r/leagueoflegends • u/dvtyrsnp • Sep 22 '23
Getting through the Worlds Swiss Stage without ever beating LPL/LCK
Now that we have left behind the Group Stage in favor of a Swiss Stage for Worlds I felt like examining how likely it was for NA/EU to make it out and into the Knockout Stage. I set up a project to simulate the course of potential Swiss brackets.
Swiss Rules:
- The first round is paired on region and seed. A team cannot play a team from the same region. Pool 1 teams play Pool 4 teams and Pool 2 teams play Pool 3 teams.
- From the second round on: teams with the same record are paired against each other randomly.
- A team is immediately qualified when they reach three wins. A team is immediately eliminated when they reach three losses.
- No rematches inside the Swiss stage. A team cannot play the same team twice.
So what if a LCS/LEC team can just never beat an LPL/LCK team?
If we quit hopium cold turkey - what are the odds the West sneaks through?
Assumptions:
- GG and PSG emerge from the Play-In stage. These don't really matter as long as GG/BDS make it out. (sorry please don't get mad GG are just slight favorites right now)
- LCS/LEC teams will always lose to an LPL/LCK team.
- Specific outcomes of LCS vs. LEC matches and LPL vs. LCK matches don't really matter from this perspective.
- PSG will always lose. (sorry again)
Results:
After 10,000,000 iterations:
In 64.5% of iterations, at least one LCS/LEC team gets three wins.
In 1.0% of iterations, at least two LCS/LEC teams get three wins.
In .00008% of iterations, three LCS/LEC teams get three wins.
----------------------------------------------------
Example
The Doctor Strange scenario where three teams make it out:
Round 1
GEN > WBG, JDG > DK, G2 > GG, NRG > PSG, LNG > T1, KT > BLG, FNC > TL, C9 > MAD
Round 2
JDG > LNG, G2 > C9, GEN > NRG, KT > FNC, T1 > BLG, GG > PSG, WBG > DK, MAD > TL
Round 3
JDG > KT, GEN > G2, T1 > C9, MAD > GG, LNG > WBG, NRG > FNC, BLG > DK, TL > PSG
Round 4
NRG > MAD, KT > T1, LNG > G2, FNC > GG, WBG > BLG, C9 > TL (NRG advance)
Round 5
T1 > WBG, G2 > MAD, FNC > C9 (G2, FNC advance)
----------------------------------------------------
The best hope for the West is interestingly that the West plays each other as much as possible and the East plays each other as much as possible. Since you always need to beat a 2-win team to advance, you want there to be as many beatable teams as possible collecting wins.
Also interestingly, because of the first round region restriction, G2 and NRG are rooting against their own region in the Worlds Qualifying Series. Since you can't play against your own region in the first round, a same-region team in pool 4 increases their chances of being paired against an Eastern team.
If we want to consider possibilities where the West can beat the East it gets much more complicated. This isn't out of the question; we see weird things happen every Worlds. Using my own team rating system (definitely not optimal since it's a tough problem to tackle) that 64.5% increases to ~85% for a single Western team making it out and ~12% for two Western teams. G2 and NRG get big boosts for being pool 1 teams because of the increased chance to play against the play-in teams.
So in this new format the West still has a really good chance of getting an opportunity to get 3-0'd in quarterfinals.
66
u/baelkie DNF 2026 please be human | Kiin Team Sep 22 '23
can someone calculate the chances of KT getting eliminated in swiss stage without facing a non LCK/LPL team?
65
18
u/crysomore Kiin Team | Lehends/Cuzz apologist Sep 22 '23
Kiin bout to get trauma from Big Dicorice again
4
u/Snomankid999 Sep 22 '23
I need another Ornn Baron Steal by Kiin Daddy : Licorice
2
u/girlmarth peanut, beryl, showmaker Sep 22 '23
I think Licorice is gonna run into trouble if he expects Stixxay to booty blast his opponent the way Sneaky did back then
2
u/Jozoz Oct 16 '23
They already drew BLG lol. It's happening.
2
u/baelkie DNF 2026 please be human | Kiin Team Oct 16 '23
dw i have faith in the boys to narrowly beat BLG and immediately draw a JDG who speed ran BDS in 16 minutes
38
u/spazzxxcc12 Sep 22 '23
fun fact: since worlds inception there hasn’t been a year where a western team hasn’t made it to groups.
