r/politics • u/ChiGuy6124 Illinois • 9h ago
No Paywall ‘I’m allowed to do a self-pardon’: Trump opens the door to pardons for staff and himself
https://www.ms.now/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-pardons-himself-white-house-staff-administration1.1k
u/TheBlanc0ne 9h ago
The Mooch said it - Trump will pardon everyone he can on his way out
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u/lilb1190 9h ago
Of course. He needs to protect them so they will protect him
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u/ChiGuy6124 Illinois 9h ago edited 8h ago
Of course. He needs to protect them so they will protect him
Absofuckinglutly!. If he doesn't protect them they will turn on him. I think it is safe to assume that while the moronic voters may worship him, the idiots surrounding him (most of them at least), are not true believers, they are cynical scumbags riding his coattails.
Every crime boss. (and trump is a crime boss), with an ounce of intelligence knows that you do everything you can to keep your underlings out of jail, and if they end up in jail, you pay them off to keep them quiet. In this case the payoff is guaranteed. Payoffs come in pardons and money and trump has both.
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u/ElectricSliderz 6h ago
I’m hoping Rand Paul’s crusade against Fauci might result in preemptive pardons being deemed unenforceable under the law. I don’t wish the fallout for Fauci but if it results in these rats being held to account then it could be worth it.
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u/hitch44 Canada 9h ago
A government of the pedos, by the pedos, for the pedos that will hopefully be dissolved and convicted from this earth.
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u/WisePresentation7976 9h ago
Pardons don't work on civil lawsuits.
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u/Drama79 9h ago
Nor at state level criminal stuff. Just federal. There is always a way.
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u/Blackthorn79 9h ago
Pardon also come with the assumption of guilt. That can't help in a civil case and it's not like they can suppress the pardons since they'll be national news.
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u/Marshall1337 8h ago
Yep an accepted pardon and admission of guilt can get you de-barred among other things. It’s not the “get out of crimes free” card people imagine it to be.
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u/Ryan_e3p 9h ago
On his way out? Friend, the pardons have already been filled out and signed. They are just waiting for a date to be written on them. That shit is part of the onboarding process now for this administration.
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u/driftingatwork 9h ago
So effectively we will have a blacklist - everyone who gets a pardon is immediately ostracized. WAAAHHHH I can't do anything because everyone hates me and I got a pardon - well, if you weren't a walking piece of shit, maybe that might be the reason too.
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u/HGpennypacker 8h ago
I don't think people are aware of the scope of pardons that will be handed out, hundreds and hundreds.
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u/EE_Tim 8h ago
Im betting the pardon is as broad as "anyone ever registered as Republican as of today."
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u/oldcreaker 9h ago
We need to stop allowing pardons as a way of granting immunity. Pardons should only be allowed for convictions. If you're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, a pardon should not be possible until you have been proven guilty of a crime - if you're innocent, there is nothing to pardon.
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u/jivemasta 8h ago
If Trump taught us anything, its that all of this is made up and you can do whatever you want as long as more people let you do it than don't let you. So i say take a page from his book, let him pardon himself and think he's safe. Then when he is out of power, just ignore the pardon and charge him anyway.
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u/TheLastTransHero 7h ago
Just pardon yourself for ignoring the pardon, problem solved
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u/purpilia25 6h ago
Whoa! You really did just solve the sphinx’s riddle. This is absolutely the workaround! And it is deliciously spiteful to turn their own weapons against them!
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u/Dan-D-Lyon 8h ago
Honestly, maybe we just say "fuck pardons" and abandon the entire concept.
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u/DMCinDet 7h ago
I agree. We dont need to honor pardons of criminal co conspirators. We dont need to honor a president self pardoning for any crime.
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u/Bill_Brasky_SOB Ohio 5h ago
Whats worse: He convinces people to commit crimes at his behest because he says he'll pardon them. He's not forgiving wrongful convictions, he's ENCOURAGING criminality.
