Oregon school shooter identified as 16-year-old whose mother purchased the gun he used.

[u/ExtremeCrisp1]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-school-shooter-identified-16-year-old-john-griffin-ii-whose-mot-rcna603908

[u/LooseSeal88]

I just assumed he took his mother's gun, but no, she gave it to him for his birthday two months before this incident. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[u/AsherTheFrost → u/LooseSeal88]

It's insane how often this is the case. "Our son is a loner who's always online and wants a gun, we should get him one for his birthday, what could possibly go wrong?" It's why I support prosecuting the parents as accessories

[u/Longjumping_Syrup423 → u/AsherTheFrost]

The sandy hook shooter specifically pisses me off because he was in such a bad headspace (I don’t know what his diagnosis’ were so I don’t want to speculate there) that his mom couldn’t even go in his room. He had all of his windows taped up, she would leave his meals at his bedroom door and he wouldn’t leave the room much at all. Yet, the thing they did the most together was go to the gun range and he had full access to her gun safe armed with multiple guns!! Fucking crazy.

[u/N0r3m0rse → u/Longjumping_Syrup423]

And he killed her with those guns. She may have thought that this was the only thing that got him in a semi normal headspace, got him outside. She probably didn't want to believe or even entertain the thought that her son was an actual demon.

[u/Headphones4Cicadas → u/N0r3m0rse]

I think most of the evidence points to her being entirely aware of the path her son was going down. At first she got him help that pointed to her knowing this was bad and the professionals said it was bad but then she withdrew it all.

[u/j_turn2000 → u/Headphones4Cicadas]

his mother was most definitely aware that adam was profoundly unwell, at the very east. she refused a mental evaluation for adam at age 13 when urged to do so. when he had a complete work up done by a psychiatrist at yale the next year (at his fathers urging) they noted that his mental health was rapidly declining and he was suffering from several severe social disabilities. his mom was told he needed intensive therapy but she later pulled him out of it. she actually ended up further isolating him by pulling him out of school shortly afterwards.

[u/TwoBionicknees → u/Headphones4Cicadas]

she had a gun safe full of guns before the kid got bad. 99% chance the help she got they told her remove the fucking guns from the house and she decide "take my guns, fucking liberals, we'll never see a therapist again...." and that was the end of it.

If you don't get that guns are less important than your kids mental health... well you kind deserve what you get, just no one else deserved what they got for making such a disgusting, callous, evil decision.

[u/Umutuku → u/N0r3m0rse]

If a gun is the only thing that gets you in a semi normal headspace then the gun isn't getting you in a semi normal headspace.

[u/randomcatinfo → u/Longjumping_Syrup423]

Her having a vast arsenal, while her kid was so obviously messed up, and then TRAINING him to shoot was so utterly nuts.

[u/Snuffy1717 → u/AsherTheFrost]

Except AI is gonna be like “What a caring and compassionate parent you are — Great work! Would you like me to recommend some of the best beginner firearms for online loners?”

[u/CelestialFury → u/Snuffy1717]

After the school shooting: You're absolutely right for calling me out. I should not have recommended those forearms to an unstable teenager.

[u/NoMorePorridge1 → u/Snuffy1717]

"It looks like fully automatic weapons are not legal in your state. Would you like information about gun modifications that can make your semi-automatic gun fire like a fully automatic gun?"

[u/Kankunation → u/LooseSeal88]

The idea of gifting a child a gun to hold onto is just insane to me. Like, even if you are okay with guns. You like to go hunting or want to teach them self defense at a range, they shouldn't have unfettered access to a firearm. That shit should be locked up tight in a gun safe when not being used for its intended purpose.

Buy gun for yourself. Let them hold it, clean it, fire it in the appropriate setting. Everything neccessary to let them learn proper safety. Don't let them just have it.

[u/TonyNickels → u/Kankunation]

I was only allowed to keep my bb gun on my grandparent's farm so I'd never have it around my friends or when my parents weren't there. A bb gun. This was long before Columbine.

[u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy → u/TonyNickels]

Same. My grandfather was an avid hunter, NRA member, had lots of firearms, and taught us how to shoot as kids when we were in the backwoods of Maine. BUT he was adamant that we were NEVER to touch a firearm without a trusted adult’s supervision. My younger brother inherited part of my grandfather’s collection, and he is now teaching my sons’s about gun safety.

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy]

Part of it is that you don't hear often about people like your Grandfather, and I hold onto my hope that 99% of gun owners are like your grandfather, where they will use it responsibly and make sure anyone they teach how to use them will teach them the safety of it.

We only hear about cases like this when some jackass decides to not do that.

[u/OpheliaRainGalaxy → u/TrainDestroyer]

We don't always hear about the fuckups either.

I found my dad's gun while exploring with a friend as a preschooler. Luckily we had the sense not to play with it once we realized what it was, so didn't make the news. But my parents didn't know I knew until I said something terrible at daycare.

Dad never did learn responsible behavior. Got in a drunken fight with an angry owl and almost shot off his own toe.

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

That too! We don't hear about the minor fuckups and the major corrections either. Because "Kid finds gun and doesn't play with it" Is once again not a story in the way "Kid finds gun accidentally shoots parent" is.

It 100% cuts both ways, I just feel personally (Sadly I have no proof) it leans more towards "Gun is safely handled its entire life and nothing happens that shouldn't happen" than guns being not properly secured and used for shit like this.

[u/Darnbeasties → u/TonyNickels]

We played with BB guns unsupervised ..almost hit a neighbour’s grandma once. Kids are dumb and stupid. We were stupid . Kids cannot be given guns as toys with no direct supervision.

