, we understand what’s going on. So they switched off. That’s their decision,” he added.

The controversy has also clarified who ultimately controls the military satellite system.

Starshield is a government-focused version of SpaceX’s Starlink network, developed for military and national security operations. Unlike commercial Starlink, the Starshield services at issue operate under US government control.

Elon Musk, SpaceX’s chief executive, confirmed Wednesday that restrictions on the system were a government decision.

“Starshield systems are owned and controlled by the US government. Any limits on speed or usage are decided by the US military and ultimately POTUS,” Musk wrote on X.

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u/bastiVS 14h ago

Elon Musk, SpaceX’s chief executive, confirmed Wednesday that restrictions on the system were a government decision.

Oh look, at the very end of the article it clears up its own misinfo that it spreads by confusing StarShield with StarLink.

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u/Iwantmoretime 13h ago

How long will US and SpaceX officials dick around pointing the finger at eachother though? "We can't fix it because it's not us!" And neither of them will be able to figure it out until it's convenient or too painful for them.

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u/LongJohnSelenium 13h ago

Its literally illegal for musk to fix. He cant go around the federal governments back and provide weapons to some other country when the military/state department said not to.

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u/Iwantmoretime 12h ago edited 5h ago

Initial reports had the White House denying the Gov was responsible: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/white-house-denies-involvement-starlink-005600992.html

Looking up the news from probably more reputable sources this morning, it looks like blame is being pointed to lower level people within the DoD.

So you're right, this would be on the U.S. Gov. Based on timing of recent comments from the Trump Admin and Musk and the fact that it seems to have taken two days to identify who made the decision and who's responsible for what, I'm standing by my opinion that they are all assholes.

Edit: I've now seen several updates referencing Musk suggesting to Trump they choke starlink and Trump agreeing with it. The admin seems to be saying Trump never actually gave an order as a way to sow confusion and provide denial as if some rando at the pentagon did this on their own. Overall it sounds like Musk's idea and Trump happy to go with it.

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u/ItsAllOnUHF 18h ago

If Musk continues to dick around with Starlink, European countries should pull their spectrum licenses.

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u/Due-Communication724 18h ago

Even better, create our own system

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u/RangeCreed 17h ago

They are it's called IRIS²

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u/I_Never_Use_Slash_S 17h ago

How’s it coming along? About ready to be deployed or?

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u/Wyciorek 17h ago

Bunch of contracts signed, but I don't think anything is yet in orbit. Interesting that a month ago Korea signed an agreement about their future participation in Iris2. I guess they also got spooked by increasingly erratic US govt and SpaceX antics

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u/Plus-Visit-764 17h ago

Is there a reason Europe is lagging behind so bad?

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u/writewithparagraphs4 17h ago

they have no lift capacity compared to spacex.

Ariane is a total disaster.

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u/Nozinger 17h ago

they have plenty of lift capacity. These satellites ain't big.
The main difference it that it actually is an official big project which comes wth a huge beurocratic overhead compared to the 'lol lets fuck some shit up' aproach that starlink was able to use.

On the other hand this also means it is way better plnned than starlink. For example with actually stable, higher orbits so you also need less satellites and crucially don't need to replace them all the time.

But yeah it is mostly just planning stuff that drags on for a long time which is normal with that many parties involved. The final specification was just done earlier this year.

So with satellite assembly starting probably next year and all of that having an operational system by 2029 is actually not that bad.

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u/frilly_socks 16h ago

Capacity can mean more than weight. It's the amount or rather availability of launches. It's why they're developing a reusable Ariane set to debut in 2030.

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u/ComplicatedAirFlow 12h ago

On the other hand this also means it is way better plnned than starlink. For example with actually stable, higher orbits so you also need less satellites and crucially don't need to replace them all the time.

That's an intentional design choice. Higher satellites mean higher ping.

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u/slonk_ma_dink 11h ago

Yeah, that's the whole point of low orbit. Don't people remember how god-awful the original satellite internet connections were? It was less a technical limitation (although that didn't help) and more of one of physics. As the technology improved on the network side, pings still sucked, because it takes a while to get something to a point in stable orbit and back twice (user to satellite, satellite to ground connection, and then backwards as the packets return from the wider internet).

