r/classicwow • u/its_Khro • 16h ago
Forever Take a guess at what these comments are referencing.
No cheating. Votes are removed as to not sway your opinion. There is a point to this semi-meta post at the end.
Please do guess, what is something so bad as to make a top 1% commenter doom harder than during WoD, Shadowlands, or this last week on retail? Something that can be deemed their worst design decision of all time? No RP-PvP? Store mounts? Drumroll please....
Its actually about the change/nerf to Touch of the Grave racial.
The drama-queen behaviour is insane in here. This sub has lost the plot entirely. I'm not exactly excited by the 25s ICD, its arbitrary, odd, and not represented in the tooltip, but this is a single target consistency increase, and fix for mass aoe topend and nasty interactions like prot paladin reckoning as they keep getting more health and procs in the endgame. The right response would be posts detailing WHY this is/feels bad, and suggestions/feedback to change it, if you feel that way. Hell, those posts should have come to light before as we knew it was OP for certain things, but instead good solutions were downvoted by people who thought this would make it to live in its OP iteration. Because they wanted to abuse it. You did this to yourselves.
I'm still rolling undead warrior. 4500 health(World first Rag 2019 had 4700+ with buffs 6 days into Classic as DPS warrior) and 2rppm at level 60 is 2x the healing of trolls passive regeneration (without spirit stacking), and does about the same damage as blood fury or berserking on average (0.5%, assumung around ~900 sim DPS for Fury that I've seen going around, obviously this is with old gear so take it with a grain of salt). It will be more than that for prot, which does lower damage, but still gets the value. It will also scale beyond these numbers obviously, as we get more health, just as the other racials scale with gear. I will agree though, this isnt ideal for classes with less health, being rogue/mage/priest generally. I'm hoping we get a 3rd pass on it.
And don't give me a "its obviously sarcasm or hyperbole". This is 3 comments in a sea of people on this sub essentially ragebaiting THEMSELVES mostly, and others as a sideeffect. Its also not the only topic recieving this kind of reaction. Get a grip. You are souring real feedback posted by flooding every post with unreasonable outrage, and we are only worse off for it.
/rant over I guess. State your stance in the comments if you'd like, but I'm done arguing with people that cant articulate past their first negative thought of any subject. Its kind of embarrasing on my part to have been doing that until now. Realizing as I type this I should prob just take a break from this sub until a couple of weeks after launch when these types have quit.
Edit: Seems I was onto something here. I dont feel as schizo now, thanks. 87% upvote ratio so far (at 250) on this post for those curious. Seeya at launch
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u/Dannya34 16h ago
Raid wide buffs
Edit: holy LOL. Now seeing the answer. People are truly out of their minds. And here I am, happy with just about everything for the most part. Is my class perfect? Nope. Do I have every feature I wanted in my classic+? Nope. Still happy.
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u/SlashOfLife5296 16h ago
Yeah this whole last month has been just endless drama. Feedback is to the point. Direct. Succinct.
But all of this is whining. Endless. Every issue is a priority, and guess what: if you act like that nothing will be a priority. Save the drama for when the sky is actually falling
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u/DankAF1994 16h ago
Starting to think half these people aren't even planning on playing Forever and just enjoy larping as miserable pricks
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u/YaoCrane 15h ago
They are not larping. They are miserable pricks.
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u/needconfirmation 13h ago
No, a lot of them are larping, or bots.
I saw many many comments yesterday in the RP-PVP threads of people lamenting how flagging ruins PVP specifically because people can just unflag themselves if they are losing.
Comment after comment saying how they expect every time they get into a fight and start winning the other person will just Unflag and run away.
A thing you cannot and never have been able to do in any version of wow ever.
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u/DankAF1994 12h ago
People have been inventing fictional retail features to get angry about on this sub for a while now.
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u/YaoCrane 11h ago
The irony is in my opnion you have to be a miserable prick to invent fictional mechanics to justify your complains and negativity
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u/FeelingSedimental 13h ago
There were a ton of whiny posters during classic anni talking about 05 and not actually playing the game. There are 100% larpers on here with no intention to play, getting upset at ???
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u/wartortlechortle 7h ago
Some of the things people are getting upset at also directly contradict my experience of playing the beta every day.
Like...I know what happened when I played. I was there.
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire 13h ago
I am frustrated with the sub and I'm actively managing myself to not let it detract from my hype.