[u/Donnicton → u/TonyNickels]

You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

[u/brightlocks → u/Kankunation]

Yup. One of my friends is a teacher and one of her students died when the kid and her friends used an unsecured gun to make a Tik Tok video. This was a case of peer pressure and kids doing dumb stuff for likes. Kids absolutely cannot be allowed to “get” at the guns.

[u/SpeakerCareless → u/brightlocks]

I had to take my daughter to the funeral of her classmate who died in a gun accident when another kid she was with found her stepdad’s handgun in the nightstand and accidentally shot her in the face. They were 11.

The parents thought the kids were old enough to “know better”

[u/LazerWeazel → u/Kankunation]

My dad bought me a gun at 13. I was never allowed to touch it unless I was with him and it had a trigger lock on at all other times.

This woman is fucking stupid and also (imo) criminally liable.

[u/--TheCity-- → u/Kankunation]

Agreed.. I am someone who was iresponsibly given a gun as a child. It's a crazy story but my mother ended up shooting herself with it and gave it back to me so I still had the gun for many years.

It's always reminds me of a story told in a book The People Of The Lie. A boy had a brother who committed suicide after the suicide the parents gave the gun to the surviving son. It was an example of evil parents. 

[u/gunsforevery1 → u/Kankunation]

There’s no way my kids have access to any of my firearms or “theirs”.

The mother needs to be charged with all the murders and attempted murders.

[u/guynamedjames → u/Kankunation]

It's a natural conclusion from the "my house is under siege and I need to defend it!" mentality that many gun owners have. When they leave your teenager alone they think "How would the teenager defend themselves and the house without access to a gun? It's a crazy idea to leave them home alone defenseless!"

Of course these are the gun owners who ignore the fact that the gun in their house is MUCH more dangerous to them/their family than guns outside their house.

[u/Agreeable-Network485 → u/Kankunation]

My dad bought "me" (read: himself, with the intent to give it to me eventually) a .22 Magnum rifle when I was 14. We had enough land that I could go shoot it off the back deck whenever I wanted but I didn't even know where the guns were stored in the house much less had access to open them until I was 18. All the guns were action-locked in a trunk with two combination locks on it inside another cabinet that had a key lock on it, and the ammunition for all of them was kept in a different cabinet, also locked.

I don't have kids and never will, but to this day I keep my firearms locked away in a similar setup (in a safe, in individual cases, with each case luggage locked and each firearm action-locked as well) and couldn't imagine any other way of doing it.

[u/scifibookwyrm → u/Agreeable-Network485]

Yeah my dad bought me a .22 bolt action when I was 12. I’m 43 and it’s in my possession now, but the rifle was locked away unless he was supervising me cleaning it or we were at the range.

It was “mine,” but I never held possession of it cause I was a stupid 12 year old lol.

[u/TrainDestroyer → u/scifibookwyrm]

Which is how parents who want to give their child a gun should do it.

When the kid moves to their own place let them have unfettered access to it, until then if the kid wants it, go through the parent because at least then there's a two-step process that can potentially prevent shit like this from happening

[u/dancingbananas25 → u/Kankunation]

That's how I feel as well. Gun safety and handling can be a valuable skill to learn, but children and teens shouldn't be allowed unfettered access

[u/sharkbait_oohaha → u/Kankunation]

Right like what the fuck. I'm a gun owner. I will buy guns for my kids to use under my careful supervision. They will not be their guns. They will be mine, and they will be locked up. My wife doesn't even know my safe code. Once my kids are adults, if they decide they want them, sure, I'll give them to them. They'll have extensive safety and proficiency training before that ever happens though.

[u/PlantPotStew → u/sharkbait_oohaha]

100%.

Took classes in children's behavioral science (Among others, don't remember which course it was in specifically, psychology in general.)

They had a video with a test showing kids with guns. Simple one, in a backpack a (fake) gun was just lying there and visible.

They left the kids in groups of 5, give or take. Every kid would stand around it (I'd say they were 1st graders or older? Hip height maybe? It's hard to tell and too long ago to remember). They'd wiggle awkwardly like they know they're not supposed to be near it.

They'd say they should call someone, but don't. They'd say they shouldn't touch it, most didn't. A few poked it and giggled. One picked it up and almost fired the gun (Empty, fake, but still... the kids around did sort of gasp and walk a little bit away but not run or hide from it. Not even go out of line of sight of the gun.). Even the ones who KNEW gun safety and were specifically taught it, AT MOST, would only say to the others what they shouldn't be doing (Don't touch, we should get help...) but not actually enact the plan.

This was done after one of the kids brought a real gun into their backpack by mistake a few weeks ago, iirc. But anyway, video still stuck with me... training doesn't really help to kids that young. Middle schoolers just don't really get it. They know it's bad, or scary, but if anything that tends to get most of them stuck in place, especially if there's a group of them who also aren't moving or doing anything. Parents really overestimate just how much their lessons will stick when their kid has literally no adults nearby and instead just have a gun and maybe some confused friends.

[u/strugglz → u/Kankunation]

Reminder that late teens early 20s is peak time for emotional instability and psychological distress. Probably the last age group that should have deadly weapons.

[u/the_gubna → u/Kankunation]

The practice you describe is what every single person I grew up with would describe as being “gifted” a gun as a minor.

[u/Kankunation → u/the_gubna]

And apparently it isn't the practice that this mother practiced. Hence why I call it insane.

[u/bidoville → u/Kankunation]

Literally what my dad did for me growing up.

[u/chrysothronos → u/LooseSeal88]

this happened in ga too 🙃

[u/mrdominoe → u/chrysothronos]

And Michigan...

[u/f0rged → u/mrdominoe]

And both parents were sentenced to 10-15 years in prison, which is a laughable sentence for 4 counts of manslaughter, involuntary or not.

