League Just rebuild everything from scratch, the rot is already too much that replace a part or two won't do anything and some long rant if you want to read
Just rebuild the team from scratch, I would say that this whole team aside from the coaching staff and maybe Vulcan (he is good but his mental is clearly weak), the rest need to go. I actually don't think it's the coaches faults for bad draft since yeah there are some iffy draft but I don't think it's 100% their input. Imo, the reason that this team can't for the love of god play any deadball or easy to play comp is because the veteran presence in this team (Blaber) genuinely don't know how to play any other way. Like, the draft that I seen from Dom and Yamato is better than our past coaches and have more nuance but if we look at it at the core, it's still the same strong early game draft that fit how our veterans want to play the game. So, if changing coaches and even changing multiple players only result in these comps that fit the essence of how our veterans want to play, I actually think we need to get rid of them and start from scratch. Players like Jojo and Berserker moving away from our team and they suddenly are able to play new picks that we won't ever see them picking in Cloud9 and I don't think that's because the coaches telling them to do so and more of we aren't willing to play into these strength.
The veterans on this team legit have the worst mental and understanding of the game, they want to play aggressive but they never press their lead or hand check to balloon the lead or play safe to maintain it and keep picking the most random angle to throw away this lead. They always complicated their gameplan with high execution drafts idea (early game comp with extremely low damage or fall off extremely hard) despite them being so risk averse after 20 minutes that they always give their opponents angle to comeback. I legit never see a team play so badly with lead that they can't end with giga wincon the way C9 play. The fact that they can only play early game comp (that sometimes even have low damage) to stomp lane and have a weak mental mean that any team that pick a deadball comp against them will win eventually due to we can't accelerate/close out our lead due to random throw. Furia shows that perfectly today, and no, Furia is a shit team that can't even beat a team full of rookies from VCS, this Cloud9 team is just beyond dogshit with their weak mental.
Watch how a team full of kids like MVKE dismantling this Furia just by playing to hand check and don't worry about a single thing and they clapped this shitty Furia team 3-0 while we struggling to even win a game. Like why care about good macro when your opposition is dogshit just plain and simple draft good scaling and handcheck them. This tendency of overcomplication with both drafts and how to play the game is why everyone know that to counter C9 just pick a pure deadball comp and they will rollover due to the weak mental of our vets. NRG, SR, 100T, and now Furia has prove that what the haters (which including me) has been saying for years are true. Like, I don't know how Kratos, an extremely shit top and I know because I'm Vietnamese American and watch LCP, can goomba stomp this dogshit Guigo and we keep drafting meta toplaners for our carry top just for him to fold to Guigo because the meta picks that we pick can't stomp lane and the rest of the team also can't carry for shit.
Team need to rebuild because players like Thanatos and Loki has good mechanic but they don't have what it takes to get to the next step while veterans like Blaber and Tactical just look like pure ass. Considering the lack of good native jungler, I don't even mind if we just straight up import a jungle and use native toplaner like Srtty because at least with a middling top, we can still play weakside but with jungler like Blaber or carry like Tactical, we legit can't do anything because they are just bad rn. Idk which native mid or adc are available but if we import for one of them aside from jungle, we need someone that is extremely clutch or has potential for that. I don't know which player will be a good fit but we could considered players like About, Karis, Zest (if we can get a native mid), Calix, Zinie (raw but potential is there) are some potential players for our carry roles (adc/mid) and for jungler, if we can't get Gryffinn, try to use new guy like Yuuji or import someone with potential like Vincenzo, Painter or proven jungler like Raptor or Croco and use native players for the rest of the role. That's all that I can think of and thanks for reading this long post.
Edited: Added Zamudo and Horder to the pool of native top
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u/Getsukie 3h ago edited 3h ago
I don't totally agree with you. The draft was fineplus, a draft isn't 100% on the coaches it comes down to the players' ability to perform on the champions they picked. I think three players on C9 need to go. Tactical is winning almost every 2v2 bot lane matchup, but he can't translate that gold into a win, and he still makes rookie mistakes. People always blame 'draft gap' on the coaches, but C9 literally lost multiple games where they had winning lanes with massive gold leads. How is that on the coaching staff?
