I’ve had many discussions with religious people about the ethical treatment of animals and one of the most common things they tell me is that the slaughter of animals for food is justified because god gave us dominion over the animals. Yet they will often also admit that (according to their religion) this world was created without violence and that humans and other animals did not kill each other for food before “the fall.” In other words, they believe god initially intended for the world to be vegan.

Surely, if christians believe that their god wanted a world without violence, where we weren’t slaughtering other animals for food or making them suffer in factory farms, and if christians want to behave in ways that please their god, surely it’s obvious that they should be advocating against all unnecessary animal cruelty, including the cruelty within the meat and dairy industries? But instead, we mostly see the opposite.

If there are any christians reading this, I’d love to know your thoughts on my conclusions here. I personally don’t believe in any gods but I enjoy respectful discussion and debate with religious people.

This question/post is inspired by a recent debate I with a christian in London so I’ll include a link to that conversation below. Any views would be hugely appreciated! ✌️

https://youtu.be/xAxqWUBp7R0?is=cDFAZ5jwcSLSi_GZ

There is a post on r/atheism asking about veganism. The poster seems genuinely curious and wants to learn, but the comments are so disheartening.

I tried my best to explain my reason for being vegan to answer OP and also converse/debate with some of them politely, but trying to interact with people who obviously have very little understanding of philosophic/moral arguments is like trying to explain things to children.

I totally thought there would be a lot more overlap with atheists being vegan. Without religion as a justification to harm animals, it seems like being vegan is a relatively easy next step. There were some vegans who also commented. But it's mostly just "lions though", "we're carnivores", "meat is tasty" arguments.

ive been vegan for three years and it is a decision i would never change. but when i first became vegan, i knew my cognitive dissonance was definitely bigger. i wasnt yet aware of how much the animals suffered, and just how unique and filled with personality each animal is. i just knew it wasnt right to hurt and abuse them, and thus i became vegan.

now i adopted my rescue cat a year ago. hes a senior with no teeth left, most likely with bad eyes, and he was supposed to be euthanised before he was rescued. after he spent months in his foster place locked in a small room, because he didnt get along with the other cats.

when he came to us, he had lost all hope in life. he was terrified and would cry all day and he was so tiny and starved (he has terrible seperation anxiety and wont eat if he doesnt feel comfortable). it took him a year to become accustomed to us, and now he is the most loving and chatty cat in the whole world.

what i never was aware of before him (id never had any pets) is just how unique each animal is. and throughout this year ive become so heartbroken for all animals in animal testing and in factory farms.

i will never know the personality of the animal that my family is eating for lunch. i will never know if they liked to be pet and where, if they are more calm or perhaps more energetic. if they have any unique quirks. it is just a corpse of a poor being that probably was in so much pain and so scared.

when i look at videos and photos of those animals, i see my cat in each one of them. i see animals that wanted to play with their friends, and nap in the sun, and have their bellies cuddled like my cat does. but instead they were forced through so much pain and suffering, and they were probably more terrified and more broken than my cat was.

i can never give them the life they deserve, i will forever have to live with my loved ones paying for those atrocities and serving their corpses as food.

i just needed to rant about this. today i looked at videos of piglets in factory farms and they are so scared and cant reach their mommy because of the iron bars. and i will never know if they liked a certain treat, or if they liked to sleep in a certain spot, or if they liked to run or laze around... i just dont get how anyone can keep supporting this animal abuse, and how people are even willing to eat corpses. obviously i cant ask anyone in my family or friend circles, because they themselves dont know

Hi! I’m an indie dev, and I noticed that almost every cozy game with animals ends up treating them as products: milk, eggs, wool, money.

So we’re working on a small game where you run a cow sanctuary. Cows arrive rescued, every one has a name and a family tree, and your only goal is to make them happy. No milking, no selling.

Before we go further, I’d love your thoughts:
- Would a game like this interest you?
- Do you know any games that already do this well?
- What would you want to see in it?

This is something I’m genuinely curious (so anyone who grew up on such small farms please share your experience; and I guess I should ask this in another subreddit but just thinking about how they’d describe it as nothing or even justify it makes me mad) about because when it comes to online discourse many people and especially people who grow up in such small farms will claim people should just buy their meat from there, because the animals are “well loved and cared for and only have one bad day”, “we love our animals more than vegans” and other bogus copium bs. I can’t think of a way to kill an animal “ethically”, especially if you claim to have truly loved it.

The slaughter room wouldn’t be pretty. Imagine all the blood, and the energy in the room would be tainted from the animal’s fear imo. Not to get all woo woo but humans are also energetic creatures, unless you purposely choose to be cognitive dissonant to it (or became immune to it) I’m sure you’d sense it?

Do they send them to an industrial slaughterhouse if they don’t have a slaughterhouse themselves?