[u/reallytrulytrue → u/chrysothronos]

And he is deservedly in jail.

[u/dkviper11 → u/LooseSeal88]

A 3 year old took his parents gun into daycare last week in Michigan. Dad is a cop! He didn’t take the service weapon but that tells me all I need to know about storage in that home. Cops are nearly always specifically exempted from gun control bills.

[u/mrdominoe → u/dkviper11]

Cops are nearly always specifically exempted from gun control bills.

How else are they supposed to stop their wives from leaving their abusive asses?

[u/Silver-Education-860 → u/LooseSeal88]

okay prosecute the mom

[u/LiquidArbok → u/LooseSeal88]

Lock her up

[u/juanzy → u/LooseSeal88]

Even if he took his mother's gun, that's still irresponsible ownership to have it accessible to a minor in the house.

[u/Low_Kale1642 → u/LooseSeal88]

There had to be warning signs well before this incident. These parents should be criminally charged with negligence at the very least

[u/aradraugfea → u/LooseSeal88]

There is a religious movement in the United States that seems to view guns as a replacement for therapy. Oh, kid’s got issues? But him the holy totem of Firearm, teach him the rituals of its use, and all his behavioral issues will disappear.

It’s the more fucked up version of why all my bullies in the 90s knew TaeKwonDo, and at least martial arts teaches you to take a hit without flipping the fuck out.

[u/lightmgl → u/[deleted]]

This is definitely one of those scenarios where the mother should be held to at least 3rd degree murder or higher if you argue that she illegally transferred a purchased firearm to a minor or was so negligent that the neglicence enabled the murder.

This applies to drug induced murders all the time why doesn't it apply to guns so often?

[u/brandt-money → u/[deleted]]

I originally found out that my little handgun safe can be unlocked if you simply bang on the top of the safe a few times with your fist while you turn the knob. 🤷‍♂️

[u/DirtyPiss → u/[deleted]]

While I doubt it is the case, just wanted to say that I appreciate you’re the type of person wanting all the facts first and willing to entertain reasons why someone might not be guilty. That’s a great (and fleeting) perspective to see in modern discourse these days

[u/Humble-Plankton2217]

Oregon needs to treat this the same way Michigan did. Charge the parents.

[u/fancywinky → u/Humble-Plankton2217]

And GA. Father was convicted.

[u/americanextreme → u/Humble-Plankton2217]

The states have different laws, but Criminally Negligent Manslaughter is an Oregon Charge that might describe a crime committed here, if the mother could have known about violent tendencies or crisis.

[u/soda_cookie → u/americanextreme]

Since it was a long gun, according to Oregon 166.470(3) if the mother transferred the firearm to her son with the idea he was going to use it for hunting, target practice, or other lawful purpose, she may be in the clear. To your point, if she had knowledge he was troubled beforehand, different story, she should have taken the firearm away.

[u/a_little_peryton → u/soda_cookie]

If the kid lied, said he was going to go target practicing, and then murdered kids that would be one thing, but if the mother bought her teen a gun and then allowed him unfettered access to it, she should 100% be held responsible for those murders. Teens are hormonal and lack the impulse control to have unlimited access to firearms, and thats not even counting those who are mentally ill or who fall into the racist, sexist or homophobic incel mindset that so many of these school shooters follow

[u/elorend → u/a_little_peryton]

Sadly in Oregon she has the right to sign over ownership of a “long gun” to a minor and give him access to the safe and unsupervised use of she does that. Only potential criminal issue if he does something awful with it in that case is if she should have known better (predicted how he might use it vs for hunting or target practice). Even if she didn’t sign over ownership, and “just” left it accessible, penalties for not locking up guns here are only civil. For any criminal charges, the state will still have to prove she should have know the risk if she left it out. Whereas in CA, a parent is considered criminally liable if a minor accesses the gun bc the parent didn’t secure it properly and it’s a felony if they then hurt themselves or someone else with it. Oregon is not as good on all this as people assume. So many loopholes.

[u/cooking2recovery → u/elorend]

Yeah people think of Oregon as some sort of blue mini-California but it’s actually one of the most Libertarian states there is. People literally have bumper stickers that say “Ore-gun-ian”. Oregon has very lax gun laws compared to what people would assume from the social programs.

[u/Notwerk]

"I don't know, my kid is acting withdrawn and strange. He mumbles to himself about the purity of cleansing flames. His teachers say he's dangerous. I'm at wit's end. I don't know what to do. Think I should buy him a gun? That'll help, right?"

-Every parent of a school shooter

[u/NonFungibleTulip → u/Notwerk]

"Sure, he's constantly trying to set his siblings on fire, and insists on wearing a poncho made out of stray cats, but he's just creative!"

all kidding aside, we need to make Warren Zevon's "Excitable Boy" the new US anthem...

[u/reverse_the_loop → u/Notwerk]

Extend this to 'bullying' as well. Sort of over the kid was picked on sympathy. I detest real bullying. But how many times is it we dont want to hang out with or play with or be around PERSON A because he is the type of person that would murder us all. Good on kids for having instincts and not wanting to associate with someone dangerous and demented.

Its pretty rare when there are not giant red flags at home, giant red flags among the school admin, and giant red flags around the classmates.

[u/ListenLady58]

Why are there so many dumbfuck parents buying literal fucking guns for their obviously mentally ill children?

[u/Michelanvalo → u/ListenLady58]

The Sandy Hook shooter's mother thought a good way to bond with her disturbed son was to go shooting with him. The first person he killed with her guns was her.

[u/unsolicited_thought → u/Michelanvalo]

This is true of Kip Kinkel (Thurston shooter) as well. He killed his parents first with the gun they bought him, on the recommendation of his therapist.

