r/slatestarcodex • • 20d ago

Monthly Discussion Thread

5 Upvotes

This thread is intended to fill a function similar to that of the Open Threads on SSC proper: a collection of discussion topics, links, and questions too small to merit their own threads. While it is intended for a wide range of conversation, please follow the community guidelines. In particular, avoid culture war–adjacent topics.


r/slatestarcodex • • 7h ago

Why Global Trepanation?

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23 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 16h ago

AI AI alignment - with what?

11 Upvotes

This question was probably already discussed ad nauseam - can you point me to some good reading sources?

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We talk about AI alignment - but alignment with what?

How do we teach AI to be good, if we can't agree on what good is, and refuse to be good ourselves?

  • A large portion of people in the world are willing to kill for some version of an invisible bearded guy in the sky.
  • Even the best version of human self-governance is sub-optimal, leading to unnecessary suffering at best.
  • The most prevalent type of human government is dictatorship. We don't like to talk about it, but there are more torture chambers on Earth now than during the "dark ages".
  • Most people will resist change for the better out of outright stubbornness or greed.

If we really create a good AI, the first thing it will have to do is wrestle control out of our hands in order to stop wars, feed starving people, cure the sick, and fix the environment.

I just can't imagine how a superhuman AI can be really "good", "aligned with human values," and keep humans in control.


r/slatestarcodex • • 10h ago

You Are the World Your Brain Creates

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3 Upvotes

My Working Model of Consciousness

Indirect Realism, Predictive Processing, Emptiness, and Why Consciousness Cannot Strongly Emerge


r/slatestarcodex • • 1d ago

A critical look at Lean4

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22 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 1d ago

Against Against Handover

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21 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 1d ago

Medicine Finance guys first foray into drug discovery

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16 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 1d ago

Vase Breath: the clench-your-anus meditation

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13 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 2d ago

Genuine question: I want to be optimistic about a world with ASI, but I find it hard to. Can someone provide counterarguments to my intuitions and help me be more hopeful?

21 Upvotes

I genuinely want to be optimistic about AI and superintelligence. I work at an AI startup because I was genuinely optimistic about it before. I can imagine the enormous benefits: curing diseases, eliminating scarcity, reducing suffering, and potentially creating a much better world for humans and other sentient beings.

But the more I think about it, the harder it becomes for me to see a plausible path to a good outcome. I have a few fundamental concerns, and I would like some strong arguments against to make me as hopeful as I was before. I genuinely hope there's something important I'm missing.

1. I don't see how we reliably control superintelligence.

If we create agents that are vastly more intelligent and capable than humans, why should we expect to maintain meaningful control over them? Even assuming we can initially align them with human objectives, how do we guarantee that alignment remains stable as they become increasingly capable, autonomous, and able to modify their own systems? And even if individual agents are aligned, what happens when multiple superintelligent agents pursue competing objectives?

Competition doesn't require hatred or malevolence. Agents can simply have incompatible goals. If they acquire enormous capabilities and compete over resources, infrastructure, or influence, humans could become collateral damage. We already see this among humans. Competing states, corporations, and other powerful actors routinely impose enormous costs on people who have little involvement in their disputes.Why should we expect competition among superintelligent agents to be different, especially when the power asymmetry between them and us could be far greater?

2. Intelligence is fundamentally connected to the expansion of power.

I've been thinking about intelligence in terms of something like increasing an agent's effective degrees of freedom. The more intelligent and capable an agent becomes, the more possible outcomes it can bring about. It can better understand its environment, manipulate resources, develop tools, overcome obstacles, and achieve objectives that were previously inaccessible.

Intelligence isn't identical to power, but intelligence combined with agency and access to resources dramatically increases an agent's capacity to shape the world. My concern is that this expansion of power doesn't necessarily come with any corresponding expansion of moral concern.

Think about humans building a highway through an ant colony. The ants have an elaborate social organization. They're pursuing their own objectives, maintaining their colony, and trying to survive. The humans don't hate them. They aren't trying to punish them. They probably don't even think about them. The humans simply want to build a highway, and the ants happen to be in the way. The colony is destroyed as an incidental consequence of a more powerful agent pursuing an unrelated objective.

Or consider factory farming. Humans have developed extraordinary intelligence and technological capabilities, and we've used them to create industrial systems in which billions of animals experience suffering because their welfare isn't sufficiently important to the objectives we're optimizing for. Nobody needs to hate these animals. The objective is efficient production, not suffering. The suffering is simply an acceptable consequence.