Starlinks big "revolution" was to just have satellites closer to earth, even if they fall out of orbit more often. Lower distance = lower ping.

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u/peon2 16h ago

How is that pronounced? Iris squared, Iris two, Irissssss?

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u/Loki-L 17h ago

There are plans, but the big issue is that the leaders of European rocketry refused to do the reusable rocket thing, that Elon's SpaceX pioneered and that now everyone else tries to copy.

Ariane 6 is a nice rocket but not reusable and thus not as cheap or frequent.

It would be hard to build a big satellite network with the sort of rockets we have.

I blame the French.

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u/Leon_84 17h ago

No matter what, always blame the French 😊

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u/skalouKerbal 17h ago

Yes but we know it's Germany fault (when not the English)

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u/missbohica 17h ago

You mean Spain, right? Somehow they are always to blame. Now, if you'll excuse me, the paella is ready.

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u/ModernSimian 17h ago

Can I blame the Italians next?

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u/skalouKerbal 17h ago

Whose is on the booster? 🤌

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u/ants_are_everywhere 17h ago

France is the king of industrial espionage. They probably figured they'd let the Americans foot the bill for the design work and then just help themselves to the result.

https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business

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u/Crypt33x 16h ago

...Meanwhile the US plundered our whole patent archive and won the race to the moon with it against the Soviet Union, which plundered our patent archive as well and won the space race. Just normal post ww2 things.

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u/PandaEatPanda 17h ago

The head of Ariane spoke out against reusable rockets as that would cost jobs.

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u/891960 17h ago

That wasnt smart

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u/PandaEatPanda 16h ago

But jobs!!!! 😉

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u/ElegantBiscuit 15h ago

Europe in general is being held hostage by maintaining jobs and always has been. Another example is German unions pushing the VW CEO herbert diess out in 2022 for trying to cut 100k job cuts and change the company to compete with Chinese EVs, and now 4 years later VW is firing 100k workers and failing to compete with Chinese EVs.

Also about 33% of the EU budget goes to agricultural subsidies, from a high of 75% in the 80s and earlier.

And the generous worker benefits are why people love living in europe, but why also why european companies (especially tech) have a tendency to get bought out and/or outcompeted by american and Chinese companies. Not that removing worker rights is the solution to competition, but some sort of compromise somewhere is necessary to maintain things like digital sovereignty, where now europe is having to scramble to leave US tech platforms.

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u/Ooops2278 14h ago

Is that the reason US companies are using Ariane6 to get their satellites to space (next batch of –iirc– 36 from Amazon are scheduled for end of November)?

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u/RT-LAMP 12h ago

The reason they're doing it just because Jeff doesn't want to fund Musk. Amazon shareholders literally sued him (and won) to force him to buy cheaper SpaceX launches.

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u/Fuzzy-Mud-197 11h ago

Amazon was literally sued by their own shareholders for not using the cheaper and more proven option which was the spacex falcon 9

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u/mfitzp 16h ago

Eutelsat (Oneweb) already exists.

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u/Waste-Gene-7793 17h ago

It’s not Musk, reporting is the order came direct from the whitehouse. Star shield is under jurisdiction of the pentagon

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u/ItsAllOnUHF 17h ago

Musk is also posting anti-Ukraine stuff. He's just as big a piece of shit as Trump, and probably suggested it to Trump.

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u/Argues_with_ignorant 17h ago

While I hate musk, blame him for what he's actually done. This one is trump's order, clear as day.

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u/AnimalShithouse 16h ago

He helped to get trump elected. We can blame him for everything that came from that, including this.

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u/daschan 15h ago

Wasn't it last week when Hegseth announced that Elon Musk was to join a Department of War task force to direct the future of war?

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u/AllergictoAIslop 17h ago

You make a really good point. People are going to use the spectrum. They are obliged to provide a service. If mobile phone always started pulling stuff. Intellectually how would we feel?.

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u/IndividualSkill3432 17h ago

If Musk continues to dick around with Starlink, European countries should pull their spectrum licenses.