[u/soyel_cerdo → u/unsolicited_thought]

What kind of fucking imbecile therapist would recommend a gun to someone with mental health issues? TF!

[u/Zech08 → u/soyel_cerdo]

Find an activity to bond over...

The caveat... that has the hallmarks of bonding, instruction, tine.... oh and doesnt have the problematic issue of dangerous escalation relative to the situation (mentally ill).

bonding over HMEs would probably be just as effective... at least the stupidity would be very loud right away.

[u/ImpressionDepression → u/ListenLady58]

dumbfuck parents

I mean you kinda answered your own question lol. Dumb people don't know they're doing a stupid thing because they're not smart enough to know the difference.

[u/funkhero → u/ListenLady58]

Because America is full of dumbfucks.

Sure, other countries are, too, but American Exceptionalism prevents most Americans from realizing just how dumb their country is. Even today, after all Trump's shit.

[u/zzazzzz → u/ListenLady58]

why the fuck are ppl buying any guns for children?

[u/Minute_Band_3256 → u/[deleted]]

It should be treated as if she pulled the trigger too. I have no problem with her getting life. She killed three kids.

[u/3nl → u/Minute_Band_3256]

I say this as a responsible gun owner and parent: if you fail to securely lock up your weapon and it's taken by a child it should be mandatory minimum of 10 years and if they use it to kill someone, felony murder. Your gun should either be on your person or secured at all times, no exceptions. Owning a firearm is a right, but it's also a responsibility and your actions have consequences.

If there is a single gun law that could be passed today that would actually put a dent into children shooting up schools it would be passing a law mandating securing firearms. We have more firearms than people in this country so it's not like they are going to go away - but passing this kind of law and actually enforcing the laws we have would make a real difference.

[u/Alwayssunnyinarizona → u/3nl]

Trouble is, this was a gun that was purchased and given to him. It wasn't "taken". He was responsible for its security; she was responsible for him, or I should say "irresponsible." She should be charged, and I expect she will be.

[u/BlueCX17 → u/Alwayssunnyinarizona]

Yes, it wasn't his sole responsibility as a 16 year old to make sure it was Secure. Her not doing her due diligence as the parent who bought the firearm, to make sure he is following through keeping it secured and being responsible, that's also on her.

[u/3nl → u/Alwayssunnyinarizona]

People "buy" their children guns all the time when they are 12-14 to learn to shoot on. Even where I grew up in NJ which is extremely strict about guns, there were more than a few kids that "owned" a bolt action .22 to learn on. Not a single one had access to it anywhere except while out learning with a parent. Any time a minor is found with a firearm (and that happens orders of magnitude more than them actually using it) an adult should go to jail.

In Oregon, that is the law - but it's only a misdemeanor at worst (a civil infraction in most cases - a literal ticket) so assuming they even enforce the law, it's a slap on the wrist at most. If it were a felony with a harsh mandatory minimum and adults were required to sign a notice about it when purchasing a firearm (like they have to do for other laws in some states) and were actually enforced, they might take it more seriously.

Edit: There are always going to be horrible parents who do stuff like this and they belong in jail with their child assuming they aren't already dead like here.

[u/Suzuki_Foster → u/Minute_Band_3256]

She directly caused the deaths of those people. She should be charged with murder.

[u/Whosebert → u/Minute_Band_3256]

4, her own as well, and a teacher.

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/[deleted]]

She’ll probably be a featured speaker at next year’s RNC

[u/jogam]

Mom needs to go to prison. Purchasing a gun for her minor child is the reason why three children and one teacher are dead.

[u/adsfew → u/jogam]

And why a number of young children are going to be traumatized after this

[u/sowhat4 → u/jogam]

Four children. Her son is dead, too.

[u/smallbatchb]

I don’t understand this shit.

I grew up in a gun friendly family but had I been given one at 16 I absolutely would not have had unsupervised access to it at all.

[u/icemanpallmall → u/smallbatchb]

I grew up deeeeep in the woods in Alabama and have never once thought about using any gun to go out and shoot a bunch of kids.

What we have is a system perpetuated by us vs them politics, constant dismantling of healthcare (for mental health especially), and a bunch of fucking cowards too afraid to say no the corporate money to enact sensible gun legislation. This shit ass country deserves to fail.

[u/Mor_Padraig → u/icemanpallmall]

Yep.

The ' us v them ', and not just bots n trolls, were out in force within 5 minutes of the story.

And pretty much dragged every, single divisive, contentious, hateful rhetoric into the narrative.

With an astonishing lack of ' Wow, what a tragedy ' anywhere.

[u/Tex_Was_Here → u/[deleted]]

I'm all for 2A, but this is the shit that really needs to be focused on along with mental health. I can't stand that guns can be given out as gifts to those who are underage. It's another big problem that I would love to see cracked down on.

Growing up in the South, I saw it happen with a lot of my friends. They would be gifted guns by family members without any identification, classes, or training.

I have no problem with our country having guns, but our gun culture is fucking terrible. Mental health plays a big part in that.

[u/sinaloa555]

I was a kid with all the wrong things going on, I was bullied at school, my parents had guns which were not locked up and were loaded, and I had like zero adult supervision, and had mental health issues. This was in the late 70’s early 80’s, and ms. I don’t like mondays had already happened. The thought of killing my bullies never crossed my mind. Idk where I’m going with this but parents shouldn’t give kids with issues fire arms for gifts.