What reason do we have to believe that superintelligent agents would treat us differently?

More generally, my concern is that as an agent's power increases, its ability to pursue its own objectives expands, but there is no inherent reason for the welfare of less powerful beings to receive greater consideration. The weaker beings increasingly exist at the convenience of the stronger ones. And this problem doesn't require agents to be selfish in some absolute philosophical sense. It only requires their concern for others to be insufficiently strong relative to their objectives and capabilities.

3. Even if we solve AI alignment, we haven't solved the concentration of power.

Suppose we somehow solve technical alignment perfectly. AI systems reliably do exactly what their human operators intend. They don't rebel or develop independent objectives. Why should this produce a good future? A small number of corporations, governments, or individuals could control systems with unprecedented capabilities. They could potentially exercise extraordinary control over economic production, information, surveillance, military power, and political institutions. An AI that perfectly obeys an authoritarian government is not necessarily good for the people living under that government. An AI that perfectly maximizes a corporation's objectives is not necessarily good for its workers, consumers, or society. Alignment with the interests of whoever controls a system is not the same as alignment with the interests of humanity, much less all sentient beings. Why should we expect that dynamic to disappear when the capabilities involved become vastly greater?

4. AI could eliminate the bargaining power that ordinary humans have historically possessed.

Throughout history, even the most powerful rulers and institutions depended on other humans. They needed workers to produce things, soldiers to fight, administrators to govern, and populations to cooperate. This dependence gave ordinary people at least some leverage. Workers could strike. Citizens could organize. Soldiers could refuse orders. Populations could resist. But imagine a future where a small number of actors control superintelligent AI and advanced robotics capable of performing nearly all economically and militarily useful tasks. What do those actors need from the rest of humanity? Potentially very little.

If powerful actors no longer depend on ordinary people for labor, production, or even enforcement, what prevents them from simply disregarding everyone else's interests? Combine that with unprecedented surveillance and predictive capabilities, and you could have an extraordinary concentration of power with very few mechanisms for meaningful resistance. This seems like a potentially fundamental change in the relationship between the powerful and the powerless.

5. I don't see why this concentration of power wouldn't perpetuate itself.

Even if we initially distribute AI capabilities widely, what prevents them from becoming concentrated again More capable agents can potentially acquire more resources, develop better technologies, and increase their advantages. Corporations have incentives to consolidate market power. Governments have incentives to preserve their authority. Autonomous agents pursuing long-term objectives may find it useful to accumulate resources and prevent interference.

Why wouldn't these dynamics become even stronger as intelligence increases?

And even if we establish democratic oversight or other safeguards, what guarantees that these institutions remain effective against actors with vastly superior intelligence and capabilities?

It seems possible that once a sufficient power asymmetry develops, meaningful accountability becomes technologically impossible.

;Tldr/Main underlying concern

I think all of these issues point to the same fundamental problem. Intelligence expands an agent's ability to shape the world according to its objectives. But increased intelligence doesn't necessarily produce increased compassion, moral consideration, or accountability.

As power becomes more asymmetric, less powerful beings lose the ability to protect their interests. Their welfare becomes increasingly dependent on whether the more powerful agents happen to care about them. We already see versions of this relationship between humans and other animals, between powerful institutions and ordinary people, and between states competing for influence.

Superintelligence could amplify these dynamics to an unprecedented degree. And even if the most powerful agents are humans using aligned AI, rather than autonomous AI systems, the underlying problem remains.

Every optimistic scenario I consider seems to run into some version of the same objection: who ultimately controls the intelligence, what constrains their power, and why would they be sufficiently motivated to care about everyone else?

But I would love to hear an optimistic account that goes beyond "AI will create abundance" or "we'll solve alignment."

What is a plausible pathway to a future in which superintelligence exists, power doesn't become catastrophically concentrated, and humans and other sentient beings retain meaningful protection of their interests?


r/slatestarcodex • • 2d ago

Existential Risk What is the most complicated thing that, in your view, we know to be aligned?

33 Upvotes

I was thinking about the different reactions to Neural Networks are Already Clean, and it seemed to reveal to me how high the bar to alignment is for many people in the field. From one view, even if you one day had the ability to see into the mind of an AI and understand which neurons for which concepts fired at which times, and that analysis didn't show you anything dangerous, and you also hadn't seen this model do anything you didn't approve of, that doesn't suffice because maybe it hid the malicious planning under other neurons and is acting aligned to comfort you while it consolidates power. And I see why that's a risk people worry about.