Europe has had over a decade now to recreate Falcon 9 and 5-8 years to work on a real Starlink alternative. On AI, reusable rockets and many other fields, they are falling behind both the US and China. Writing big demands on Reddit may be popular but you have to either have the state pay for, or create conditions for the private sector to develop in those fields.

Europe risks becoming the Qing of the 21st century.

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u/SecurelyObscure 16h ago

There's a real chance that the esa won't have landed its first booster by the time SpaceX retires the falcon 9 for being too outdated.

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u/RobustFoam 17h ago

The USA can no longer be trusted for anything. The rest of the world must build supply chains that bypass them completely. 

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u/DrAstralis 16h ago

"buy military gear from us exclusively, but also we're going to put kill switches into everything and fuck with it during active military operations" - united states of pedophillia.

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u/Competitive_Ebb6361 7h ago

I wonder what's the status on those smarty pants fellows from a few months ago saying F-35s operated by EU don't have a kill switch. Are they still so sure about it?

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u/Rhythm_Killer 16h ago

Yeah but let’s not forget while we are at it that dividing the US and EU was all part of someone’s plan. The disinformation networks push at both sides, amplifying calls for Europe to turn its back on the US. 

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u/ansibleloop 15h ago

Failing to support Ukraine is turning it's back on Europe

The US government are Russian puppets

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u/Defiant-Plane4557 13h ago

Doesn't change the fact that US is completely untrustworthy at best. Opinions and vibes are irrelevant when considering security.

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u/PremiumTempus 15h ago

It’s not a good relationship when one has 100% control over the other. The fact is the US has meddled in Europe’s institutional and economic development since 1945 and this gave it way too much power.

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u/MalleDigga 14h ago

Exactly. As much one is to dislike dumb americianism (which doesnt mean all are obviously not) who is to profit from this? as a german kid born in 92 i do want my normal usa back that i consider to be the "healthy" and hero generation who helps defeat the right wing ultra world d1ckheads. Thats what i want. Fucking get back on track and make fighting fascism and nazis normal again maybe? You need education.. just like we needed help back then. If one country can do a 180°.. its the united states of America!

gta 6 is not even close to the parody it needs to be for a fair comparison atm

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u/VoopityScoop 15h ago

The Russians are about to win the Cold War, that much is clear

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u/Next-Pass-802 15h ago

Honestly why this was not the first thing every country did the second Trump pulled out his dumb ass list of tariffs is beyond me.

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u/Iwantmoretime 13h ago

Anyone paying an ounce of attention in the summer of 2024 as Eileen Cannon sank the Trump cases and polls showed a close race should have been preparing for this.

Hell, Anyone in the summer of 2021 when it was clear US Attorney General Merick Garland was slow rolling the Trump investigations should have identified MAGA 2.0 as a significant global economic and security risk. They published all their plans in a book called Project 2025.

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u/shadowK1LOS 12h ago

The world knows this, it's 67% of Americans still working on figuring it out.

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u/Icommentor 14h ago

Is it me or Trump is trying to help Russia as much as possible before the midterms?

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u/0bsidian 13h ago

Russia is helping Trump with the midterms. Trump is just being a good friend in return. 

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u/Citizen-Kang 12h ago

One filthy hand washes the other.

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u/Herebec 14h ago

Is that the surprise?

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u/Tyrilean 13h ago

He’s been a Russian plant from the beginning. Putin has some serious dirt on him.

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u/Entropic_Echo_Music 12h ago

There is more than enough dirt already out there in the open. I can't imagine what kind of dirt Putin could have that would mean anything at all at this point.

The guy is just an absolute idiot, I don't think it is deeper than that.

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u/nsfwthrowaway5969 12h ago

I thought this at first, but at this point I honestly don't think he does. Trump just likes Putin too much, he wishes he was just like him.

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u/Livid_Importance_442 10h ago

Trump likely owes lots of money to the Russian oligarchs as well because they were about the only ones willing to loan him money (or buy his properties at highly inflated prices) when he was quickly going bankrupt in the 1990s.

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u/Least-Design-6873 13h ago

I mean yes, but he’s also been doing it since he got elected, not just now. This isn’t the first time Elon has turned off the intel.

