Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro pleads not guilty to torture indictment
https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelas-nicolas-maduro-pleads-not-guilty-to-torture-charges/a-79673496173
u/ga-co 1d ago
Cool. So we’ll be doing Saudi Arabia, Israel, Russia, and North Korea next?
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u/Harkoncito 1d ago
What about the elephant in the room?
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u/ga-co 1d ago
The US has legal jurisdiction over the US. We can do that any time we like… legally.
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u/jjplack 1d ago
So why don’t the US do it?
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u/BungeeGump 1d ago
That’s another elephant in the room. 🤣
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u/Shankurmom 10h ago
Thats an easy one. The current regime has gerrymandered and disenfranchised their way into power to take a majority in senate, congress, and the presidency dispite only having support from about 20% of the US population.
They used their propaganda machine they've been constructing since watergate to elect someone dumb enough to push their agenda and take the blame as well with the promise of unlimited power and immunity. Howerver, they didn't take into account how far he would push his own thirst for power and use their own monster against them.
Right now, they are forced to go along with his deranged agenda since he has taken full control of the judicial branch and is using it to attack anyone who's "wronged him". These republicans have been involved in so much treasonous shit over the years, that he is able to bury them if they do not comply.
He is also being blackmailed by Russia and Israel to fulfill their agendas as well which has caused waves in their own braindead base. They're now backed into a corner with the upcoming election and trying their hardest to cheat their way out of it and finish the project 2025 agenda, in hopes of avoiding accountability for their horrific crime spree.
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u/Chaiboiii 1d ago
What about all the US torturing in Guantanamo and the middle east? Just sweep it under the rug?
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u/FOURTH_DEGREE_ 1d ago
And also reporting our own to the ICC instead of strong arming ourselves above international law?
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u/mendokusei15 1d ago
And the US itself. Don't forget the US itself.
This trial should be happening in Venezuela or the ICC. This is not a Marvel movie. How in the fuck can a judge accept a trial for someone that was fcking kidnapped from another country?? Clown country.
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u/Squire_II 4h ago
Everyone knows it's a show trial. They're charging him with shit like "owning a machinegun." The guy was the leader of a country that has a standing military, so no shit he "owns a machinegun" and so on.
If this trial has a jury I hope they let him walk, even though the US government will likely kill him regardless.
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u/mendokusei15 1h ago
They can charge him with whatever they want, cause he deserves whatever they say he did, they could charge him with "eating apples" or "being named Nicolás Maduro" and I could not care less.
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u/Ajota12 14h ago
You seriously believe that Maduro would submit to trail on his own country? Delulu lol
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u/mendokusei15 14h ago
Are you trying to say that no country has even put their dictators on trial? Or just ignoring history?
Ignorant. Banana republic apologist.
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u/Ajota12 14h ago
That's just a straw man argument. I'm saying, chavista government would NEVER put Maduro on trial (for obvious reasons) and the opposition is powerless here so there was no chance of a change without external intervention
Sources: I'm Venezuelan lol
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u/mendokusei15 14h ago
So you are saying your people, Venezuelans, are unable to take down a dictatorship and judge their own criminals, unlike many other countries in South America, nevermind the world? And we just must assume you, out of all the countries, you, just can't do it for missing reasons and we should just let the entire international law system fall, crash and burn. Cause you can't, you just can't take care of your own shit. "There was just no chance, we need to just give up and present our asses".
Yeah. No. We don't have to agree to be taken down with you. We don't have to agree that giving away our asses is good. Give your ass up, with a smile if you want, not mine. And this is simply disrespectful for the people in your own country and outside that are fighting.
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u/TheRedditHike 9h ago
Cuba hasn't been able to do it, Nicaragua hasn't either, Venezuela would likely be a dictatorship for decades without intervention.
Do you have any indication that it would've happened otherwise?
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u/mendokusei15 5h ago
Oh no, two examples that are not even in South America
No, I cannot guess the future and neither can you.
What I know for sure is that whoever supports the way things were done here is supporting a massive attack against everything good we have been able to build in international law. And, again, I don't have to agree with doing that, I don't have to agree with normalizing banana republics and I don't have to like my country becoming one.
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u/TheRedditHike 4h ago
The Darien Gap doesn't suddenly create two different worlds, the examples are still applicable. The difference is semantical here.