The problem is, seemingly, the terrible takes from this sub are actually leading to game changes that are actively chipping away at my hype for the game.
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u/wigglin_harry 11h ago
Its even better, they are going to play forever for 10 hours a day despite all of their complaints
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u/Other-Read758 14h ago
This is why spriests got their issues ironed out. To the point feedback. Spriest community came together for a day and made a well thought out and written page of issues most agreed on, and put it on beta forums. It became top post of beta forums. 2 weeks later, spriest gets sizable changes that are mostly very in line with the desired changes in the spriest forum post. Thats how it should be done. Professionally to the point with no whining or insults.
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u/AnnalsofMystery 11h ago
That’s so like priest players. Not sure many other classes could manage that.
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u/Fluffy_Issue_4181 15h ago
So. Much. Salt.
Worst thing is, last 3 weeks there are 2 gamea I have played a lot. WoWF, and Wardogs. Combined those 2 subs is juat the most whine and complaining I have ever had.
Had to stop readibg my home feed, and went to News feed just to get some sense of normalcy. 😅
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u/RoadSpecialist 16h ago
lmao those comments could have been in any of the last 24h posts
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u/Shaggy214 15h ago
I don't know, probably some stupid sh*t like "My bag window is 2 pixels off from where it is in Classic."
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u/Turbulent-Leading-34 16h ago
A 1% commenter having the dumbest take possible is nothing surprising here
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u/Syfogidas_HU 11h ago
Yeah, like imagine this in real life.
"The guy that keeps talking all the time, the one you can't shut up, you know, that guy? Well yeah so they said something stupid."
Yeah the reaction would clearly be "yea well no shit".
The phrasing top 1% just makes it hit differently for some reason.
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u/Nearby-Film3440 16h ago
Blizzard should just completely ignore this subreddit, its nothing but contradictions and whining.
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u/userrnam 13h ago
YouTube comment sections have better takes most of the time and that should concern everyone lol
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u/coleco47 16h ago
I think devs shouldn’t listen nearly as much in here. The people in beta actually submitting tickets should be who devs are paying attention to most tbh
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u/padwani 16h ago
Touch if the grave was so fucking strong. You really felt it the most on rogue and warr.
It procs constantly as prot warr when killing 3 or 4 mobs it was actually broken.
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u/MasahikoKobe 14h ago
People love being overpowered. Just wading and a shield with dots and i was nearly never stopping for anything even con and lower. It ws so silly how good priest was with free life leech
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u/Sol_Pastures 16h ago
The Fury tanking was viable with TOTG. Pretty sure Rogues/Warriors are exactly why it got nerfed
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u/wixed11one 16h ago
It is impossible to know, these are the exact responses to every change made, no matter how small
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u/Sandman145 15h ago
you make a well though post and comment about changes and balance then you dont get anyone that agrees with you in the first moments of it existing.. gets downvoted to oblivion by ppl that are constanly online and downvoting anything they dont agree with. no one sees it and there it goes all your well though critique.. that's why ppl dont make it most of the time if its gonna be treated like youre trying to make murder legal instead of generating a respectful discussion.
the downvote system of reddit kills any sort of respectful and logical discussion on anything about the game.
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u/SkiaTheShade 15h ago
Totally agree. I’m about at the point of just leaving from this sub so I don’t ruin the game for myself. Every. Single. Fucking. Thing feels just like negative whining and complaining because people can’t handle the idea that not everyone gets everything and that not everything is perfectly balanced. If a racial prevents you from being able to enjoy the game, or unable to play the game(participate in content) then fuck right off.
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u/PMME-SHIT-TALK 15h ago
Feel like I visit this sub once a week and every time it’s 20 of the same posts all referencing some streamer video or recent popular post about some new game destroying issue. 3 types of comments are “doesn’t seem like that big of deal”, “this is so true I actually thought this too before your post but never said anything about it, this is why I’m not even going to play Forever, this is not fixable and blizz doesn’t give a shit about us, can’t and won’t fix it and hopes we all fucking die” and some guy commenting on this sub being dramatic and/or that the complaints being overblown, with the top reply to that comment being “feedback is how this gets fixed, this game is fucked if it ships with this issue at launch, complaining about complaining is so weird to me, blizzard asked us to give feedback”. Rinse and repeat.
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u/BarryAllensMom 15h ago
I feel like bots have taken over this subreddit. A lot of the comments are just "Generic negative comment".