That, obviously, in no way shape or form is what the purpose of a pardon was ever intended for.
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u/troyandabedinabed Washington 1h ago
A lot of GOP governors are also selling pardons for $$ and favors.
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u/obliqueoubliette 5h ago
There is a strong case for this within current US case law.
A self pardon is an inherently corrupt act - the public official (presidential office) recieves a "thing of value" (a pardon) for an official act (the pardon).
Corrupt acts are legally invalid.
This has never been ruled on, but was generally accepted by the American government and populace for the first 240 years of the country. This is why governors don't pardon themselves, why Nixon didn't pardon himself, etc.
There's a case this even extends to the president's co-conspirators.
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u/nickiter New York 7h ago
Replace the presidential pardon power with a narrowly defined clemency that can never do anything beyond reducing prison time or preventing an execution.
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u/freebytes 7h ago
Or give the power to 2/3rds support of Congress.
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u/-Saucegurlllll 5h ago
Or just get rid of the pardon entirely and fix the horrendously broken justice system that requires such a thing in the first place.
The pardon is a bandaid. It's seen as necessary only because our justice system seeks punishment for criminals, not actual justice. It does little to nothing to help the victims, to restore the communities affected by crime, to prevent the next crime, or to rehabilitate those who commit crime.
No one should need the power to pardon in the first place, because the purpose of a justice system should not be to torment those convicted of crimes and isolate them from society.
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u/LeRoyRouge 4h ago
For real pardons were always meant to be something used to fix a conviction that maybe was too punitive, or for people who had really turned their life around.
It was never meant to be a license to commit crime.
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u/CryptoTipToe71 4h ago
The idea of pardons in theory makes sense, especially at the time of the foundation of the usa. It's just another means of the three branches of government regulating each other. As recent history shows, however, it's ripe for abuse when we have a pedophile despot leading the executive branch
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u/68024 Colorado 5h ago
I don't think it should be abolished but it should not be controlled by a single person.
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u/flamethrower2 8h ago
Requires constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. Amendments are usually introduced in Congress and I'm not aware of any with the pardon as their subject.
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u/puts_on_SCP3197 8h ago
Executive order to undo the pardon, haven’t you learned anything this time around?
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u/AltoidChewer 9h ago
Nope, not a possibility. If a president could self-pardon, then Nixon would never have left office
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u/ChiGuy6124 Illinois 9h ago edited 9h ago
Sadly that was a different time and a different Supreme Court. Today. Nixon would have never resigned.
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u/MoonPieKitty Michigan 9h ago
His immunity only covers "official presidential acts", and SCOTUS left determining what was official and not official up to the lower courts. He can't pardon himself, and there is still hope he can be prosecuted. This is why he is panicking.
Also, whatever is happening with Russia and Ukraine right now, and the whole star link business.. that is sounding like treason. Aiding our enemy. That can't be allowed.
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u/Vio_ Kansas 9h ago
The problem (with their construct) is that they treat his "official presidential acts" as being immune from prosecution, but that his "unofficial presidential acts" don't count as they are considered to be a private citizen construct.
And then they will flip flop between official and unofficial designations to whichever is most politically and legally expedient to protect Trump from prosecution.
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u/Izisery 9h ago
There are acts that he can do that are neither Private Citizen nor covered by Presidential Immunity still.
Such as Meddling in Elections as an example. As a private Citizen he has neither the authority nor access to gain information on voters. Only as a President could he interfere with elections. However, as a president he has been told repeatedly in numerous court ruling across the country that the office of the president has no authority to meddle in elections. He has lost every single court case where he's tried to gain access.
So if he tries to put his thumb on the scale during the midterms and gets caught doing it, Neither Presidential Immunity nor Private Citizenship will protect him.
There are other examples as well, such as using classified information the president has access to with the intent to enrich himself or his family. I don't think congress will want anyone to prosecute him on that though.