Or do they use a tool like a gun?

Anyway it always ticks me off when people compare this to plants with the whole “using vegan logic if you love nature then you shouldn’t eat plants”, “plants have feelings” because harvest day simply does not hold the same energy as slaughter day 🤷 This is simply irrefutable. If anyone wants to refute this, first of all I think you’d have to be a psychopath to genuinely not agree with this, secondly would you rather a child break a chicken’s neck or pull a carrot out of the soil? The fact is one is much more psychologically detrimental (either deeply traumatises the child or evokes sadistic tendencies in their developing brains) and the other a much more psychologically rewarding and grounding experience.

i'm new to veganism since the world went online. im 33 and grew up around vegetarians and vegans but have been eating meat since college. i felt inspired to become vegan again a few weeks ago and jumped into the conversations online. i found out for the first time that 60% of viruses amongst humans are zoonotic and that we breed genetically similar animals and keep them in confinement which creates all these crazy viruses that spread to us. i never knew and am shocked that this isnt the central talking point when it comes to meat eating versus veganism. from what i gather, transitioning to primarily plant based would pose new threats like spore based illness and famine, but this seems far less existentially threatening than viruses. i just cannot fathom that most people globally have no idea where contagions actually come from and that its not public knowledge that so many people fall ill because we breed livestock. im wondering if its sustainable to keep subjecting ourselves to these zoonotic viruses and trying to outsmart them forever with vaccines. thanks for reading <3

So ive been on and off vegetarian the past 4 years, but recently I've actually been thinking about it and im becoming vegan now.

My perspective on the world is changing, and what im seeing is horrifying

Aesthetic tiktok videos about making coffee and baking, but they're using milk and all I can think about is 'how many cows were exploited for that' and 'would they mashed the video so aesthetic if they knew how that milk was taken?'

And its not even that hard to make the switch. If you're not stubbornly ignorant, plant based foods are better in so many ways, both nutritionally and in taste

Yet the animal product industries continue to thrive. They profit off the suffering or animals because so many people are just content to drink their milk and eat their meat without having to think about the living beings they came from

Its so disgusting. I hate how ignorant most people are.

Just a rant but it's irritating how people consider vegan men less masculine or soft.

There's nothing strong or manly about killing defenseless animals yet if you're a vegan man you get met with "soyboy" comments that are really just rooted in homophobia and misogyny.

It's contradictory because in the same breath society will say men are supposed to be protectors but when I protect animals by refusing to consume, hunt, or fish them, then I'm considered weak and less of a man. Killing an animal without remorse isn't masculine, it's psychotic.

We're domesticated animals, not living in the elements desperate for survival. There's zero reason to hunt aside from wanting to kill something and get away with it. If you can afford guns, ammo, and hunting gear then you and your family most likely are not starving and you can afford groceries that don't contain animals. Make it make sense

TLDR: I need new boots and need help deciding between WVS lace up boots, WVS Chelsea Boots, Blundstone Chelseaboots and used animal leather boots. My main factor for deciding are durability and comfort. The used animal boots because of a probably smaller environmental impact although I struggle with the idea.

I need to get some shoes that will last for a few years and I though I should get some boots. But I don't know which vegan boots will last long. I narrowed it down to WVS lace up boots, WVS Chelsea boots and blundstone Chelsea boots. I like the look of the lace up boots more but they need more maintenance and I'm not to good at that. Also I don't know if the quality of WVS is better than the one of blundstone. I would be happy if you could tell me your experience. I'm also kind of thinking about getting used leatherboots. But I kind of don't really want to do that but if it will last longer than vegan boots it would probably be much better for the environment. It still feels kinda wrong tho. I also have a leather jacket that I am struggling with deciding if I should continue to wear it. Since it normalises animal exploitation. What would you decide on?

I've been a vegan since the first day of 2019, and only in the past few (4 or so) years have I started changing the way that I view insects. It started out with me saving bugs that were in my apartment and bringing them outside. I would scoop up a spider (one time even in the middle of taking a shower haha!) or centipede or whatever was crawling around and put it in a jar and bring it outside to release it or open a window and let it crawl outside. There were certain insects though that I didn't even think twice before smacking down- like flies. And admittedly, I actually did smash a few spiders that were crawling near me unexpectedly, almost like I had an instinctual and conditioned response to doing so without realizing that this little creature was not going to hurt me.
Fast forward to about a year ago when I started seeing a lot of centipedes in my house during the warmer months. I wanted to know why I was seeing so many of them, and in doing so, I started learning about them. They are harmless, shy, and actually very good to keep around, since they eat other insects that actually can harm humans via bacteria and diseases (like cockroaches). They are scared of humans and just want to crawl around and forage for other bugs to eat. When I read this about them, I genuinely think something in me changed on a spiritual level, almost like I finally understood and saw them, and by extension all insects, as creatures who are doing exactly as we humans are doing-- trying to survive, forming bonds, feeling pain, experiencing emotions (yes, bugs do have emotions!), and sometimes even playing! I started viewing them with admiration, love, appreciation for their contribution to ecosystems, and - don't laugh- a motherly instinct to protect them, to care for them , and to let them be. I no longer feel fear when I see insects, and my fight or flight conditioned response to seeing them and acting unnecessarily scared seems to have greatly diminished.