Blizzard stated Mages were getting new spells a month ago. Melt down over the new spells. Blizzard said each DPS spec was going to have 3-4 buttons in a 10 second rotation. Arcane mages with 2.... Meltdown over them getting a 3rd.
It's just nonsense and a lot of it exists because the Devs revealed that they are willing to listen to the community.
Back in the day it took a fucking campaign to get the Devs to listen to their wow forum posts.
I'm all in on the Devs telling the "social" communities to fuck off and do their thing. The game is already a success and it's only in beta. They don't need to pander to bot posts.
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u/CableZzzzzzzz 16h ago
With the way people are it could literally be anything.
People act like every new patch note is the last they'll ever get.
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u/QuePasol 15h ago
Yeah some nuanced feedback or criticism backed up by substantiated arguments is fine, and there have definitely been plenty of great posts and comments that go into detail to explain their point of view in a respectable manner.
However, there are also quite a lot of people (weirdly usually 1% commenters for some reason) that just overreact on every change or every decision they don't like with some hyperbolic dooming declaring the game dead on arrival.
Be it because of the accidental Outlaw Sabre nerf, disagreeing on dungeon philosophy or any small or big topic you can think about.
While sometimes I agree with them that a certain change or decision is questionable or maybe dislike it, the level of absolute drama queen behaviour is really starting to annoy me by now. Probably better to just ignore this toxic sub if you don't wanna kill any excitement you have for the game by now.
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u/Maleficent_Story_351 16h ago
It's almost like all theese classic andys have built up this dream version of "classic+" in their heads for way to long and the second something isen't 100% to their liking they freak the fuck out. The game isen't even out yet and ur literally crying about racials, jesus christ
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u/bjlight1988 15h ago
If half of the people here spent as much time in therapy as they do getting irrationally upset over a reimagining of a 20 year old videogame, they probably wouldn't be nearly as upset at the reimagining of the 20 year old videogame.
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u/ShaunPlom 15h ago
i knew exactly what they were talking about because i replied to the bottom comment. i should spend less time on reddit...
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u/Fieroow 15h ago
It's so funny to me that whenever you play the beta everyone is excited and is having fun, not a single bad word was mentioned in the time i leveled 4 characters to 30. Then you open Reddit and it's all doom and gloom, OP is correct, people this miserable should probably find another game to play and let the people who do enjoy Forever have their fun.
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u/Cant_Spell_Shit 16h ago
There's a mixture of people who recognized that racials weren't balanced very well and people who are mad because the race they wanted to play got nerfed.
Yesterday's changes did a great job of bringing the racials closer in line IMO. Not perfect but much better than they were before.
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u/FishingWithPaddy 16h ago
Now they'll say, "I have to play [insert race] to get crit chance, but i want to play [insert other race]. They are forcing me to play the crit chance race!"
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u/FeelingSedimental 13h ago
Love the amount of people pretending that a 0.1% difference between racials is gonna change their green parse. Even before this round of reworks none of the racials were anywhere close to the difference between orc and human vs other races in classic.
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u/V2_Click 10h ago
It’s a 2 button game that someone without high school degree can pink parse by following a guide on which items to wear and which two buttons to press.
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u/BarbsFPV 13h ago
2% increased crit damage may as well be nothing though.
Crits are double damage already. Let’s say a normal hit is 100 damage, and a crit is 200 damage. That means you now do 202 damage instead of 200.
They may as well just get rid of racials at this point if they’re going to be that useless. This is just an observation, not a complaint.
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u/PTPR 13h ago
Yep, this sub has completely gone off the deep end. We're getting a version of WoW most people would have believed to be a utopia just a few months ago and nonetheless people get hung up on the most minor of issues.
"Balance isn't important" gets lots of lip service, until it affects them negatively in any way, apparently. Everybody who isn't addicted to a rage circle jerk like the vocal majority here seems to be would probably be better off just never visiting this sub again, it's such a miserable place.
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u/Evilcanary 15h ago
Most 1% commenters don't have that flag because they're going into every post and posting good or insightful things. They are just doom spamming and jerking off to being negative and confused why other people are having fun.
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u/BarbsFPV 13h ago
All these 1% commenter posts, and I never asked for the flair, lol.
I promise I won’t live up to the stereotype.