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u/CyclonusRIP 8h ago
What if he orders the DoJ to meddle in the elections. Surely directing the executive branch departments is an official act and you can’t use an official act as evidence of a illegal unofficial act so good luck proving any crime where he orders someone in the executive branch to do something illegal.
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u/MoonPieKitty Michigan 7h ago
Once they lose both houses (fingers crossed) he may not be able to hide behind that bullshit any longer.
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u/P1xelHunter78 Michigan 9h ago
It can’t be allowed, but I’m sure they’re going to try and Wiesel around it by saying that we’re not at war with Russia so they’re not our enemy. Of course in a sane world we’d understand that helping Russia is helping our enemies. I mean, we sure tried the Rosenbergs for treason in helping the Russians, despite not being at war with them didn’t we?
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u/MoonPieKitty Michigan 9h ago
Technically, we aren't at war with Russia, but we are with Iran and Russia is helping Iran target our troops. So, yeah... treason.
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u/BuddhaLennon 8h ago
You’re not at war with Iran, either. The constitution clearly states that only congress can declare war, so whatever shit Kegsbreath and Orange Man are doing to Iran, it’s not war.
Which brings up an interesting point: if there is no war, could members of the Administration be charged with conspiring to murder someone in a foreign country? This is the same charge leveled at the man in Washington state who was helping the Tumbler Ridge mass shooter.
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u/P1xelHunter78 Michigan 9h ago
That is an important and under reported distinction. Part of it, to be fair, is the new world order after the bomb that means nuclear powers need to be extremely careful to not accidentally declare war on each other, but, the precedent from the Cold War is clear. If, for example, Johnson had stopped giving aviation fuel to the ARVN because the Russians promised him a hotel in Moscow, they’d have Johnson’s head on a spike.
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u/LiveNvanByRiver 8h ago
We are not at war with Iran either. Only congress can declare war. This whole thing is illegal.
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u/RussellGrey 9h ago
This supreme court is probably just going to say he’s not aiding the enemy because the president can determine who is and is not an enemy.
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u/eskimospy212 9h ago
The immunity ruling is so broad that it is unlikely he can ever be convicted of any crime for what he does in office.
I mean the example they used as something he was absolutely immune for was ordering the DOJ to engage in corrupt investigations and prosecutions of his political enemies.
If he can do that and be immune he can probably do almost anything so long as he orders an executive branch official to do it. (And then pardons them)
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u/MoonPieKitty Michigan 9h ago
But is he immune to treason? He's helping Russia in the war with Ukraine, while Russia is helping Iran while we are at work with Iran. It makes no effing sense. I've been so upset by this news, it is heartbreaking what we are doing to Ukraine.
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u/Minimum-Relief6895 6h ago
Yes. Prosecutors can't even investigate it under the Supreme Court ruling.
You are failing to see how bad that ruling was.
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u/Adventurous_Salt 7h ago
There. Aren't. Rules. Only power matters and the gop will simply decide which ones they won't follow and dare the dems to do something about it. They will continue to do as they please until stopped because they have seized power and democracy is being dismantled. No words on paper are coming to your rescue.
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u/StevenMC19 9h ago
This supreme court...
"We are powerless." proceeds to allow things they actually have the power to challenge
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u/supercyberlurker 9h ago
Yep. 6 to 3 they will say Trump can do it.
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u/Dull_Job_6372 9h ago
John Roberts destroyed this country.
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u/shaggrugg 9h ago
*assisted Billionaires to stay in control. Country probably down the tubes no matter what but tbc there are massive winners with this courts decisions
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u/aranasyn Colorado 9h ago
We'll just get him on state charges. Lord knows he's committed enough crimes that dual sovereignty is in play.
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u/dog_hair_everywhere 9h ago edited 1h ago
The conservative legal movement literally coalesced around the idea that they have to stop a conservative President from being convicted of crimes ever again. Because OF COURSE they NEED to commit these crimes for the GOOD of the country. It’s not their fault laws are based on morality and the moral thing is they can do what they want as long as it makes them and their cohorts rich. If the serfs don’t agree it’s because they can’t see the big picture
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u/makemisteaks 9h ago
Roger Ailes, who was a young aide to Nixon, always felt that the reason he resigned was because they didn’t have a media apparatus to shield conservative presidents. This deeply shaped his view in creating Fox News. So that history would not repeat itself.