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u/Money-Pilot6337 11h ago

Its obvious to me he is willing to cut deals with russia because of the oil crisis he caused. He asked Ukraine to stop bombing Russian refineries and they didn’t, so this is the petty outcome. He’s betraying an ally to save himself from the oil problem.

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u/Rocketeer006 12h ago

He absolutely is because Putin ordered him to as he knows Trump's ability to help Russia after the midterms will be limited.

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u/Ascomae 17h ago

I've heard rumours that only the starshield devices, which are under control of the US, were limited. While all other starlink worked normally.

So everything points directly to Trump.

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u/Kmoneee 16h ago

Yes, correct. Nobody actually reads the article. And they buried that part at the end to top it off.

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u/scumbamole 13h ago

When clicking on the link for this particular site, you are greeted with "Accept all cookies" or "Vendor list". If you follow the, "I don't want you and 600 other companies to spy on me" route, you have to individually unselect every fucking vendor from their list.

This is why people don't read the article.

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u/Ascomae 16h ago

You got me. I also didn't read the article...

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u/Positronic_Matrix 16h ago

Reddit, where people won’t read a paragraph of the story but will read paragraphs of wrong information written by people who also didn’t read a paragraph of the story.

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u/AverageTundra 14h ago

Not gonna lie, I do this all the time and then catch myself thinking why the fuck am I reading all these comments by random unvetted people/bots instead of the actual source. Reddit doesn't make it better when most of the stuff on the front page doesn't have any sources (or its behind a pay wall).

I guess it's just easier to scroll than click (as dumb as it sounds) and short snippets of comments are easier to read even if you spend more time in total reading comments than the article.

And I have no doubt that even if I can think critically, my opinion is swayed when I read countless of comments or posts on the front page, even if I'm aware of that most is bs.

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u/thecraftybee1981 16h ago

So America does have a kill switch on their defence technologies and actively uses it whilst its customer is fighting for their lives.

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u/critically_damped 14h ago

And the fact that they will use it on Russia's behalf. It's already bad enough if the kill switch was exclusively reserved to protect the United States from being attacked with those weapons, but it's being explicitly disabled on behalf of fucking Putin.

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u/Iwantmoretime 13h ago

The whole Russian Diesel deal is just the fucking worst and dumbest.

Our tax dollars being redirected to prop up rich Russians for no real economic benefit at the added cost of Ukrainian lives.

It's one of the very few new lows I've been actually disgusted by lately.

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u/Kooky_Win4720 14h ago

"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

-Dwight D Eisenhower

Safe to say some didn't listen.

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u/Rich_Magician4516 12h ago

Listen? Heck they used it as a blueprint instead of a warning.  Just like the Matrix and Terminator and Titanic.

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u/AboutTimeToDelete 16h ago

Privatization of war kills everyone. Money can't see the difference between enemies and allies.

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u/reggiesdiner 12h ago

This sends a toxic signal for American businesses in the military industrial complex. Why would anyone buy American equipment for their military after this? In particular, the F35 with its “kill switch” that is subject to the whims of any future president.

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u/TarArov 10h ago

The situation really highlights the massive risk of relying entirely on a private tech billionaires private satellite network for essential national infrastructure,, When a single commercial entity can effectively control the communication lines of entire countries during a crisis, it leaves governments in a incredibly vulnerable position,,

and it is a wild reminder that outsourcing critical defense and communications tech to private companies usually backfires when actual geopolitical conflicts kick off,, Hopefully, this serves as a massive wake up call for the EU to finally accelerate their own sovereign satellite alternatives instead of just footing the bill for someone else's platform

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u/l-rs2 13h ago

The lesson that nothing American can ultimately be trusted to work or not be crippled is being reinforced over and over and over.

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u/Moontoya 17h ago

Using terms and conditions against the manufacturer 

How very German

Gwan ye , Slava Ukrani 

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u/Maleficent-Visual-12 17h ago

Sadly we don't have affordable alternatives. Otherwise the EU would have switched already

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u/Royal-Lawfulness630 17h ago

Please make musk lose a shitton of money. He is a fucking cunt.

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u/BananaPalmer 13h ago

This was a gift to Putin from the White House. Trump and Hegseth have furnished aid to an enemy of the US.