[u/AstraCraftPurple → u/sinaloa555]

The sadder part, both with the current case and the Mondays teen is they both picked on younger children. Sure, they could have been bullied but chose to take it out on those weaker than themselves. Not that there’s ever a good place to take this kind of anger out on, but they’re taking it out on those who had nothing to do with their problems. I hear you on having things go wrong and restraining yourself. I was lucky my student life was before Columbine. Active shooter drills weren’t a thing, back then it was fire or hiding under your desk in case of nuclear bombs (lol!) Those felt so far fetched, where shootings are very realistic.

[u/True-Literature-6766 → u/sinaloa555]

You also didn’t have the internet in your pocket and a gamut of social media cesspools to sink into

[u/scienceismybff]

What kind of insane person purchases a gun for their troubled teen or had it available for use at all for them? Lock up the damn guns and make it impossible for them to access. It’s not that hard.

[u/Dynako]

This stupid mother belongs behind bars, I hope they throw the book at her. Literally too

[u/xman_2k2 → u/Dynako]

Yes. Life in prison is the least she should get it. Three kids died because of her dumb ass

[u/piltonpfizerwallace]

When my parents bought me a gun, they kept the gun stored in a locked safe that I did not have access to. I would have had to break into the safe or somehow find the code.

[u/713elh → u/piltonpfizerwallace]

Everyone who’s pro 2A should be raising hell for how insanely relaxed people are with gun storage

[u/ElefanteAmor]

Why schools? What makes people want to go and do this to anyone, let alone kids is beyond my comprehension. I do not get it.

[u/Impressive-Weird-908 → u/ElefanteAmor]

Attention.

These guys have decided they are going to die. They feel some kind of resentment to the world and feel that committing some kind of heinous act is the best way to get payback for the wrongs they feel have been done to them. Dead kids makes the front page of the news every single time.

[u/Unequivocally_Maybe → u/ElefanteAmor]

Especially elementary schools. The teens who commit mass shootings at their own high schools makes at least some sense. Teens committing acts of violence at primary schools and adults at any schools doesn't make any sense to me. It's cowardice and cruelty without reason.

[u/mattattack007 → u/Unequivocally_Maybe]

Theyre committing suicide by cop and its often fueled by anger against the world and the people that have wronged them. There's just a lot of societal hate going around so people end up angry at the whole world. So they figure if theyre going to die I might as well take my revenge on the world by causing the most pain and suffering I can.

[u/wileydmt123 → u/Unequivocally_Maybe]

I think many see harming kids as the ultimate pay back. Even in politics, its "all about saving the children" and when you're 16 yrs old you likely no longer think of yourself as a child so you go to hit society where it hurts most (or at lest that's what you believe)

[u/SINISTERZL1 → u/wileydmt123]

As messed up as it is, this right here.

[u/SchlopFlopper → u/Unequivocally_Maybe]

Elementary Schools illicit the most visceral reactions, which is perfect for someone wanting to unleash their fucked up wrath while also garnering the most attention for themselves. I can only imagine that being the case for a kid shooting up a school they don’t go to.

[u/Jamjams2016 → u/ElefanteAmor]

Soft targets, no weapons allowed, minimal security

[u/Lynchy- → u/Jamjams2016]

I think it's more about the greater emotional damage it does to the populace. People that do this want to inflict the most horrible pain they can and what's worse than massacring elementary school kids.

[u/StableManticorePilot → u/Lynchy-]

I think this is the heart of it. These people want to be seen by the world, they want their actions, their anger or discontent known and felt by everyone. They want maximal emotional impact.

[u/ConfusedInKalamazoo → u/Jamjams2016]

They just want to shock people by doing something horrible.

[u/scadole]

I mean, Sandy Hook was a real indicator of people not giving a shit.

[u/HobbesNJ → u/scadole]

When Sandy Hook happened and not a single change was made as a result, I knew there would never be a change to the gun culture here in the U.S..

If adorable tiny kids being slaughtered in their school isn't enough, then nothing will be.

[u/Briefcasefullofbees → u/scadole]

This country can be summed up with one sentence. "The sounds of screaming children has been removed."

[u/ZanthrinGamer]

behind half these school shootings are really shitty parents.

[u/Bruce_Hodson → u/ZanthrinGamer]

Only half? I’d wager way higher depending on the definition of “shitty parent(s)”.

[u/AThriftyGamer → u/ZanthrinGamer]

It's likely behind all of them. I can't think of one instance where the parents truly had zero culpability for the actions of their child.

[u/Illustrious_Tear7108 → u/ZanthrinGamer]

One of my friends is originally from Littleton, Colorado. When Columbine came up (which he said it always inevitably does), his experience with those who were from the same area was exactly this - shitty parents and parenting.

[u/Black_Otter]

“Maybe this gun will help my child chill out” - parent

[u/ironnmetal]

Because nothing says responsible gun ownership like handing one over to an emotionally unstable person; ie, a teen.

[u/Grouchy-Click-2507]

Ok, if we had any sense, we would hold the mother accountable for the murders and throw her in jail, but I doubt we have the willpower even for that. It seems like almost every one of these shootings involves a parent buying guns for their underage child.

[u/lucerndia → u/Grouchy-Click-2507]

parents have been getting charged more often in the last couple years

[u/AssassinAragorn → u/lucerndia]

I legitimately wonder if that'll be what starts changing things. If parents are held legally accountable, they might think twice about giving their psychotic kid a gun. It would be peak America if the only thing that stopped a bad guy with a gun was a lawyer.

[u/Whaty0urname → u/AssassinAragorn]

There are soooo many things we can do without infringing upon our 2A zealots.

For instance, purchase of a gun requires safety training and purchase of a safe or trigger lock system.

[u/KeyCold7216 → u/Grouchy-Click-2507]

As a gun owner, its insane to me that anyone would ever buy a gun to gift to their kids to do whatever they want with. I understand buying a gun for them to take them out with you for hunting or recreational shooting, but it should be locked up if you aren't doing that. Kids should never have open access to firearms.