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u/TheAskewOne 9h ago
Nixon resigned because Democrats had a majority in both chambers of Congress. If you read articles from those years, you’ll see that right wing media and officials wrote exactly the same they write about Trump, witch hunt etc.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 9h ago
Nixon had an ounce of shame. Trump does not.
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u/honjuden 9h ago
Nixon had no shame, he just didn't have the full unconditional backing of every Republican in Congress.
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u/ClashM California 9h ago
he just didn't have the full unconditional backing of every Republican in Congress.
Oh he did. They were ready to defend him, but their political strategists started sounding the alarms. His guilt was so empirically known to the general public by that point that defending him would cost them all their seats. That's why they had him resign and then spent the next several decades weakening media protections until they could create disinformation networks. Nixon directly lead to Trump.
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u/InfiniteWinter26 9h ago
yup. nixon gave us roger ailes who gave us murdoch and fox and the rest is history.
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u/Teripid 9h ago
I'm not sure he had shame. There was just a different level of accountability, news, reporting etc that age.
We've been so desensitized during the Trump terms. Wall grift, contracting gift, NFTs, bibles, etc. Military actions.. ICE and things generally falling apart. And that's the stuff clearly visible on the surface.
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u/kung-fu_hippy 9h ago
Nixon wouldn’t have been allowed to do 90% of what Trump has done and remained in office. Unfortunately laws only mean as much as those enforcing them want them to.
Which kind of makes pardoning himself completely pointless. If Trump pardons himself before leaving office and is followed by another Republican, he’d never face charges.
If he pardons himself and the democrats manage to get the presidency back and somehow repair the Supreme Court and actually go after Trump rather than trying to pretend the last several years never happened, then the pardon probably wouldnt hold up.
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u/siraliases 9h ago
What's stopping him? He's broken every tradition and rule that he didnt like all along the way.
I really don't see why he couldn't.
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u/EvelynNyte 9h ago edited 8h ago
Nixon resigned because the Senate was turning against him and he likely was about to be impeached and convicted, which a pardon would not spare him. Part of the deal of him stepping down was that Ford would pardon him so he didn't need to try to navigate the legally frought idea of self-pardoning.
That was also pre-foxnews, which famously Ailes made because he was convinced if Republicans just had its own news network to muddy the waters constantly a scandal could never get so bad as to allow another Watergate, and he's been right so far.
Also the Judiciaries slide to a pro-neoliberal pro-corruption stance only started in the late 60s, it wouldn't fully solidify until the Reagan era so attempting to do such would have been way riskier.
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u/tommytraddles 9h ago
Nixon was going to be impeached and convicted, so he resigned. His support in the Senate collapsed within his own party.
Trump isn't even close to that, because the Right spent the last 50 years building a propaganda bubble with the sole goal of ensuring it could never happen again.
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u/starliteburnsbrite 9h ago
And electing utter and complete morons who can barely read to the Senate
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u/Poison_the_Phil 9h ago
Bad faith actors on the right like Roger Stone have literally been working to change that since Nixon left office.
It's been clear as day for years now, Trump has no intention of leaving office at the end of his term.
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u/Nub_Shaft 8h ago
There's no legal precedent for it. Meaning he could do it, but it would have to be challenged by the DOJ and the Supreme Court, both of which are in his pocket. Also, worst case scenario, he resigns on January 19th 2029, making Vance the president for one day who then could grant him a full pardon like Nixon and Ford.
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u/jasoncross00 8h ago
Nixon didn't leave to avoid arrest he resigned to avoid impeachment.
Trump isn't saying he can protect himself from impeachment, he's saying he can absolve himself of any crime.