I believe the best approach C9 could take right now is keeping Yamato with IDW as an assistant coach dropping the rest of the roster except Vulcan, and giving Dylan Falco whatever money he asks for to rebuild the team. Honestly, Blaber is overhyped I've never seen that spark in him to perma carry and deliver like Inspired. Even G2's new rookie junglers have had more impact than his whole career.
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u/AnaShie 3h ago
Draft is fine if only that we ignore the fact that C9 is just not a good team and are not a Korean team/TL/Lyon/G2 which we aren't is my point. Give this draft to these teams and the lead we have to them and they shitstomp the whole game because there are never any chance to comeback. Give this draft to C9 and the lead to C9 and we will struggle to take or setup objectives/push our lead/or even win fight with the massive lead. This is why bad team always went for deadball comps, they don't think they are good and they have enough self awareness to pick these comps for the easy wins. I don't know how the veterans on our team don't know how to play these deadball comp or easy to play comp but it's always coming back to bite us in the ass because we keep picking these high execution comp that we clearly aren't able to play and if we pick a scaling comp, we will fuck up eventually because we always fight random angle that I don't even think we will even survive to a late game.
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u/polikuji09 3h ago
I mean no way Yamato stays. It's imo been pretty clear Yamato only came to do Dom a solid since Dom needed help.
I hope Dom stays but even he's doubtful cause that's another year committed to essentially losing what he could make streaming for a smaller salary.
I do agree Dylan Falco would be an obvious choice though with Dom helping with draft etc.
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u/Getsukie 3h ago
True, Yamato was honestly thinking about retiring anyway, but this roster just completely cooked him before he even got the chance to yikes.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
Why not Vulcan?
Why NOT Vulcan? Why does he get to stay.
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u/Getsukie 3h ago
The bigger question is: why has Blaber stayed all these years, and why was this roster constructed in the first place? Almost everyone on the team is making rookie-level mistakes except for Vulcan.
Having bad stats or a rough record doesn't automatically make someone a bad player, but look at Inspired he enables an entire team to succeed. Why can't any of C9's core do the same? If a player can't elevate their team after this long, it's time to move on.
Honestly, if C9 kicks Vulcan, any future roster they build will get completely cooked. There is allegedly no one available who can actually replace him unless they manage to import an LCK support and even then, it'd probably turn into another SwordArt situation with TSM where a World Champion comes over and fails to succeed.
The only GOAT tier World Champion support who came to NA and actually maintained that impact is CoreJJ. He’s literally the core of Liquid in the exact same way Inspired is for his team, and that kind of success in LCS is extremely rare to keep up. Impact won some but he can't do it anymore.
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u/polikuji09 3h ago
I mean on why can't people be like inspired. Because players like that are hard to come by? You need a decent player with insane game knowledge and pressure resistance that ALSO speaks English to communicate in LCS.
Only examples i can think of are Inspired and CoreJJ.
Unironcially probably the closest player in LCS to that is probably Vulcan. Impact before but Impact is Giga washed mechanically
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u/Getsukie 3h ago
Inspired, CoreJJ, Doublelift, Bjergsen, Hai, Impact, Jensen the list goes on, including Reignover and Huni. Honestly, even players like Yike or Skewmond could reach an Inspired level impact if they joined a top LCS team.
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u/polikuji09 3h ago
Doublelift and Bjergsens both essentially played their entire careers in as close to all star rosters built for them, I guess DL got teams out of relegation but that's different is argue as that's simply elevating a team to beat the other bottom of the bottom. Jensen had pop off moments to carry games (just like Vulcan has on playmaking supports) but he's not remotely what you're arguing. Hai and impact I agree.
And even if I gave you bjerg DL and Jensen you still had to pull from all of LCS history to find 8 players to meet your lofty MVP expectations.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
Vulcan hasn't made internationals (real internationals) in 4 years.