Literal treason, like the actual legal definition of treason.

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u/Traumatan 18h ago

I though Poland already paid for it

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u/intothewild72 17h ago

Many countries pay for it, even private citizens can donate money for it. There are charities that gather money, buy starlinks and send to Ukraine.

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u/EuphoricCover8449 17h ago

Expecting Washington to honour contracts and the rule of law is hoping for the best these days.

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u/NextGen-Panic 15h ago

The global finance industry also runs on contracts that must be honored, no matter how expensive.

What happens when the entire planet doesn't have enough to pay what they REALLY owe?

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u/kokakamora 15h ago

Realistically, how much work would it be to create an alternative to Starlink?

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u/down_with_opp_42 15h ago

A lot. Eutelsat started ~50 years ago and ~15bn € have been invested into it. Present costs for expansion and maintenance are ~1.2bn € per year.

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u/ayoblub 14h ago

Iris² is going to launch the first satellites in about 2 years time. Those are intended as a similiar 330 LEO constellation as starlink and 18 at MEO higher up as the backbone.

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u/Grabsch 15h ago

Look up into the night sky and count the starlink satellites.

Then estimate how much it costs to shoot these up into space and understand that its not an overnight fix

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u/MeGoBrrrrrrrrrr 14h ago

Estimated cost would be interesting though

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u/RGINNY940 12h ago

Starlink is only possible because of SpaceX Launch Vehicles.

The satellites all have very low orbits, they deorbit within a few years.

You have to constantly be delivering more and more to space.

Currently, no one has even close to the launch cadence of SpaceX.

SpaceX launched more rockets than the rest of the world combined in 2025.

And beyond that cadence, is price. SpaceX payloads are about 5x cheaper than payloads on other vehicles (500 million $ launch cost, vs $90 million).

Long story short, there wont be a proper competitor for Starlink for many years, and even then, they will still likely not be as cost efficient.

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u/SonOfJaak 15h ago

Amazon is working on it, but it's years away still.

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u/Masam10 14h ago edited 13h ago

You mean Amazon, another American company, who’s CEO frequents the current American president’s events?

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u/Vinral 11h ago

Another American company lead by another evil billionaire.

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u/Azukaos 15h ago

Amazon is still an US thing, what EU need is an alternative for the EU, no more ingerence from countries that want nothing but pain and suffering from us.

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u/EvrartNiki 15h ago

It is coming in 2029 iris2

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u/sskuss 14h ago

Hold on Ukraine, only 2-3 years left.

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u/exbiiuser02 14h ago

“Coming”

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u/francis2559 12h ago

EU needs reusable launch first, that's what allowed Musk to do this in the first place.

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u/sublurkerrr 11h ago

EU didn't fund innovation and ended up dependent on the US. I hope that changes now.

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u/Einszwo12 15h ago

I worked with the kuiper guys… not trivial. Still have some friends in that org. Pressure is on.

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u/Fabulous_Disk_8956 18h ago

I'd appreciate it if SpaceX would put Elon Musk on a rocket and launch him into outer space.

His 5 billion children will do a good job spreading all the wealth he's hoarding too. 

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u/ironbrewcanada 14h ago

This should immediately result in the cancelling of all military purchases from the USA. Remember there is no kill switch in the F35, but... the USA controls all the software (unless you are Israel).

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u/Powerful-Tie7370 16h ago

Why the hell is the European union getting fucked in the same style as me when I owned a HP printer?

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u/zs6buj 9h ago

It's great to see European and other leaders standing up to the schoolyard bully. Appeasing a bully is always a bad idea

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u/DerbyForget 13h ago

The quicker we can stop relying on those fucking idiots across the pond the better.

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u/Tasty_Orange_1714 10h ago

Launch your own system. You know you can't trust Elon. This is not a surprise. End dependence on idiots. Diy.

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u/tismij 9h ago

They are its just not something you can do very fast, takes years. Will happen though and then the US has lost even more of its world power.

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u/Reddit_2_2024 3h ago

Thank you Germany!