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u/okimlom 5h ago
So he’s admitting guilty of all his crimes…
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u/kingrynex 4h ago
That's exactly what a pardon is. Whether he understands that though, is yet to be tested.
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u/ChiGuy6124 Illinois 9h ago edited 9h ago
"Systemic government corruption is already a problem in the Trump era. The signal he’s sending to his team is likely to make matters worse."
"A couple of months ago, Donald Trump appeared on a conservative radio show and said that “a lot of people” wanted to see the president pardon himself in his first term."
“I had the absolute right to do it,” he said. “Instead, I fought it through the courts and won.”
"While that wasn’t an entirely accurate summary of recent history — Trump, who was convicted of several felonies in New York, only “won” when the federal criminal cases against him ended upon his return to the White House, not because they were adjudicated in his favor — the president’s rhetoric about his “absolute right” to pardon himself stood out."
"This week, he returned to the issue Asked specifically whether he’s “seriously considering a self-pardon” before he leaves office, the president initially hedged, saying he’s done “nothing wrong,” before adding, “I’m allowed to do a self-pardon. I’m allowed to pardon. … The pardon is very powerful. I know that. They say it’s the most powerful thing a president has, the power of pardon.”
"As...Jordan Rubin explained in detail just last week, whether presidents can actually pardon themselves is a matter of some controversy. Ahead of Richard Nixon’s resignation in 1974, the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel prepared a memo concluding that presidents can’t pardon themselves, though OLC opinions are not binding on the courts, and the matter has never been tested — at least not yet.."
"On the topic of pardons, the Republican went on to say,......." “I can tell you this, I don’t want to see my people go through — because these people are lunatics on the, on the left ..."
"This came a few weeks after Trump also told Time magazine that he’s prepared to issue pardons to members of his administration."
"The president is effectively letting a small army of political appointees know that, no matter what they do as part of their duties, he’s inclined to hand them a pardon, whether or not they deserve one."
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u/gr3g0rian 9h ago
If a sitting president can pardon themselves, then they are not a president… they are a King.
Of all the fucked up things, this would be the end of this nation.
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u/here_forthe_lore 8h ago
Claiming the power to pardon yourself turns the presidency into an unchecked dictatorship and completely destroys the rule of law.
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u/DungeonCrawlerLopen 8h ago
That already happened when the Supreme Court ruled the president can break the law at their own discretion.
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u/POEness 9h ago
That's the funny part. The nation is already over. We are just slow to realize it.
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u/LeonTrollski1 9h ago
<Trump, who was convicted of several felonies in New York, only “won” when the federal criminal cases against him ended upon his return to the White House, not because they were adjudicated in his favor
How is that an explanation for what occurred? "Oh, he's President now, so we can't touch him"? 34 criminal convictions await you, Donald. They haven't gone away.
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u/Bored2001 9h ago
Yea, but that's winning for super rich people. The outcome is what matters, not the ruling.
10 million dollar fine but you made 1 billion? That's "legal", and a win in their eyes.
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u/StarPhished 7h ago
I believe he's done with the legal process of those 34 felonies. He received no punishment and will receive no punishment.
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u/Frosty_Luck2056 9h ago
I don't give a fuck what the rules were before. We're charging this mother fucking with everything we've got. Pardons be damned. Weaponizing the pardon powers will be repeated by other scum.
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u/-Nurfhurder- 8h ago
While that wasn’t an entirely accurate summary of recent history
What a remarkable understatement.
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u/gergek 9h ago
Why would a non-criminal need to pardon himself?
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u/General-Raspberry168 9h ago
When the president does it, it’s not illegal.
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u/addiktion 9h ago edited 8h ago
"Gaming the market with Iran and tariff news is now an official duty of the president, thanks SCOTUS!"
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u/Snidrogen 9h ago
Well based on the Supreme Court’s logic, if they allow Trump to self-pardon, the next admin could ignore his pardon, detain/prosecute him “illegally” and that president would have ongoing immunity and could subsequently self-pardon themselves for what they did before leaving office.
