r/Cloud9 • u/ARandomChicken69 • 5h ago

League Does Loki not have the same weakness as APA?

The whole reason we supposedly got Loki over APA is that he can play both melees and mages but looking at his play and our draft, it looks like he can only play melees.

And don’t get me wrong Loki is MILES better at champions like Yone/Locke/Sylas/Akali than APA.

But Loki still makes bad mistakes on those champions and ends up looking invisible vs better laners.

APA at least brings his macro. Loki’s “strength” seems to disappear when faced with real competition.

I just don’t understand why we felt we needed a change at mid when we could’ve kept APA/Blaber/Vulcan and then play around Tactical.

He’s a beast mechanically so give him the tools to the kingdom with APA on champions like Ryze/Taliyah/TF/Anivia/Ori/Cassio/Viktor and just defend him.

Instead we put him on Ziggs and pray that Loki/Thanatos carry which just doesn’t seem to work. And part of that is on Tactical since it seems like he’s not a great Ziggs but then why are we drafting it for him?

17 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

20 comments sorted by

11

u/thatanimeguy145 4h ago

Apa was never a good fit on C9 and Loki couldn't grow fast enough when it mattered. I love loki but he shouldn't be on this team either. It needs a almost full wipe

5

u/QuietRedditorATX 4h ago

Weren't they first when he first joined. And that was with baddy Zven.

7

u/ARandomChicken69 4h ago

You say that like C9 didn’t go undefeated in the regular season with APA.

Our biggest issue the entire Fall was our macro and we never could coach Loki up to that level. Maybe we needed Blaber/Vulcan to take over more shot calling duties but APA seemed pretty decent at it. Maybe it’s the coaches fault for not stressing the importance of good comms to Thanatos/Loki.

I’m defending APA since I feel like he gets hated on too much relative to the skills he brings.

He’s not the best mechanically but I find it rare that he plays a fight or lane so badly he loses the game.

And if that’s Loki’s only supposed strength then he’s played multiple fights badly enough to lose them so it’s not even a point in his favor.

5

u/Alchemic_AUS 4h ago

As soon as teams played together for more then a split apa fell of a cliff, they were fine on average but the ceiling was nowhere near being competitive with Lyon and tl. The revisionism on apa is crazy it’s better to be 3rd and coin flippy vs the top 2 teams with loki then not even top3 with apa

1

u/YokoDk 2h ago

They were top 3 every time with APA....

2

u/thatanimeguy145 4h ago

It was fake it was always fake. They had a team with the most returning players. Apa could fit in and not rock the boat enough. The ceiling was low and the floor was high. It was exposed in spring once other teams had more time together and get there shit together as we saw with liquid and lyon. Once we made changes at head coach and players we saw us compete but we made those changes to late to win. Apa will play in lcs or cblol but he was never good enough for what this team needed to win lcs and do well internationally. I have my bias but its what I saw.

3

u/ARandomChicken69 4h ago

And you think Loki was the solution? We lost the LCS and internationals with him so what was the point?

We lost to TL and Lyon in both splits so this seems like we went from third to third.

Claiming APA was never a good fit just seems weird to me given that Loki had literally zero impact on where we finished or how we performed.

If anything Loki hampered us since the entire team now has to adapt to a new playstyle around melee mids and taking over shot calling duties that APA would’ve had. Theoretically, C9 could’ve grown with just the Tactical change(obviously wouldn’t change the fact that tactical griefed some late game team fights).

1

u/thatanimeguy145 4h ago edited 2h ago

No but what they could do it was a bandaid. It was going into summer spilt. They got a player they thought could scale and make worlds and had some experience with the team. Which loki did. Apa wouldnt have made the difference. They never beat lyon in the playoffs when it matters with apa on the roster never. With how dead the team looked at the end of spring bringing in a new adc would have done nothing. They took a chance and made worlds its the best patch up job they could do. The biggest mistake was not blowing it up at the end of last year.

2

u/YokoDk 2h ago

They beat lion both splits with APA ...

0

u/thatanimeguy145 2h ago

In the regular which we seen how lyon takes seriously. Also winter doesn't matter as they were just starting to play together.

3

u/YokoDk 2h ago

You said "they never beat Lyon with APA on the roster never" then you admit they beat them twice...

0

u/thatanimeguy145 2h ago

Let me edit the comment to say in playoffs. Good catch. Doesn't change much but sure

3

u/YokoDk 2h ago

They technically didn't beat Lyon in playoffs when it mattered with Loki either...

•

u/SillyOyx 40m ago

IMO. C9 has a big issue with sort of not doing anything with their goal leads. They turtle and stack drakes. Not only that they fall apart under pressure.

My view on the game, especially in game 4 vs furia is that Loki was one of the few players actively trying to make things happen on the map. Did he make mistakes? ABSOLUTELY, the whole team did. However, I’d much rather have a player who is actively trying to make things work, has good mechanics, and can hopefully learn better macro over time with proper coaching. I don’t think Loki should be let go automatically. I thought other players were much bigger issues.

3

u/Waztacu 3h ago

Apa would never shit the bed on stage like Loki did this weekend , don’t fool yourself

3

u/ltwj 2h ago

you're right considering it would've been SR on that stage had Apa stayed

1

u/scrappydoomd 1h ago

Bull. That's complete cope you are telling yourself. How many times did SR beat C9 when APA was on the team?

2

u/AnikiSmashFSP 3h ago

I would bet money that APA and Blaber just didn't agree on the game and descision making and C9 bet on the wrong horse

0

u/thatanimeguy145 2h ago

I think both horses are bad at calling the game and Vulcan was the guy. With the available options they replaced apa because they couldn't find a jungle for summer

1

u/red--dead 1h ago

Seems like you’re trading better macro for better mechanics and a different champ pool.