[u/Beanbeannn → u/Grouchy-Click-2507]

No, theres legal precedent now. We've started seeing the parents of shooters get prosecuted for this. She was very irresponsible and will likely be found guilty for something

[u/Mr-Bobert → u/Grouchy-Click-2507]

In Georgia a father was held responsible for his son’s mass shooting. I expect something similar to happen here

[u/KardelSharpeyes]

Victims were 5, 8 and 11. What a sick fuck.

[u/Groovychick1978]

Teenagers are stressed out, hormonal, emotional, and impulsive BY DEFINITION! 

Why buy them a firearm? 

[u/Boatyyo]

why do these fuckers go to elementary schools? why little kids?

[u/WestleyThe → u/Boatyyo]

Because they are cowards who want easy targets

[u/SgtVinceCarter → u/Boatyyo]

Because if they tried that at a Marine Recon training camp they would be dismantled instantly. They go where they know resistance is minimal.

[u/Jazzlike_Climate4189 → u/Boatyyo]

He went back to the same special needs classroom where he was formerly a student.

[u/Darthmullet]

So she gets charged with murder, right?

[u/lyndseymariee]

Arrest the parents. If parents can be arrested for their child’s truancy then they can be arrested for buying their child a weapon whose only purpose is to kill and maim when said child uses it to kill and maim.

[u/Farking_Bastage]

Mother’s ass needs to go to jail.

[u/hhhisthegame]

I 100% agree that we need gun control, and that is a no-brainer. I don't need to argue that here because I think most of us agree and are going to say the same.

But man, besides that, we really need to study what is going on with mental health. We need to study why this is happening and what is making so many people do these insane horrible things. Why in the last ten years have we seen so much of this? We've had guns all along, but until recent years it didn't seem like they were using them for this over and over. What is wrong with people nowadays?

[u/ISmokeyTheBear → u/hhhisthegame]

Has to do with social media and echo chambers. Look at what it's doing to adults too

[u/countervalent → u/ISmokeyTheBear]

I think a large part of this that doesn't always get attention is that more and more people, especially young people, are feeling an intense loneliness that's unique to our time. Social media is a driver of that, but American society prioritizes individualism over community. People don't know their neighbors. Third spaces with no financial barriers to entry are virtually non-existent. The things that used to bring people together in communities are quickly being eroded and commoditized. So we're left with alienation, and when people feel alienated to the point of snapping, there's no real community surrounding them to offer support or early intervention.

This isn't to say things were rosy and perfect in the past - they weren't. But if our current age has a label, it's the age of loneliness.

[u/extraspicytuna → u/countervalent]

Loneliness and pointlessness.

[u/Bawmbur → u/ISmokeyTheBear]

Its not just social media. Its media in general. The propaganda being pushed out on actual "News" channels and sites is a massive issue, and until we have a system in place that holds them accountable, nothing will change. But that won't happen, because the system in place is the one using these news stations for the propaganda.

[u/Mimopotatoe → u/Bawmbur]

Exactly. The United States government was going to televise a man being shot to death. Obviously he is not innocent, but the amount of desensitization I’ve seen in my lifetime is horrific

[u/Cubey42 → u/Bawmbur]

I think the news channels can be bias, but most people especially young people don't get their worldview from them. They get it from incredibly fringe creator circles deep in these social platforms. You dig deep enough into tiktok and you can find radicalization groups talking crazy.

[u/zoidberg3000 → u/Cubey42]

You don’t even have to dig deep. There’s subs that make it to the front page that regularly support radicalization.

[u/Cute-Improvement-384 → u/ISmokeyTheBear]

but none of that stuff is US specific. Social media and echo chambers are world wide, I'm reading this post from switzerland rn. Yet the US has a comically high number of these incidents happening compared to basically any other developed nation.

[u/jalahni7 → u/ISmokeyTheBear]

Culture has to play some part, if not the main part, right? Half this country chokes up any time gun control is mentioned and they celebrate posturing (on social media), guns for sport and so many other areas of our culture with guns at the foundation.

It’s almost like people with guns look for reasons to use them while people without them avoid circumstances with guns present.

[u/JeulMartin → u/jalahni7]

As a sociologist, I am biased ('a hammer sees only nails'), but I agree wholeheartedly with both of you. Social media and echo chambers are influencing culture in a huge way. It feels like putting bacteria in a petri dish and giving it ideal procreation environments.

The cultures in many places feel rotten. There are pockets of good, too, but the rotten cultures are overpowering the positive ones in many spaces.

Intersectional analysis of this is almost too complex to imagine. lol

[u/BUSY_EATING_ASS → u/hhhisthegame]

There's a certain "I'm taking you all with me!" kind of nihilism/narcissism in America and in the American psychology that's playing out all across the stage here, from national politics to individuals. We'll continue to see more people crashing out and 'taking us all with them' in one form or another as the country continues its spiral.

Poverty and social media definitely contribute to these, but a lot of these people who do this aren't poor or without financial means (quite a few of them are at least middle class) and social media isn't just in America.

Anyone who's spent time in other countries/cultures can tell you that America has a unique brand of just not giving a fuck. Taken to its logical conclusion is a lot of what we're seeing here.

[u/ScruffMacBuff → u/hhhisthegame]

American life needs to get addressed from the ground up. We have a top down mentality much of the time, which is where ideas like gun control come from (which I still agree with).

At the same time if we created a culture where people want to hurt each other less, then gun control becomes closer to redundant.

[u/sowhat4 → u/ScruffMacBuff]

My dad, born in 1920, used to go duck hunting before school. He'd drive to school with a shotgun in his car and maybe some dead ducks. He didn't lock the car or need to, nor did he ever think to take the shotgun into the school.