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u/Rage_King27 14h ago
Part of me feels like folks just don’t understand how to use words. Everything is the worst most horrible mistake and the game is unplayable. My 6 yo says he has the worst day ever whenever he has a minor inconvenience - because he’s six. Gotta lay off the hyperbole and ground yourselves in reality a bit.
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u/Kripes8 16h ago
Definitely an over reaction I will agree but DAMN 25s icd? That got dookied on. If it's going to have a a longer icd did they at least increase the proc chance a ton?
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u/Gold-Appearance-4463 15h ago
From 5 for melee and 10 for casters to 20% for melee and 30% for casters. It procs nearly instantly once the ICD is up.
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u/Spaceolympian50 15h ago
lol typical Redditor doomer take. They’ll never ever comment anything positive but always have time to shit on everything and think they know better than anyone else.
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u/Weak_Hedgehog2507 16h ago
They will complain about literally anything at this point and the game will still be more successful than ever.
Dungeon xp nerf? Racial changes? Raid wide totems? Because they didn't ban a streamer?
95% of all the WoW subs at this point are just 0 upvote opinion pieces from angry gamers yelling at clouds.
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u/OrbeckV 12h ago
"Racials aren't a big deal, calm tf. down"
>Entirety of wotlk onwards with op pve horde racials domino-ing into crossfaction being required due to grouping bottlenecks even in midcore/dad content years later in the case study called "Retail" while serious pvp was alliance/human only.
Like yeah ofc. you're right that this level of pessimism is absurd, but so is the goldfish/tiktok tier memory of people where I can literally quote Ion on why they had to make crossfaction a thing and people seriously think this couldn't happen to forever when the classic community has proven time and time again it's sweaty af. no matter how easy the content is.
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u/quagmirranseye 16h ago
Why does "top 1% commenter" matter? Literally need 1 comment with a ton of upvotes to get it.
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u/hollowpurpose 15h ago
Yeah man the thing is, the loudest most vocal minority are going to come here and spill their grievances to their perceived audience. Hundreds of thousands of people will play this game and enjoy it thoroughly, so don't let a few doomed Twitter finger redditors ruin it for you.
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u/Japjer 15h ago
That's the bigger thing that a lot of folks here don't realize: this place is a perceived audience.
Other users make posts as if their opinion is some gospel that defines a fucking generation, get 4,000 upvotes, and feel as if they've changed the world ... and completely ignore the fact that they've reached less than 0.06% of active players.
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u/UniversalTrees49 16h ago
I could care less about touch of grave change. What really bothers me is the homogenization of the races weapon racials. The amount of identity that was lost is insane. Now every race just gets %2 crit or %2 crit dmg?
Dumb as fuck, and only happened because all of the losers whining about their race being marginally worse than others. This game is gonna turn to retail lite if the devs keep listening to you fucks
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u/QuePasol 15h ago
You started your post great with the first paragraph voicing some fair criticism. Second part feels a bit much and is exactly the drama queen behavior and jumping to ridiculous conclusions I dislike.
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u/BarbsFPV 13h ago
I think the second paragraph is one that many of us could write, as we watch people argue over stuff that‘s insignificant 99% of the time, and maybe has an effect 1% of the time.
However some people think that‘s 100% why they suck compared to other players.
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u/Miculmuc90 15h ago
This is only because some basement dweller neck beards complain like 3 year olds that they’re not going to be able to parse 100% because x race has y racial and they would much rather jerk off to z race while also mashing those 3 buttons in raid. The real problem with this game is with the community.
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u/Ok-Woodpecker4734 15h ago
Yeah I really love the racial identity of being a human priest that can't use swords, or an orc mage/warlock that cant use axes
Really fucking fun and sick dude
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u/bjlight1988 15h ago
Oh no 😭, everybody can use every weapon without having to actively make themselves worse 😭 How will we ever recover 😭 from such a horrible thing 😭😭😭😭😭 Honestly this has ruined 😭 my ability to ever play this game 😭😭😭
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u/Guilty_Turn8903 14h ago
this place clearly isnt good for your mental health OP if it has you stalking random redditors
just go to the main wow sub where you can pretend the retail driven garbage they keep revealing bit by bit is actually good and the devs are literal gods
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u/Southern_Salary_2253 16h ago
I'm sure its something even less petty than this, but knowing Classic Andy's, I'm going to say it's about Legacy Talents, specifically the one to remove the need for vendor reagents on class spells.