The team will be better off without him.
When the team wins, support looks good. When the team loses, people blame other roles first. So bad support is always overlooked. He is getting a free paycheck AND costing us games.
The best benefit would be sending him to a top team to crash them. (But I doubt Berserker wants to lose with Vulcan again).
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u/Getsukie 3h ago
Prob he get a S team if C9 kick him anyway is win win situation. if you want him to be kicked.
but even tho if he get kicked C9 will still same as much now or even worst2
u/Steven_Crank 3h ago
Because he is one of the regions best supports a native player and was mvp one split ago?
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
And?
When was the last time he won something with a team?
What was his last good result outside of the regular season?
You guys keep giving him passes because Support is an easy role to not look bad on.
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u/polikuji09 3h ago
I mean...what teams has he played on? You put chovy on Dignitas and they likely still lose LCS. Obviously extreme example (Vulcan isn't as good as chovy and his Vulcans rosters are better then Dig) but you get the pointm
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
I literally posted his entire play history.
Clutch Gaming - a bad team but All Pro ADC. They went to worlds.
Cloud 9 with Perkz went to MSI and Worlds.
Joined 3rd place EG with new Inspired, Jojopyun.
Went to MSI and Worlds......
EG with Ssumday (1st All Pro) and FBI (2nd place team) crash out in Spring.
FQ with Prince (1st place regular season) crash out to 9th place with Vulcan.
Cloud 9 (1st place regular season before Vulcan) crash out not qualifying with Jojopyun and Berserker.
2025 Cloud 9 lose with Zven and Loki.
2026 Cloud 9 lose with Loki and Tactical.
Sure many of his losses are recent C9 losses. But his wins have always been with strong teammates around him. Why is this "star MVP support" not elevating his team when other star players can.
His history and name is carrying him, but he has been
badnot good for along time.3
u/polikuji09 3h ago
I mean you just admitted clutch he had shit teammates. C9 stint he played well in for that first stint.
His FQ squad after that was that disgustingly constructed prince Vicla experiment where spica was playing like trash. No support is elevating that.
And wasn't the other EG squad the one after the massive internal issues?
Like idk what other support does the impact you're expecting from vulcan?
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u/Steven_Crank 3h ago
You are arguing with a child, who creates his own Vulcan hate watch threads. Better to save your energy mate haha.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
If you look at the Prince roster - with Spica they were 1st in regular Spring. In Summer, both Winsome and Eyla had better team win percentages than Vulcan. If they never brought Vulcan in, they would have at least qualified for playoffs. Vulcan had a negative win percent with them.
The other EG squad literally poached the best players from the next best team. Internal issues or not, the roster was constructed for wins. And when the roster imploded, Jojopyun went on to carry it by himself to playoffs.
Vulcan never carries anything. He gets carried.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 3h ago
Vulcan has not qualified for an international event since 2022 with Danny.
He has failed with a MVP Prince roster.
He has failed with an MVP Berserker roster.
He has failed with an MVP Jojopyun roster.
He just fails.
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u/polikuji09 4h ago
I mean I'd be fine with keeping Dom, Vulcan, Thanatos and Loki.
Under Dom the team objectively improved, their sidelaning got bounds better and they almost always won drafts.
Loki and Thanatos I think show they're mechanically very skilled and i think when they grief it's mostly them trying to overplay to fix a bad state.
I like Blaber but I think it's a situation that both the player and the environment has run it's course. I can even see him joining another team and doing well but I think the combination of him and C9 just has too much baggage that adds to the pressure of choking. I don't think this tournament is even on him at all but I think it's time regardless.
And Tactical..I mean I understand and agree with the swap for zven for skill reason but imo he was always a bandaid fix. He was already known for being a choker under pressure and he showed it again today. In a position like adc where you're expected to be the insurance can't have him flashing in at 5 hp, missing ziggs ult on stunned targets and getting caught on repeat in bronze level rotations multiple games in a row. And that's in the pressure of playing.....In the same arena they're used to playing in...