r/leagueoflegends • u/stylowo • 9h ago
Discussion Kog'maw AP can be a sleeper OP champ
Dawidssonek, a former pro player from Poland, is terrorising EUW soloq with AP Kog Maw for a whole season, since Dusk and Dawn was introduced.
Recently, he reached GM 1776 LP with Kog, playing him jg only. He is #1, #2 and #9 on this list.
This guy in general is cracked playing off meta picks, he was known for being also #1 on Kayle, Kassadin and Nasus, making also Nasus JG a viable pick in Chall elo.
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u/Leevala 8h ago
I hope SoloQ won't be overun with kogmaw mid if other teams also pick it and find success with it
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u/stylowo 8h ago
He needs some games to be useful with, because with this build you need to know when you can afford to spend 90% of your mana clearing waves with e+rs, also vs any assasins hes free elo if not played by main, so just prepare some Zeds, Fizzes or Yasuos and youre good to go :P
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u/Leevala 8h ago
Honestly, I'm more worried my own team (mid) picks Kogmaw and then faceplants into Yasuo, Yone, Locke, Akali or any assassin
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u/argnsoccer 7h ago
Ive been playing league since closed beta and have played AP kog for a veeeerry long time. Friend convinced me to try D&D build and stomped a game against Irelia. Then played against Naafiri and was literally getting farmed under my T2 with T1 up. I think I just am way too used to my power curve and electrocute and just literally int playing D&D. It is just absurd damage though. You just really lose out on the giga waveclear tanker build but then are also actually a champ in the midgame
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u/loyal_achades 6h ago
Most assassin matchups and the Yone matchup are completely unplayable. The few unexpected ones that are hard but not unplayable are yasuo and zed, at least in my experience.
The Yone one is by far the worst. Doesn’t matter how far away you try to farm from, he flies in from like 3 screens away and runs you down.
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u/TheBluestMan Team Fighting Player 8h ago
It’s not even sleeper OP, AP Kog’Maw is op as fuck and people refuse to play it. It’s so degenerate to face. Especially bot lane
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u/CloudNyan 8h ago
Drututt and Nemsis have been playing it for months. It’s definitely OP in certain situations
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u/BluntTruth1 6h ago
It's always confusing me that the guy has four abilities all scaling off AP, yet builds exclusively on-hit ad. Even nashors tooth isn't slotted in.
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u/the-sexterminator 2h ago
cos kogmaw W is such a good ability that it doesn't matter if you have 3 dead abilities since W investment can just carry you.
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u/Creepy_Expression_65 8h ago
Hopefully it gets nerfed. I hate facing it
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u/ChromosomeDonator 8h ago
That E hitbox is an actual fucking war crime. It's like twice as big as the visuals.
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u/Itsuwari_Emiki 8h ago
i think the real strength of kogmaw in pro is in the flex potential since it can go mid ap, bot ap, or bot onhit
the fact that ap kog and onhit kog are archetypically different champions makes it an actual flex.
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u/Tyranwuantm Free VGU Ideas for Rioters! 6h ago
I'll argue that counter for Kog'Maw is same regardless for teams, it's extremely volatile. Idk if any other team will pop it back, or it was just Chika special honestly.
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u/Bigzysmolz Weakside william 8h ago
The build is great,but I feel like onhit Kog is very overshadowed tbh.
I don't play Kogmaw too much,but the AP build feels amazing to play,and I'd rather play another marksman over onhit Kog.
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u/zoobloo7 6h ago
my friend who sucks plays this all the time, he will go 0/8 in lane and hit a random power spike and just do stupid amounts of damage its insane honestly
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u/WontSayGOaway 54m ago
ap kogmaw with DnD is like old ap varus, OP but took time til people noticed
Varus had better CC and burst, kogmaw has better range, poke, waveclear etc
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u/Xenonzusul 53m ago
Let's calm down a bit. As old viewers should know, meta in play-ins(groups), meta in swiss, and meta in playoffs are 3 completely different things, they might be similar, but have seen a ton of champs popping in and out of favor with teams as tournament progress. Put a lid on it and wait at least til half of swiss is done.
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u/Aayckorn 4h ago
I’ve been maining AP Kog. Super fun and effective. But I’ve been going Luden’s instead of Dnd first because I play him more like a long range missile and rarely use my W.
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u/naxalb-_- 8h ago
And imagine with a lost chapter
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u/stylowo 7h ago
You dont build lost chapter item because they dont synergise too well with DnD item. You only go it if you plan to play around ER, which right now is not visible in players in higher elo, but R spam AP Kog was nerf as his R can do 200 dmg and cost 400 mana if its not a low hp target.
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u/naxalb-_- 7h ago
People just do the most played build and since DnD it’s the most popular but it’s not the most winning (at least he was no it’s not enough stats) but when you do the math, there are still too much power in a mage build than with DnD. We have seen the same match, with one more e he could get a kill at least two times. Kog is not the best sheen player and DnD health and heal is not for kog’maw. Personally I still play mage version because I am still useful at 1000 range
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u/stylowo 6h ago
I dont know if I agree with you on these takes.
Dnd is most popular so its classicaly lower WR because less dedicated players try it.
Kog is great sheen champ because he has low cd q and r, built AS in kit. Dnd was better without heal for him, but its by far still better, and its coming from someone who loved playing old mana kog.As for build diffs, when I play mana kog now, I feel im strong only when im ahead, while dnd build gives you more agency when youre not winning. He still has a lot of ap because of raw ap so er still hits a lot, and low hp R hit is still strong on both builds, you have more dps in new build and thats why its popular. Fun aside, DnD is now superior build on Koggy, and data + pros/high elos prove it.