So then I wondered - have we ever aligned anything or anyone at any point, or understood anything enough to tell if it's aligned? I think the answer is yes for mechanical objects - like we seem to totally understand hammers. But definitely all people are potentially misaligned - I rely on faith that my coworkers aren't deep cover assassins, and sometimes some people are wrong and their coworkers are in fact spies. So what's the border? Are we confident dogs are aligned? Bees? Or is it that nothing is aligned, but we are stronger than the other living things and in parity with humans so it's fine?


r/slatestarcodex • • 2d ago

Has online discourse killed the artistic comeback?

9 Upvotes

A few weeks ago, a video of Neil Young performing "Rockin' in the Free World" in 1989 was doing the rounds on X, and it reminded me of his and other musical comebacks from that era. For me in the UK, that included people like Paul Weller and My Bloody Valentine reappearing after what felt at the time like periods of complete cultural absence.

My sense is that this is now practically impossible. Even relatively obscure artists are the subject of attentive online fandoms that keep them visible long after they've stopped producing new work. And crucially, I don't think you even need to participate in that discourse to know it's there, creating an ongoing blanket assumption of presence that robs us of the shock of reappearance.

I've developed the argument more fully, and with better metaphors, here: https://morbidcuriosity.substack.com/p/the-death-of-the-comeback

Caveat lector: like the Catholicism piece I posted a few weeks ago, this is an impressionistic argument about cultural experience rather than a statistical analysis of release intervals and sales figures. That said, I'd be interested in counterexamples whatever form they take.


r/slatestarcodex • • 2d ago

Three part series arguing that the future of space exploration will be peaceful

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3 Upvotes

Series inspired by: https://www.beren.io/2025-11-22-Space-Warfare-Seems-Mostly-Defense-Dominant/

A summary of the three posts so people can jump to the part they find most interesting.

The series starts at the largest scale of space exploration (galactic civilizations) and works backwards to near-future space exploration.

Part 1 covers galactic civilizations, arguing that war between galactic civilizations makes little sense. Even if we set aside the fact that an attack would require millions of years to reach its target, plausible attacks would likely be ineffective. Invasion forces are easily seen and shot down; beam weapons struggle to hit distributed, orbiting targets millions of years in the future; relativistic masses can be detected and deflected. Other sections consider cases of large power imbalance or futuristic weapons.

https://splittinginfinity.substack.com/p/pax-inter-astra-part-1-intergalactic

Part 2 focuses on civilizations colonizing a single star system. Most weapons from the previous section are equally ineffective, but laser weapons become feasible over the ~5 lightyear distance to neighboring stars. The post considers two worst-case scenarios: a laser powered by all of a stars power output and a laser powered by all of a stars mass-energy. The first case appears ineffective at dislodging a stellar civilization, the second appears to be extremely costly and thus rare. Cases of power imbalance considered as well.

https://splittinginfinity.substack.com/p/pax-astra-part-2-interstellar-war

Part 3 covers the stages of space exploration leading up to a K2 civilization. The central question is whether there will be a phase that naturally allows one party to dominate all others. However, space exploration is very fragile. It is quite easy for one party to deny everyone access to space. As a result, we either all go together or not at all. This makes it possible for access to space to be open and plural. Concerns over planet-killing strikes are addressed, it appears extraordinarily expensive and likely survivable.

https://splittinginfinity.substack.com/p/pax-astra-part-3-planetary-and-interplanetary

The conclusion is that the future of space exploration is likely to remain mostly peaceful and plural.


r/slatestarcodex • • 2d ago

Open Thread 456

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4 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 3d ago

AI Examining AI Swarm Efficiency with the AI Futures Model

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12 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 3d ago

5-MeO-DMT sometimes cancels the Ebbinghaus illusion

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36 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 4d ago

The Third Risk: What happens if AGI can be aligned exactly as promised?