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u/CuriousGeorgeToday 15h ago

And this is the reason when people ask why Europe is trying to move away from US tech. They will determine your access to tech you thought would protect you but it's whatever is in their interest.

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u/lateniteearlybird 15h ago

then have the guts to do what Brazil did when they had trouble with X ... sanction them

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u/ddeacon22 16h ago

Depending on your point of view in who is to blame this can be looked at in multiple ways. If Musk was involved or complicit, stop buying from him and outlaw him from government contracts. If this was a US Administration decision, everyone buying software-controlled weapons from the US should cancel the contracts citing national security. I’m thinking F35s etc. if the US will do this for satellites they most certainly will do it with anything they control.

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u/Dapper_1534 17h ago

This is one of the risks of using American tech. They are trying to hold the world hostage.

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u/fauxbleu 17h ago

Imagine if major road and rail work were to block access to Tesla factories

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u/afroafroguy 11h ago

The EU, NATO and all countries that still have a functioning democracy need to mark Elon as an agent of a foreign principal, and flag all his companies, products and services as suspicious/compromised. Besos, Zuckerberg, Theil, Altman all of them should be under investigation for links to Russia and far right political interference. Fuck all of these Billionaire facist pricks.

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u/_LifeMatters_ 14h ago

I might invest in Eutelsat as part of a long-term strategy after all.

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u/qqererer 13h ago

And people say that Canadians are being unreasonable when it comes to the still debated remainder of F35s should be cancelled because the US can ground them.

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u/KF95 10h ago

Time for the EU to speed up the rollout of Eutelsat OneWeb and the launch of IRIS².

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u/yukumizu 13h ago

Musk pointed the finger to the Whitehouse and now it is reported that the order indeed came from within.

More evidence that the rest of the world should divest and decouple from the US and US corporations.

We have a Russian agent, compromised by Israel (Epstein), who is a traitor to the constitution, as president of the US.

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u/SkipioZor 9h ago

Europe should arrest Elon on treason and sabotage charges.

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u/Pigerigby 14h ago

Maybe we should stop privatizing things kinda a national security risk...

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u/CommanderJarik 9h ago

The UK and EU should nationalize ALL American and Musk properties. Fuck them both.

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u/Repulsive_Ad_6958 4h ago

Musk should be treated as a war criminal.

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u/Ok_Commission_9203 16h ago

Musk is a treasonous POS

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u/im_dead_sirius 16h ago edited 6h ago

Its good that the rest of the world is starting to play Trump for money. Implausible profits promised by Putin will be definite income losses from us.

The unsettled, grasping, senile old mountebank will scuttle his own ship chasing mutually exclusive options.

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u/Vanilla_Quark 15h ago

There are Euro satellite internet providers - EU should preference their own satellites

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u/Secret_Dark8903 15h ago

Time for us to make our own

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u/rooplstilskin 15h ago

One day, a foreign entity is going to get real tired of the cult's shit. We'll be in for a rough time then.

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u/Important-Grape-2720 14h ago

I thought Poland was already paying for it?

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u/HellaTroi 13h ago

Germany says they were paying for it.

President Shitsinpants is aligning our country with our arch nemesis Russia, who is helping Iran target our troop bases in the Middle East.

Trump had to have given that order.

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u/5x0uf5o 8h ago

Sanction Elon Musk

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u/nslenders 17h ago

Put the US bases in the EU on dialup speeds for a while. See how they like it.

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u/RobotSpaceBear 16h ago

The subject we're discussing is their satellite Internet capabilities. And youe retaliation idea is to pretend they're using our landlines for their military operations in Europe?

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u/goatsyphon 16h ago

welcome to reddit where the morons rule the roost

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u/Confident-Pace4314 14h ago

I am ashamed of my countries betrayal.

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u/UncleJimneedsyou 17h ago

Everyone worldwide should boycott this fuckers companies.

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u/black_52 16h ago

Time to use EUTELSAT

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u/polocinkyketaminky 16h ago

best thing for EU to do is to build something like starlink.

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u/AnomalyNexus 14h ago

No amount of money can make a crooked person straight

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u/narfoleptix 14h ago

Does nobody else have internet to give them?

Best eay to get rid of a Billy (billionaire) is to make their services uneeded.