I always had access to long guns when growing up, but I knew there would be absolute hell to pay if I took one without permission or even 'thought' about pointing one at a human being. It was just unthinkable. Of course, this was before social media and my formative years were before even TV was common.

I still have guns in my house. When my son was a teenager, though, I did not. They were in storage and stayed there until the brain fairy visited him, and he grew up.

[u/Enticing_Venom → u/hhhisthegame]

Research has consistently been unable to establish a strong link between serious mental illness and mass shootings.

There are far more predictive factors of mass violence than mental illness. Many of the shooters have personal grievances (anger) that become motives for shootings but it usually described as "acute" and not a feature of a mental health condition.

[u/Prudent-Pressure2146 → u/Enticing_Venom]

Also no one ever seems to know what they mean when they say we need more mental health support. It’s just this weird nebulous solution that no one would be willing to pay for anyway 

[u/Ivotedforher → u/Enticing_Venom]

So, emotions and access to firearms?

[u/Enticing_Venom → u/Ivotedforher]

Yes, in large part. It's usually a combination of several factors. There is usually a crisis or major trigger in the person's life (job losses, bankruptcy, break-up, etc), coupled with perceptions of social isolation and then radicalization. Easy access to firearms is a common feature across mass shootings, which matches with many crimes being crimes of opportunity.

[u/Killkakowski → u/hhhisthegame]

It’s the internet and social media. It’s fed to them now and the possibles of what can be seen and said are pretty much endless. It ruined young minds

[u/hotgenius → u/Killkakowski]

It's the World Wide Web. It's not the American Web. It's American gun access.

[u/Evinceo → u/hhhisthegame]

Why in the last ten years have we seen so much of this? We've had guns all along, but until recent years it didn't seem like they were using them for this over and over. What is wrong with people nowadays?

It's a contagion. We recognized the contagion for suicide so we took measures to stop the spread. Mass killings can't be covered up the same way (we can't just pretend they didn't happen and avoid reporting on them since there are additional victims) so they're the outlet for these self destructive people instead.

[u/ExpiredExasperation → u/hhhisthegame]

The general breakdown of social contracts and the idea that any of us have attainable goals to work towards?

[u/Romeo_Glacier → u/hhhisthegame]

It really isn’t a mystery. The world is burning and kids are being exposed to the shit show at a very early age. Social media has forced consumerism on them. It has also made bullying MUCH easier. In the US it is more impactful because of the lack of any guardrails.

[u/MolotovMan1263 → u/hhhisthegame]

The problem is the “punishment” (death in most cases by themselves) is unfortunately seen as worth it to these people. The bigger question is why the feel the desire to harm others on the way out in the first place.

[u/SaltySeahorses → u/hhhisthegame]

It’s the internet. These mentally ill people can go on echo chambers and feel justified for this behavior.

[u/Littleman88 → u/hhhisthegame]

But man, besides that, we really need to study what is going on with mental health. We need to study why this is happening and what is making so many people do these insane horrible things. Why in the last ten years have we seen so much of this? We've had guns all along, but until recent years it didn't seem like they were using them for this over and over. What is wrong with people nowadays?

You know, every time someone leaves a manifesto explaining their motivation, people seem to dismiss it and just call them sick, undeserving, and inhuman, armchair-psychologist up the "actual motivation", and push for greater gun control like these people couldn't effortlessly pass any sort of screening while damning the Democrats to yet another slaughter at the polls.

Society is failing to get a lid on this because society refuses to take accountability. Much easier to pretend it's entirely because the parents raised them poorly and the gun spoke devilish things into their chemically imbalanced ears.

There are probably a lot more people around us that have humored and fantasized about shooting up some place, but it's so damning to even admit to it, they never will. I would put down bets the damnation from the public would drive them more into committing to their fantasies. Even for people that have never had those thoughts, trying to discuss the topic can easily see them labeled as thinking about it or sympathizers.

So no one is properly talking about mass shootings, the default is to speak of the perpetrators like they're monsters or invading aliens so removed from humanity as to be impossible to understand, and push for a "fix" to something that wasn't a problem until relatively recently, which is essentially sweeping the problem under the rug.

[u/Ntroepy → u/Littleman88]

I feel it’s kinda similar to the rape case at Cornell where they’re so focused on the individuals (rightfully so), but largely ignoring the MUCH larger systemic rape culture strongly perpetuated by the national fraternities.

100% the individuals and local chapter should be punished, but they’re ignoring that these crimes are also a symptom of a far larger Greek life cultural problem that needs to be addressed.

But we can’t talk about shutting down the frats because all of our political leaders joined them, so attacking them is like attacking the confederacy where only the morally bankrupt are left to defend it.

[u/pokedmund → u/hhhisthegame]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

Here is an interesting law passed to prevent gun control

In a long winded way, it doesn’t stop you from researching what caused gun violence, but if your research ever leads to any attempt at any gun control, your research is invalid.

What’s crazy is that the politician who got it to pass later regretted it

[u/TrumpsBadHombres → u/hhhisthegame]

It feels there is a connection to social media deployment, which enables rapid and viral spreading of information and therefore infamy. The Colorado shooter said that he felt more valuable after his killings because he was now worth 7 (?) lives. So I think social media is related in both radicalizing and also incentivizing these actions. Americans have lived with weapons since its inceptions but to my knowledge there were no school shootings in the late 1850s.

[u/Elberik → u/hhhisthegame]

It's because people feel powerless to affect the world they live in. Commiting violence is an easy way to leave a mark that can't be ignored. It forces people to acknowledge you and the effect you've had on the world.