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u/mendokusei15 4h ago
Your examples are irrelevant because nobody is saying that long dictatorships cannot exist.
I was saying long dictatorships can be taken down without a fucking invasion by a hostile country.
If you fail to understand the difference between the point I'm trying to make and the point you are trying to make, I suggest you read again.
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u/TheDreamIsEternal 5h ago
are unable to take down a dictatorship and judge their own criminals, unlike many other countries in South America
What? Only Argentina and Uruguay had trials for their dictators, the others got scott free. Hell, Pinochet was only arrested because the British intervened, and even then the Chilean government opposed it and ended with Pinochet returning to Chile, where he died a free man.
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u/mendokusei15 5h ago
All those countries took down dictatorships.
And then all those countries found their own ways to deal with what had happened.
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u/TheDreamIsEternal 5h ago
Sure, but then there other countries like Equatorial Guinea or Eritrea that have been under dictatorships for decades, half a century even, with no sign that things will change in the future.
The idea that all countries can take down their dictatorships is kinda childish. Sure, some have happy endings, but most of the time those regimes last a long time.
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u/mendokusei15 4h ago
You are missing the point. Nobody is saying it is impossible for a country to be in a long dictatorship. Examples about that are not relevant because nobody is discussing that. But people are saying it is impossible to get out of a long dictatorship without foreign, hostile and direct intervention. Therefore, the examples of when that has actually happened (plenty) are relevant. Because they show it is actually not impossible and no foreign, hostile takeover is "required".
The idea that has been pushed, that it was "needed", that there was "no other way", is very convenient for the banana republic fans. And pushes forward Operation Condor 2.0.
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u/Ajota12 2h ago
We fucking tried bro, we got SLAUGHTERED, have you heard of July 28th incident? The fiasco of the elections. We made RIOT bro, but we ended up failing. That's the harsh reality, you are too naive
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u/mendokusei15 1h ago
If you wanna say "we cannot do it any other way in Venezuela" you need to bring arguments on why Venezuela is special. Everybody else tried and failed in the process of bringing down their dictatorships, that's not special. Lots of people have died all over the world fighting for the freedom of their countries, that is not special. So what is so unique about Venezuela that means we all in Latam have to support this shit and need to agree that being fucked in the ass by Trump is good. I hope you understand you are gonna need a pretty strong argument.
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u/omegadirectory 1d ago
Sure, if you had a powerful enough military to launch an operation to capture the leaders of those nations and succeed at it.
Don't forget that the US captured Maduro this way and they were rightly condemned for brazenly violating a nation's sovereignty and breaking all diplomatic norms.
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u/Squire_II 4h ago
That just means the US can't complain when Trump and his cronies get rounded up the first time they travel outside the US once he's out of office.
(yes I'm aware that establishment Democrats are worthless idiots who would absolutely go to war to prevent a US politician from being prosecuted at the ICC)
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u/Sir_thinksalot 13h ago
Lets add Brazil (If the Bolsonaro crime family come out on top) and El Salvador while we are at it.
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u/RobutNotRobot 1d ago
A US court is not the venue that should be used for any of this shit.
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u/countafit 1d ago
How can some random country try a person for things done outside their borders? Americans are fucking WEIRD.
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u/VariationDry 23h ago
Team America: World Police
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u/BurningB1rd 17h ago
This itself isnt something special. Like in afaik in most of europa you can try a person for crimes outside its borders, if you cant extradict them. Like in germany a child molester from another country can be prosecuted if he cant be extraticted to his home country, even though he hadnt an connections to germany at the time of the crime. Like wecently we prosecuted a Syrer for having Sex slaves during bis time in Isis.
ICC is mostly for war crimes and Terrorismus, but a terrorist can still be charged by the german government and the ICC.
You need this sort of laws especially if take refugees in from countries in which you cant deport them.
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u/supervillaindsgnr 1d ago
How about we start persecuting the Bush administration for knowingly and systemically torturing.
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u/th6r6o6away 1d ago edited 1d ago
Did he probably torture people? Yeah. Should have he been kidnapped and arrested by our government? Fuck no.
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u/thejourneybegins42 1d ago
Buncha people pretty close to home need to be arrested and sent to trial, then prison.
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u/Routyrouterface 1d ago
I wonder if he tortured people like Ron DeSantis did in Guantanamo.