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u/naxalb-_- 6h ago
I’ve submitted the math in the answer of the other comment. Feel free to argue on it, I hope we will find the best build
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u/AccordingJellyfish8 7h ago
Dnd is much more powerful than regular mage build considering how much damage w does late game. You get like what? 40% max hp damage? What other item in the game can provide another proc of that every 1 or so seconds. Also kog is one of the best sheen users, you perma proc it with r, and ur abilities aren’t that long cd except e. Dnd hp is one of the best stats that kog can build too, as it lets you stat check a lot of mages, bruisers and assassins. You also do basically the same thing as ap mage, and can spam at 1k range if needed, just don’t be overstack r, and mana flow+pom will be more than enough.
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u/naxalb-_- 6h ago
DnD is very not the best item for Kog. At 1 item lvl9 DnD: his w deals 6+60/1001,5=6,9 max hp so 13,8 every sheen proc. He has 5 r because of only 600 mana. His e deals 70+75%60= 115. And his q deals 125+90/10060=179. Which is good but then there is the Luden which lvl 9 1 item. His w deals 3+100/1001,5= 4,5 max hp. He can cast 8 time because of 1200 mana max. His e deals 230+75%100=305. His q deals 125+90%100=215.
So because of the 40 ap we see his e and his q deals way more damaga
DnD has more stats but if you need the 800 golds of health. Get a true defensive item. This won’t save you. The as good but not mandatory because I’ve look for other master+ and between most auto even in team fight there will be a spell. The heal of DnD is 3% of max health so nothing and 10% ap of 60 so even more nothing. And the damage are 75base ad and 10% ap still not much.
To conclude, you sacrifice the 60% slow on e. More damage in your q and e. The most chapter power spike. Only to win win 13,8% max health every time you cast a spell with 600 mana max1
u/AccordingJellyfish8 6h ago edited 6h ago
You are look at an unrealistic scenario or in a vacuum. You aren’t spamming r until you run out of mana; I already mentioned this before. Kog does not need mana with 2 mana runes, so it’s basically wasted stats. Ludens also can proc on minions and be wasted. Also im not sure how you came to the conclusion that ludens is better even based on ur math. Also, why would you get a true defensive item? First item, and Shadowflame is mandatory on kog, and you only get to build defensive later on into the game, such as zhonya(which sucks), whereas Dnd allows you to stat check almost every mage and some bruisers and assassins.
minuscule increase on slow is useless, one or two procs of dnd prob does more damage. Lost chapter is barely a spike on kog, blasting+ruby is likely better. You are not spamming r and stacking it to infinity, thus you are getting much more uses. Also helps for taking towers and general duels. Oh, and it allows you to actually fight assassins, adc and brusiers in mid and close range battles, with slightly worse strength in long range. I forgot to also mention that it’s guaranteed damage vs skill shot. Missing e, q or r basically makes the increased damage from abilities useless, while w is just autos
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u/naxalb-_- 6h ago
With 600 mana you can do at maximum 25 spells before backing. I watched 3 master+ game with DnD and every fight he is oom before the end and just spam auto attack. Just build a Nashor and you will deals more damage. What is wrong with the DnD math, it’s a sheen that is 75% base ad so 883/4=66 + 6010% =6 so 72 more damage. Plus the double on hit who is 6,92=13,8. A spellblade proc is truly 72 damage+13,8% max health damage. For 40 mana while you only have 850 with the manaflow rune(I’ve forgot it last time but you can also add it on the other build where you will have more mana missing).
Then don’t tell me it’s the 300 health that will make you survive because it won’t and I will tell you that you have way more range by not using aa at all if you are not a safe place because you can play from a screen away with your q e and r1
u/AccordingJellyfish8 6h ago
Manaflow increases mana retention at max stacks, and pom allows you to basically freely use abilities in teamfights with take downs, granted r isn’t at max or close to max stacks. And yes LOL, how do u not understand that Dnd health itself allows you to stat check, it’s just factual. You aren’t gonna be able to do anything if any assassins get to you, and you can’t sideline properly with ludens. But you seem to be fixated on Dnd at being bad. So no point talking to you.
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u/naxalb-_- 6h ago
DnD is not a bad item it’s just that there are fact like you are oom before the end of every team fight. Just look at any game made with kog ap. And I tell you that most of the time if you have DnD, if you faced an assassin at the end of the fight you won’t be between 0 and 350 hp so DnD health will effectively not be enough. But Luden’s make you a better sidelaner because you will os the caster with e and finish the wave with a r then rotate to mid because you don’t play kog for sidelaning. If you have not any more arguments we can end this conversation. You didn’t change my mind, and looks like I didn’t change yours. Even if I counter most of your point and you didn’t answer mine
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u/AccordingJellyfish8 6h ago
As I said before, there’s no point talking to you. You said 350 hp doesn’t matter… so ur kinda clueless at best
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u/LeTTroLLu 4h ago
but when you do the math, there are still too much power in a mage build than with DnD
yeah, dnd turning kog W into undodgable 30% magic damage nuke is worse than building ludens
Kog is not the best sheen player
lol, lmao even
Personally I still play mage version because I am still useful at 1000 range
i really want to see how many Rs you hit when you can proc dnd with W twice and kill most targets
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u/QueenCamellia 8h ago
It was played by MVK against FUR yesterday and KC today. Broke damage records during the FUR game. Real interesting!