In essence, allowing him to self-pardon would not actually have an impact on the next president being able to ruin the remaining years of his life.
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u/Nephroidofdoom 8h ago
They should just do it and declare National Security, and they would be justified.
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u/mdb1023 9h ago
I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like a self pardon could backfire spectacularly. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have done it at the end of his last term?
Since pardons only cover federal charges, if Trump were to be charged by the state, couldn't his self pardon theoretically be used as an admission of guilt?
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u/glenpiercev 7h ago
Let him. I’m done with this constitution anyways. When the Left comes back into power, I say we ball.
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u/TheDesktopNinja Massachusetts 7h ago
Narrator: "The left did not ball. They just returned to the status quo and pretended the last 10 years didn't happen."
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u/ropean 8h ago
The Justice department published an opinion just before Nixon resigned, opining that a president cannot self-pardon.
“Pursuant to Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the “Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of
Impeachment,” is vested in the President. This raises the question whether the President can pardon himself. Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, it would seem that the question should be answered in the negative.”This is not a binding legal document, but I find the reasoning sound.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf
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u/StephenFish 6h ago
Even if it were a binding legal document, it wouldn't matter. Laws don't matter if there's no one to enforce them.
Even if the next DOJ is run by Democrats, they will not prosecute him.
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u/PluginAlong 8h ago
No, a pardon doesn't imply/require guilt. Biden preemptively pardoned some of representatives on the Jan 6 commission explicitly so trump couldn't go after them even though they'd likely done nothing wrong. Look at the Jan 6 people who got pardons, not all of them had been arrested or even charged with a crime related to that day but they still received a pardon. There were likely people pardoned who didn't actually break the law then but were pardoned none the less.
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u/mdb1023 8h ago
But those are all examples of someone else being pardoned.
What I'm saying is: if Trump were to pardon himself, doesn't that imply that he knows he is guilty of something he doesn't want to face charges for? Obviously there's a level of reasonable doubt if a president pardons someone else for a crime, but I feel like that's a different story if you're pardoning yourself.
I feel like there's at least an argument to be made.
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u/Just_Visiting_Town 7h ago
No, a pardon doesn't imply/require guilt
This is not 100% accurate. There have been some courts that have said that a pardon implys guilt.
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u/Vinterblot 8h ago
Good news: You made it clear that there are no rules, no guardrails, no decorum. Even the self-pardon itself is prove of that. So the democratic nominee should absolutely run with the promise to ignore your piece of paper and persecute you anyway. It's what you would've wanted, after all.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Canada 8h ago
If there’s ever another Dem majority, they should join the International Criminal Court and hand him over.
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u/RealHooman2187 9h ago
I know there’s endless amounts of controversies and reasons Trump should be removed/never been elected. But sometimes he’ll say or do something that still makes me sit back in awe of how crazy this all is. A sitting US President telling people he wants to pardon himself is truly wild. Whats even more wild is this is just one of like 15 crazy things in just the last 24 hours.
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u/BlargerJarger 3h ago
Pardon’s self, leaves White House, immediately arrested for being in possession of stolen goods.
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u/christopherbair 6h ago
Article II, Section 2: "...and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
So he cannot pardon himself from impeachment and removal. And if he is impeached and removed, he can be charged for any acts that continue since his "self-pardon." That is, if he has stolen classified intel again, and he STILL possesses it, it's hard to argue that he pardoned himself from keeping the classified intel he can't have since it continues to happen past the pardon.
But any president who thinks he needs to pardon himself probably shouldn't have the ability to pardon anyone. Just a thought I have...
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u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 6h ago
He can definitely pardon his staff and cabinet heads. Whether he can pardon himself is probably not, but since it hasn't been done it'll go to court.
Who he isn't going to pardon is everyone working in the federal government who implemented this crap.
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u/BitchesQuoteMarilyn 6h ago
Remember when Nixon, Kissinger, Brzezinski, and Cheney went to prison? Or faced charges?