Edit: Yeah, doesn't surprise me at all lmao. When your identity is playing a 2004 game for 25 years, you kind of make a mountain out of a molehill over every time detail.
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u/Dabeston 15h ago
It’s because the devs actually read the reddit and controversial talk is engaging so it stays on the front page.
So bitching and whining is the best way to get the devs to look at your issue. Stupid system, they should not even look at the reddit.
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u/marmarzipan 15h ago
It could be literally anything with this subreddit. Blizzard is giving us the coolest addition to wow in 20 years and this sub will tell you why it’s actually the worst thing that’s ever happened. Every post, just a bunch of miserable SOBs.
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u/LadyLing 15h ago
I agree i think most changes are goin in decent direction sure not everything is perfect but they can slowly adjust
This sub needs Purge (Arthas was right)
Im still wondering which race to go for my Warrior Tonk
Ima just gonna enjoy my WoW Forever like all the people that are not on reddit All the whining honestly is stupid and way to negative to me, sure u can give critiscm but i see more whining everyday rather than usefull advice how you would change something for better.
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u/undeniableregarded 15h ago
I read this sub for news but people's takes on here do make me chuckle a view times a day. Anywho, I'll be playing Nov 4th and probably just turn all of the forever subs off and enjoy the game.
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u/Morgn_Ladimore 15h ago
I like to read this sub as entertainment at work. Its so hilariously dramatic.
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u/Itis-caught-BearsWin 15h ago
Sky elves? Banning for gold buying? Failing to have a button to hide cloak/helm?
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u/shafty17 15h ago
I think it's important to recognize that most people like myself that were interested in the beta for actually testing things out or figuring out which class to main have done that and are playing much less at this point. The remaining people still going hard are the sweatiest nerds going for their lvl 30 BiS in a beta that is about to wipe. The community feedback at this stage is probably not that representative of the whole
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u/moonlitfarewell 15h ago
It could honestly be about anything, from any side of the classic andy vs retail andy bs... Both sides are insufferable ngl
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u/The_MrShine 15h ago
To be fair, complaining incessantly about class balance and racials really brings that early 2000s Blizzard forum feel to WoW Forever.
Thank you whiners for helping recreate the original WoW experience.
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u/MasahikoKobe 15h ago
When i read the comment i was like: "This could be literally anything at the moment". Seeing it was the Undead thing it makes me think that most people really just want to be playing an ARPG where they are so broken they can just destroy the screen.
I just want to get into the world and see where this shit goes. Maybe i have played enough other MMOs where balance and whatever is happening is just part of the game. I just want to play the game, have fun meeting people and doing content and playing with the guild. Maybe ill be overpowered one day. Maybe ill be average forever as long as the game is fun thats what matters.
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u/Background_World_713 15h ago
Blizz must be doing a great job because according to different posts on this reddit somehow every class is simultaneously OP but also terrible and won't ever get invited to raids. perfectly balanced
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u/Wassa76 14h ago
I plan on playing Alliance, but this racial sucks.
The consistency has improved which is great, but together with the cooldown it’s a nerf.
Why? Because you don’t want to lifesteal at the start of the fight.
I’m not against the cooldown, but it should be an activateable ability to get value from it, or the effect should be lowered, but always applied so each attack drains less life (speed/caster normalised).
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u/Naokin37 14h ago
People learned that blizzard is willing to make somewhat big changes/additions according to feedback and suddenly people are crying about everything in here.. well not suddenly, people always complain about something, but i feel like it's all I see in here.
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u/mmmmiksu 14h ago
making it ppm made sense but now it's too far in the other direction. 10-15s would be ideal and if that's too strong make it 3%
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u/tycoon39601 14h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xC2RrLxMFT2wKANwKx
Most of these idiots not even playing forever.
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u/mDovekie 13h ago
For what it's worth, I truly hate the idea of changing something from a proc to a ppm. Didn't read the whole thing about how animated they got about it though. That doesn't make it a bad change.
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u/jmorfeus 13h ago
Reddit is fucking mental as a whole. Holy shit I would love the devs to just ignore it altogether.
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u/userrnam 13h ago
Anything related to class/race balancing isn't even on my radar. Maybe people are thinking the game won't have any balance patches after launch? That's my only guess to explain this behavior. It's all subject to change... forever.
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u/Individual-Level9308 13h ago
A lot of these people are not even going to play the game, let alone level to 60.