I've had the same spider living in my window sill for months. I used to try to swat it away, now I just let it be and even say hi to it. Maybe its just my emotions getting the better of me, but I swear that sometimes when I save a bug or talk to it, I feel this deep connection to it, almost like in that moment in time, its just me and them, allowing the other to co-exist, living in harmony. I feel like this part of me that once was still holding onto speciesist conditioning towards insects has been lifted, and I enjoy the appreciation I can feel for them now.

Has anyone else shifted their perspectives towards insects and now feels much better and more compassion for them? Has veganism played a role in that shift for you?

I’m going to be vegan anyway. I can’t ever go back now after seeing what I’ve seen. But what can I expect? I’m middle aged so my body is rather unforgiving, and I’m under no illusions that the “meat alternatives” are super healthy. I don’t even like them. I don’t enjoy the processed alternatives at all but I’ll be honest, I have no idea how to prepare or cook tofu, so I know I can do better.

I can’t ever imagine eating animals again, but I feel pretty bleak about my health in the future. I usually go to the gym 4 to 5 times per week and had a hard time getting enough protein when I was eating animals (which makes me feel awful, even saying it). But now I have to rely on pea protein and seitan etc…I’m going to struggle.

I think I just need to hear from people who have been living the vegan way for a long time. I mean like 10+ years and if you had any health issues, so I can get myself prepared and / eat the right things to prevent it. Especially those of you who are active and need to fuel to gain muscle to perform in any sports. Thank you.

Edit: sorry I have no real idea how Reddit works so I have “upvoted” all of you so far because all of your responses are wonderful and helpful and if I missed anyone I’m sorry! I’m sorry really sure if the up arrow counts as a “like” but I like all of you! A lot. Thank you ☺️

Hello everybody! It‘s a little crazy, but I had a ground breaking experience recently at an animal sanctuary and I really can’t imagine consuming animal products ever again. I was petting and doing belly rubs on the sweetest baby pig ever and something just made „click“ in my head. I looked into his eyes and felt so much joy and sadness at the same time, thinking that so many others of his kind are ending daily on our plates. After that I started to watch several videos about animal cruelty in the meat/dairy/egg industry and ever since, I feel such a deep pain when I think about how we purposely decide to ignore the suffering of animals for our own comfort.

However, I’m really really struggling right now. Before I wasn’t even vegetarian, so for me it’s a very radical change. I gave up on dairy products few years ago because I never liked the taste, but I don’t know what to do about eggs. I love the taste and I also love baking cakes, so I need help in finding some good substitutes that are not too expensive and too complicated to prepare. Do you have any suggestions?

Also, with what foods should I start with, in order to have a balanced diet and get used to it gradually? Do you have some advice for beginners? Also, I‘m a woman and whenever I‘m getting my period, I have some really bad cravings for meat. I know it’s really bad, but I assume it’s because the body is trying to compensate for the loss of iron and minerals. Any advice in regards to that?

Last but not least, me and my husband want to try for a baby soon, so any advice regarding an appropriate diet before and during pregnancy is very welcome. So far I‘ve been eating lots of beans, chickpeas, lentils, smoked tofu and tempeh, but I feel that my diet is becoming repetitive.

I’m sorry for the long post, but I would be really grateful for any kind of advice. It’s so difficult for someone who’s been an omnivore all her life, but I feel like there’s really no other option for me. I feel ashamed of myself that I’ve been so ignorant for 34 years of my life and I want to go through with this. I just want to cry when I think about how much suffering I‘ve caused as an individual to those animals and I never want to do it again.

I became vegan in July. Everyone in my hometown has been surprisingly respectful and not annoying, considering it is a hunting town (I was raised to hunt, and moose meat was a staple dinner in my childood).

Today I was working and when I returned to their house, my stepmother rather proudly declared she had made sure to cook me a dinner with no milk or dairy or eggs: ...garlic chicken wings. I said "do you mean tofu garlic chicken wings?"

Her eyes went wide, and suddenly, she realized...that chicken isn't vegan? I honestly don't know what she was thinking. She actually hates garlic, so she was genuinely trying to make me a meal i would like. We've had multiple conversations where i described exactly what vegan means. We havent always had a very good relationship but I genuinely think she meant well. She felt pretty bad but i honestly just dont get it. Spent all day thinking chicken was vegan. Bizarre story today, just wanted to share.