[u/xShooK → u/hhhisthegame]

Kids getting radicalized in far right / neo nazi groups like terrorgram is usually a factor behind most of these shootings.

[u/Toxaplume045 → u/xShooK]

Yeah this really needs to be talked about more. Teachers have been sounding the alarm for awhile with younger and younger kids spouting manosphere, incel, and extremist rhetoric. They're basically being poisoned by social media and bad actors using it to recruit younger kids into the fold. And this isn't just in the US. The US is just a prime breeding ground for it.

[u/KatersHaters → u/xShooK]

This is the correct answer and it seems very few people are aware of the scope and scale of it. Terrorgram, TCC, 764, etc. And it’s global. There’s been multiple stabbing attacks by nihilistic teenagers at schools all over Europe in recent weeks/months.

[u/TurbTastic → u/hhhisthegame]

Young people need a combination of support and opportunities. Some people get those things from their parents/family, some from society, and some from both. The people that don't get support and opportunities from anywhere are going to struggle, to say the least.

[u/After_Preference_885 → u/hhhisthegame]

Why does it only happen in the United States? 

There are people all over the world, many with mental health issues, and it only happens here.

Edit to add: "it" is near daily, sometimes twice daily mass shootings - a single incident in another country proves nothing 

[u/ohdatpoodle → u/After_Preference_885]

It's almost like we breed hate here and vote it into office or something. Weird.
(And the ones voted into office think it's a good idea for all the hateful people to have guns.)

[u/HelpfulSeaMammal → u/ohdatpoodle]

And there are a lot of guns here

[u/TeamWorkTom → u/HelpfulSeaMammal]

More guns than citizens.

[u/wisc0 → u/hhhisthegame]

social media is a sickness

[u/Uhoh_Potato → u/hhhisthegame]

I think it's as simple as we are not designed/evolved for the life's we are choosing/forced to live. We pretend to handle the stress through mass consumption of drugs, distractions and spiritual opiates.

[u/Competitive_Grape761]

Put mom in jail. These parents need to be held accountable

[u/Thewallmachine]

Can we stop buying guns for children as a gift? How about a fucking book instead!

[u/x3dfxWolfeman]

Sounds like Mom should be up for jail time

[u/GoJa_official]

Put her in prison for the rest of her life. There’s no excuse for giving a minor unfettered access to firearms. If they aren’t responsible enough to be of drinking age why give them guns?!

[u/djankylosaur]

Mothers buys gun for son's 16th birthday in August and in October he kills kids in a fucking elementary school? Lock the mom up.

[u/jyc23]

So the parents are going to be held accountable in part, too, right?

Right?

[u/BakuRetsuX]

The parent should also have some responsibility in this.  Prison time.  Dude was was a minor.  Parent bought him a gun and wasn't responsible enough to lock it properly.  Plus, she is responsible for him and should already know he had issues.  

[u/taterzlol]

Hold parents accountable for the actions of their children.

[u/TechJunk13 → u/taterzlol]

I own guns. I carry guns. I’ve seen people with bullet holes running from an active shooting while we hid. I’m firmly in your camp. Mom should be charged with at minimum manslaughter, but really should be charged as an accomplice. If you are going to buy a gun you should be accountable for it. That includes not allowing underage kids access to it which is absolutely not proper gun safety.

[u/alabamerpammer]

Maybe let's stop buying children guns.

[u/Big_Bookkeeper1678]

The mother needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

How DARE she enable him to kill children.

[u/Darnbeasties]

Time to charge all parents whose kids misuse their guns. Serious laws. ..as, there are no laws, training, or license on who can be a parent and no desire for gun control laws.

[u/Fragrant_Rock_8699]

Stop buying your kids guns!

[u/newleafkratom]

..."A teen accused of gunning down three children and a teacher at an Oregon elementary school on Thursday has been identified as John J. Griffin II, three senior law enforcement sources briefed on the investigation told NBC News.

It was not immediately clear if the 16-year-old alleged gunman had a connection to Silver Rail Elementary School in Bend, where officials said an armed bystander fatally shot the teen and interrupted the shooting spree.

Two senior law enforcement officials told NBC News that the teen’s mother purchased the long gun he used around his birthday in August...."

[u/slashinhobo1]

Basically the mom should be charged with murder and sent to prison. If you buy your kids guns you and your child should face the consequences of your action.

[u/m_ttl_ng]

Hold the parents liable for the crimes along with the teenager

[u/MTNCollections]

Want to guess who his parents voted for?

[u/aquagardener → u/MTNCollections]

Don't have to.

[u/turtlturtl → u/MTNCollections]

If the shooter was anything other than a straight Christian white man conservatives would already be frothing at the mouth to spotlight it

[u/chickens_for_laughs]

The Sandy Hook shooter was a young man who was gifted a gun by a parent, don't remember which one.

He had mental problems and his mother took him to a gun range as she thought it would improve his self esteem. His parents were divorced and his father wasn't very involved.

He shot and killed his mother before he took his gun to Sandy Hook Elementary and committed one of the worst school shootings in our history.

[u/SwollenBallsack_69]

Parents should get the same punishment as their school shooter children. It would certainly incentivize these morons to lock their guns away as they should. 

[u/PeterTheWolf76]

Charge the parent. Been hunting most of my life and if i EVER thought someone was even slightly off kilter I would never hand them a gun. Just because you CAN get someone something doesnt mean you should and as a parent you should be accountable.

[u/Feisty_Bike_9614]

They need to start prosecuting parents. Letting an unstable child get easy access to a gun is inexcusable.

[u/londonisblue22]

Why does a 16 year old even need a gun

[u/KhorneFlakesOfChaos]

And they better lock her ass up

[u/Youwannasitonmyface]

Lmao, of course. Terrible, awful mother