A good/large amount to you will get to 30 and get bored and move on.
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u/Playful-Goat3779 12h ago
It's either gold mining or banning accounts that have characters with names like "Hitlers Cumrag"
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u/ifarmer7 12h ago
As a pretty casual player (an hour or two a night, a few days a week) I honestly could not care about racials and what changes they make. Honestly if a % goes up or down here and there who really can tell? If you're in a duel, 1% damage with swords vs 2% damage is probably not going to be a difference maker. Why are people making such a big deal about small changes?
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u/ExtraTea8601 12h ago
All damage should be reduced across the board. Vanilla WoW is too easy in 2026. Forever should increase difficulty to remain analogous with people trying to play on old hardware, bad internet, and not understanding that game under the hood in 2004.
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u/Fabuloux 12h ago
I’m a retail player who just subs here to watch the meltdowns. I got called a hobby vandal on this sub because I think the HD models are mostly fine
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u/backpacks645 11h ago
I swear half the people on here are just miserable humans that are terminally online obsessed with crying about everything
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u/Disastrous-Bat-8809 11h ago
i really like that line. i think i'm going to use it for everything now "If they did this in OG vanilla the game would have died"
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u/Jooylo 11h ago
Yeah people are crazy. One comment someone will say races don’t really matter actually and if you want to min max then just choose another race, that it’s actually good to have imbalance. Then something is nerfed/changed on their race and go berserk because they didn’t really mean any of what they said and actually care a bit too much lol. Mostly talking about Orc who still have some of the best racials btw.
Undead racial seemed a little overtuned for solo content in some classes, but they did maybe scale it back too much.
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u/droneral666 11h ago
25s ICD seems a bit much considering the chance of it to proc but there not being an ICD at all is a really really really strong on AOE-ing classes.
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u/gmfreak1991 11h ago
The fact you calculated your dps, health, and health Regen at level 60 to min/max your class to pick given some beta test is worse than what your complaining about.
What made classic wow great was players choosing what race and class to pick based on what they thought looked and felt cool, and nothing else. Screw you and everyone like you for ruining a great game. I will not be playing, you guys fucking SUCK and the social aspect of this game can never be captured again
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u/MyNameWasTaketh 11h ago
Let's be logical for one minute. Raid wide buffs are definitely going to effect class selections in raids.
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u/RubberDuxk 10h ago
here i am going hpal on horde and dont care ill still play and enjoy with the buddies
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u/Kaiyuni- 10h ago edited 9h ago
My guess are the racial changes. To be fair, the racial changes are bad. They aren't game-ending horrible and can be changed a lot sure, but they are still bad. I'm willing to give blizzard time to cook on these to be honest. What I'd like to see is all purely active racials and no passive ones. Or if there are passive ones, at least make them more interesting. I play human myself and I just see "Oh I get 2% more crit chance. Okay." and it leaves my mind forever. I don't ever have to think about it.
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u/limitbreakse 9h ago
It honestly reminds me of instagram bots. Maybe it is actually engagement bots in action.
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u/Antipatrid 9h ago
I'd respect this a bit more if the psychosis was homegrown authentically in a deranged person's brain but half the time its someone parroting a streamer's opinion more loudly and more extremely as a form of masturbatory in-group signalling. No actual conscious thought taking place at all.
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u/RoyInverse 7h ago
It was obvious it was gonna get an icd, unarmed stamina stacking undead was never intended to be a playstyle.
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u/SilentHillSunderland 4h ago
Had to unsubscribe from this sub. I feel like I’m losing my mind. I’m just excited for a new WoW, I play the beta, have fun, come here and it’s like 9/11 happens every day. There should be a study on how this place gets whipped into a savage frenzy every patch when something is a little wrong.
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u/Eateries 3h ago
Yeah they’re dramatic, but it would suck to see the race or class you’re planning to play “Forever” get a massive nerf.
Obviously they’re overreacting in a beta though.
Hopefully they dial it back a bit on this one btw.
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u/dilqncho 16h ago edited 16h ago
I agree this sub has gone insane.
I read it because I'm excited about Forever and I wanted to follow conversations about it. But holy shit literally every time I open the sub it's just more incessant whining and drama.
I get not everyone is going to like everything but there's a line. If these are the people I'm supposed to be playing with next month, I honestly do hope a lot of them keep their own promises and just quit.