I really want to go vegan but I’m extremely weak willed. From a very young age I’ve had a rubbish relationship with food, always over or under eating and punishing myself for doing so. At the minute I’m healthier than I’ve ever been but still battling food noise and overeating. I feel terrible every time I eat meat or dairy, as I should, but somehow my being horrified at the torture animals are enduring globally still isn’t enough to stop me consuming animal products. Is it as simple as I just don’t care enough? What can I do to change?

Hey so I'm 18 and still live with my family. I've been really trying to go vegan but my family isn't. I already stopped buying anything that isn't vegan I think, but my family keeps buying meat and stuff. I don't wanna eat it but there is something non vegan in EVERYTHING they cook. Most of the time I just cook for myself vegan options but it's hard to ditch everything my family cooks for me. Also they get pretty annoying when they see I do and get offended. It also makes me feel kind of bad cause after all it's my family cooking and caring for me and I should be grateful for that. What could I do? Sometimes I just end up eating their food anyway but I dont like it...don't judge me, I'm really trying to go vegan or at least vegetarian. They wouldn't understand my choice, so I dunno what to do.

i study drama and in our speech lessons we're performing political speeches.

we were told to pick something we're passionate about. my flatmate chose animal cruelty. yet she "could never go vegan" and loves eating meat.

i just don't understand and it makes me feel like im losing my mind. i can't comprehend how they don't see the complete and utter hypocrisy.

I'm going vegan, I do not believe in the exploitation of animals. If it weren't for outside pressures, I think I would've been vegan sooner. I've been vegetarian for over a year and already had difficulty socially and with my family not understanding (ie they fed me chicken because it's "not meat").

How do you navigate social events with close friends/family who laugh at vegetarianism, let alone veganism? I want to stick to my principles but I am so socially anxious about losing my few friends.

I’ve always been a meat eater (a carnist? I keep seeing that word here), never been even vegetarian, never really spent any time considering changing my diet for any reason that wasn’t about me and my desires. This sub keeps popping up in my feed and tbh I started perusing it to gawk at the “crazy angry vegans” I’m always hearing about. And yes, y’all are pretty crazy and angry- because of deep passion and unshakeable desires to protect living things that aren’t just human. And it’s really making me take a look at myself and my values and my own hypocrisy. I don’t really think about what I eat, and that’s a problem on so many levels! I’ve known this in a broad health-type way for a while and have been wanting to be more conscious of what I put into my body as a way of taking better care of myself, and it’s really exciting to think I can do that through the avenue of taking better care of the animals on this planet that I truly love so much. It may be my diet, my consumption, but it’s about so much more than just me.

So all that being said, what advice does anyone have for a brand brand brand new potential vegan? Recommended reading, podcasts, ppl to follow on various platforms, etc

Not sure if this the best sub for this. In summary:
Where can I learn more about animal rights advocacy/veganism without seeing details of animal abuse?

I’d like to support advocacy for animals that is beyond my diet choice. For example: If there’s policy or lobbying for changes to factory farming. Or the arguments for veganism that address the environmental impacts of factory farming.

I can’t overstate how sensitive I am to animal cruelty/death and have been this way since I was a child. I don’t need to be convinced it’s happening, I know enough. But when I go to learn more to help it’s paired with information that makes me emotionally distressed and haunts me up to a week.

I’m not convinced that this is a reality I need to always look in the face to support the cause. I understand the tactic of showing how animals are tortured, but I’m of no use if I’m triggered into a wave of grief and distress.

If anyone has sources, or even relates to this and has advice I’d really appreciate. I’m in Canada so anything Canadian specific is a plus

Hey friends, I have a surgery upcoming and I would love to do some meal prep for about a week so I have food I can easily just pop in the microwave or reheat. Do you have any excellent casserole recipes or something that’s relatively easy to make but is good for meal prep and ideally has protein? Thanks so much for the help!

Looking at some books by Dr. Greger. I see that he has 2 out: "How not to die" and "How not to age" and soon a new one will be released "how not to hurt."

I am curious if anyone has read the first 2...are they that different that it is worth getting both? I imagine a lot of the information is relatively similar but maybe presented from a different perspective.

i just found out today by my doctor that i’m prediabetic and if i don’t change how i eat food it will develop into diabetes, im just 19 F (5,9) so its stressful, its been incredibly difficult to loose weight and about a year ago when i started hormonal BC i shot from 160 to 215 overtime

i know i cant blame it all on that, but i really want to change my life and choose veganism for multiple reasons. so, im just hoping for help and not shame for that.

i have to make an extreme shift in how i choose to eat food, i’ve already recently started being vegan. but again im just looking for if it’s shown results for other prediabetic people. im wondering if anyone else has become vegan to help with this? and those results.

so far all the research i’ve done has been really positive!