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u/MisterEinc Florida 9h ago
I mean if he's allowed to ignore laws what's to stop us from just ignoring the pardon at this point?
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u/Fantastic_Prettyy 9h ago
Lol, dude’s telling us he’ll break the law and then forgive himself for it and people will still vote for him.
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u/Pour_Me_Another_ 7h ago
I mean, he told him they were stupid for clapping for him while they clapped at him for telling them they're stupid, so...
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u/mulderc 9h ago
Wouldn't he just resign a few days before his term ends and have JD pardon him?
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u/AmrokMC 9h ago
Considering how many of his pardons so far would be considered “Pay for Play” quid pro quo and will likely be overturned as such if properly reviewed, I’m not surprised he’s moving forward with this. The man violates the Constitution daily. Why wouldn’t he cause yet another Constitutional crisis?
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u/Ready_Nature 8h ago
The pardon power is pretty broad and unless staff are fraudulently signing them and Trump didn’t actually issue it they can’t be overturned. Best case scenario we get a constitutional amendment to undo some of that damage but I think too much of the country supports this for that to be realistic.
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u/AmrokMC 8h ago
The pardon power is extremely broad and a president can pardon someone for even no reason at all. However, if the pardon is the result of an illegal scheme it could possibly be challenged. It’s just another example of Trump challenging our Constitution and laws for his own fucking self interest.
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u/Wolfenlord 8h ago
Why would someone need to pardon themselves and those around them if they have done no wrong?
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u/SuperDuperDrew 9h ago
A pardon is admission of guilt. Let's say he tries to pardon himself and the Supreme Court rules against him...does that mean he admitted to a crime? Can this be used against him? At the very least, does this rise to probable cause to get a search warrant for whatever crime he pardons himself for? And if it's a blanket pardon, can the new DOJ look for whatever crime they believe he committed?
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u/P1xelHunter78 Michigan 9h ago
Trump can’t self pardon, but he can go fuck himself.
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u/Oldboymatty 9h ago edited 9h ago
Richard Nixon is looking up right now muttering, “this mother fucker.”
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u/VagabondReligion 3h ago edited 3h ago
The only good thing about Trump's antics is that he has absolutely zero control over how history portrays him. The name Trump will be synonymous with the hobbling of American hegemony for centuries. He carries with him the curse of Judas Iscariot, of Benedict Arnold, of Vidkun Quisling. His treason surpasses Ephialtes, surpasses Marcus Brutus, surpasses Philippe Pétain, surpasses the Rosenbergs. His name will live in infamy, and his children will be running from his legacy for the rest of their lives.
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u/kooeurib 9h ago
It's going to take a few generations to recover from the influence of this amount of sociopathy at the highest levels of government. What a message to send to young people
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u/r3ckless- 9h ago
i think he'll pardon his whole administration but that shouldnt stop the dems investigating EVERYTHING and making the American public fully aware of everything each one of them did.
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u/stuckanon01 8h ago
I think the need for state criminal charges is already baked in at this point. He can pardon all he wants, but the consequences are still coming
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u/steepleton 9h ago edited 9h ago
Could a subsequent president just use an executive order to put his arse in prison?
I suppose it’s that or the actually legal seal team 6 option
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u/starliteburnsbrite 9h ago
Pre-emptive pardons are a ridiculous interpretation of the Constitution. The document itself is pretty bad with shit like this. It's all Calvinball.
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u/Fit-Significance-436 4h ago
He’s scheming again, thinking about the impact of his crimes while in office.
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u/technicallynotlying 9h ago
He can't pardon himself from impeachment and removal. That's the one exception in the Constitution to the pardon power.
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u/homebrew_1 9h ago
Time to amend the constitution and remove the pardon ability or put in guardrails.
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u/AdmiralSnackbar816 9h ago
Feels like a lot of states can still charge most of these nitwits where a federal pardon won’t help.