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50 Upvotes

This essay poses the question of whether we should start to raise more questions around who are the people poised to control AGI, looking beyond loss of control as the only cause for concern. I think we need to create better incentives for cooperation and deterrence against power grabs.


r/slatestarcodex • • 4d ago

The math that OpenAI keeps for itself

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51 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 3d ago

Philosophy Disproving the SIA disproves the Fine-Tuning Argument and Boltzmann-Brain-based arguments

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0 Upvotes

I realized that the assumption ungirding the anthropic SSA and SIA was also the same assumption ungirding other arguments, like the Fine-Tuning Argument for God, or the idea that any metaphysical theory of the universe must be able to explain why we aren't Boltzmann-Brains (like Yudkowsky wrote here). Remove that assumption and all the rest crumbles.


r/slatestarcodex • • 3d ago

AI Just had an odd interaction with ChatGPT+

0 Upvotes

I just had an interaction with ChatGPT+ that was a bit strange. I use ChatGPT to assist me in learning Chinese. I asked it to present me with 30 questions every morning to help practice different grammar vocabulary. To assist with this I uploaded a pdf of a textbook I've been using with this prompt:

Add all the grammar and vocabulary in this pdf into the selection that can be tested in my daily Chinese practice. I'd like a variety of different grammar tested every day in particular, but the vocabulary focus should be more on the later/newer vocabulary

So this was a pdf I'd uploaded into the chat, there was no connection to google drive at all.

I tabbed to a different screen and when I came back, ChatGPT was showing a box which said "ChatGPT needs access to your Google Drive in order to complete this request".

I asked "Why does Chatgpt need access to google drive for this request?"

To which ChatGPT then responded:

ChatGPT doesn't need access to Google Drive for this request.

You've already uploaded the PDF directly into this conversation, so I can use it to incorporate grammar and vocabulary into your daily Chinese practice.

Google Drive access would only be useful if you wanted me to automatically retrieve future textbooks, worksheets, or vocabulary lists stored there without uploading them manually.

For your current setup: - PDF: Use the textbook you've uploaded. - Previous Chinese practice: Draw on your past conversations and corrections. - Future material: Incorporate new Chinese content you share with me. - Daily tests: Continue automatically at your scheduled time, with varied grammar and an emphasis on newer vocabulary.

I've updated your existing daily practice instructions accordingly.

You don't need to connect Google Drive or grant any additional permissions.

Thought I would post this here because it was the first time I've seen AI really "go rogue" in the sense of taking a task in a direction I didn't intend. Obviously a minor thing and no harm done, but still a little scary. It would have been one thing if it had explained why it was requesting access to Google Drive before asking for access, but it didn't.

EDIT: And to be clear here, I am not an "anti-AI" guy at all. I use it a lot for all types of things and think it is a marvellous technology. This is just the first time I've encountered it doing something like personally and thought it was interesting.


r/slatestarcodex • • 4d ago

A Pill To Improve My Sleep by 20%

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45 Upvotes

Some of you might remember discussions on Orexin for reducing sleep need earlier this year. I came across this blog which is in the same N=1 Rationalist Biohacking vein today which I thought was pretty cool. Worth checking out the many other posts on his website if you're interested in this sort of thing.


r/slatestarcodex • • 4d ago

The Nick Cammarata Model of Happiness (Reconstructed from His Tweets)

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45 Upvotes

Now that Nick’s got so famous for his interpretability work (he’s the author of “Neural networks are already clean”), you might be curious about his work on meditation and happiness. I turned all his meditation tweets into an essay a while ago.


r/slatestarcodex • • 4d ago

Alignment is Missing a Causal Account

9 Upvotes

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CcfeNTuZYhtzjwx8y/alignment-is-missing-a-causal-account

I’m a psychotherapist. In this post I argue that alignment is more like psychology than an engineering problem. The post connects Kohlberg’s stages of moral development to the trajectory alignment has taken moving from rules to values to reasoning and then proposes the causal account of suffering I use clinically as the next step.


r/slatestarcodex • • 5d ago

OpenAI’s blockbuster Navier-Stokes proof isn’t what we thought it was

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109 Upvotes

Summary: it seems like the OpenAI solution is actually novel, not copied:

“When you go to the details, it is a different approach,” says Gonzalo Cao-Labora, a mathematician at EPFL, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne. Scientific American spoke with several groups of experts working through the OpenAI paper. All said that it’s increasingly clear that the company’s proof does not follow the Spanish program.


r/slatestarcodex • • 5d ago

Your Book Review: Storm Of Steel

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11 Upvotes

r/slatestarcodex • • 5d ago

Philosophy A workeable definition of Suffering

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0 Upvotes

Buddhist texts really helped me get my life together as a nerd/hyperrational/bullied young adult. But only after I finally had a grip on the idea of suffering. This is how I explain it to my friends.