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u/uniklyqualifd 8h ago
All trump's pardons should be thrown out, because he sold pardons and it won't be hard to prove it.
Then get rid of Presidential pardons.
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u/Wide-Chemistry-8078 7h ago
I thought president's have immunity, why does he need a pardon?
What crimes is he admitting to?
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u/ElectricalGuidance79 9h ago
Right. But then you are also admitting you are guilty. You only need to pardon people who are guilty. That's the part that confuses me.
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u/SereneOrbit 9h ago
If he does, he makes himself innocent permanantly in the primary justice system and gives himself the death penalty in the people's justice system.
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u/MacduffFifesNo1Thane 6h ago
Self-pardons don’t work for sins, they don’t work for political office.
You can’t pardon, peg, or tickle yourself. You need the eternal source.
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u/NoodlesSpicyHot 9h ago
It doesn't really matter, since the crimes happened in so many places; pardons don't apply to state crimes under state jurisdiction. He just continues to panic and blabber. Just a matter of time at this point.
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u/3Quondam6extanT9 9h ago
I'm allowed to punch you in the face. My mommy said so. I can do whatever I want cause I'm rich and you're just a stupid peasant.
🙄
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u/WangoTheWonderDonkey 9h ago edited 9h ago
If he can do a self-pardon, then the next POTUS should be able to do an un-pardon. As long as we're making shit up on-the-fly. A dangerous precedent but we have to get these fuckers. We're not a real country until we formally prosecute all Trump corruption. Maybe it takes a 2/3 Senate vote to un-pardon. Even If he dies before we get his head in the noose, at least keep it swinging in front of his face.
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u/mattjf22 California 9h ago
Sounds like something a criminal would say. The whole Republican party is propping up a criminal so the rich can get richer.
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u/GregTheIntelectual 8h ago
I'm not from the US but you're able to pardon yourself then arent you essentially emperor? Whats stopping you from just like assasinating rivals or stuff like that and then pardoning yourself and anyone involved.
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u/Bingo_and_Butt_Stuff 8h ago
What a normal thing for a non-criminal to say
But let's be real, he will be dead before there is a mechanism or court that would uphold any sort of consequences.
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u/Voluptulouis 9h ago
The "Supreme" Court already ruled that he is basically untouchable and can just do whatever the fuck he wants. I don't know what he's worried about.
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u/windwatcher01 9h ago
Now we can expect something nonesensical on Truth Social that won't have any legit legal reasoning behind it, but will feature lots of Unnecessary Capital Letters.
Thank You For Your Attention To This Matter!
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u/DigitalCrayfish 8h ago
Based on the Scotus judgment, a new president can kidnap and lock him away, and can’t be punished. Woopsie Daisy.
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u/KyleMorgenVal 8h ago
Basically openly admitting he's a dictator, unless the Gov and the People actually do something to stop him.
Vote.
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u/DickFagballson 8h ago edited 8h ago
Section 3 of 14A says his entire second term is illegitimate. He incited a domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol building on 1/6/21. Insurrectionists are forbidden from holding office. He along with his whole admin and the supreme court justices that allowed him to run should be arrested and prosecuted if the pendulum swings back.
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u/TabbyOverlord 7h ago
Can't be pardoned unless you have been convicted of something. If you have been convicted of 'high crimes and misdemeanours' and the sanction is removal from office, you aren't in a position to pardon anyone.
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u/TheTresStateArea 7h ago
If trump can self pardon, then future presidents can rescind a pardon.
I can make up rules too.
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u/Ciubowski 6h ago
If someone inocent starts talking in terms like “i am going to find ways to exonerate myself from guilt”…. Well…
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u/TheRealBlueJade 6h ago
He acts like a child playing tag where he makes up the rules as he goes along. We are better than this. We have to be better than this. trump is not the best of us.
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u/MainImplement1188 2h ago
So a president can knowingly and deliberately commit all kinds of crimes and then just pardon himself? lol!
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