14
u/Pelagius_Hipbone EUPHORIA I don’t like FNC Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 22 '23
EU doing an atlas cosplay for the west in this example
2
-12
u/Rich_Housing971 Sep 22 '23
fun fact: since worlds inception there hasn't been a year where a western team hasn't made it to Worlds.
67
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
Very interesting read. This looks controversial on paper but I feel in practice would be reasonable. West vs West and East vs East games would be hype, and even given the gap between regions if one western team beats all the other western teams and one eastern team loses to all other eastern teams but they never play each other you could very easily argue the western team is better.
In reality I don't think the situation for the West will be as bleak as MSI. With Asian games I feel at least one of the teams will come back mental boom/have a bad read on the meta and end up dropping a game. We shall know in just a few weeks time.
34
u/dvtyrsnp Sep 22 '23
As hard as this subreddit would probably meme if this happened, I agree that a lot NA vs. EU matches would be really hype. We missed out on it at MSI and people were really disappointed
We'll probably snag some games off the Eastern teams, and there's always the obligatory LPL boom team.
23
Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 22 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/StartsofNights Sep 22 '23
Yeah hard agree, there always one lpl hard flopping
11
Sep 22 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
Pre 2018 though the LPL was generally considered to be a lot worse than the LCK and much closer to that of EU and NA.
It is kinda wild that the LPL has always been in the conversation for the best region in the world since 2018, but has had a team miss knockouts every year. Meanwhile the LCK hasn't had one team miss since 2018.
3
u/Tiferod1 Sep 22 '23
In 2015 LGD was one of the favorite, clearly on the level of LCK, as they had easily beaten EDG who won MSI.
4
u/TheGhoulKhz All Hail Bdd Sep 23 '23
we dont talk about League's Greatest Disappointment unless it is to trash talk TSM
2
u/Jiggamanz Sep 23 '23
I would say 2016 and 2015 are really the only years LPL was shit, and 2015 was very shocking. LPL in 2017 was pretty strong all things considered. Easily the 2nd best region and, if it weren't for Faker being an absolute god against RNG, RNG vs SSG would have been an insanely interesting series, given RNG destroyed them in groups.
Plus, WE were the only squad to actually take a game off Samsung in the playoffs (Samsung literally 3-0ed every single Korean team with Ambition/Ruler in the core roster from the gauntlet onwards)
3-0 vs Afreeca* (Since Ambition stepped in)
3-0 vs KT
3-0 vs LZ
3-0 vs SKT
16
u/Jozoz Sep 22 '23
even given the gap between regions if one western team beats all the other western teams and one eastern team loses to all other eastern teams but they never play each other you could very easily argue the western team is better.
That's a bit of a reach...
2
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
I'll give a realistic scenario:
G2 opens vs GGS and wins then plays NRG and wins, then plays T1 to move on but loses, then plays Fnatic and wins.
Weibo plays GenG to open and loses, then plays BLG and loses, then plays D+ and loses 0-3. Would you really say it's a reach to say G2 is the better team?
Maybe we get some nightmare scenario where JDG plays the hardest schedule ever and goes 2-3 while Fnatic plays only the LCS and PSG and goes 3-2 in which case the eastern team would seem much better but I doubt that's the reality we will see.
7
u/TharkunOakenshield Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 22 '23
I think that based on your specific scenario, we could not conclude who’s the better team between Weibo and G2.
But based on the last few years… Weibo would likely still be better in a Bo5 unless their 0-3 comes from a complete collapse.I definitely would not be comfortable saying that G2 would be favourites in a 5 game series against Weibo, even in that scenario.
And that’s coming from an EU/G2 fan.
1
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
Maybe I'm the one high on hopium but I think you are too pessimistic. G2 and Caps/MikyX have won an international Bo5 more recently than anyone on Weibo besides Xiaohu. G2 looked better against GenG at MSI than most of the LCK this year Dplus included. Weibo was incredibly inconsistent this year and dropped games and series to some of the worst teams in the LPL. They qualified for worlds without having to play JDG or BLG.
I think the DRX miracle run has convinced people that the 4 seeds in each region are just as good and completely unstoppable as the best teams in each region but that isn't the case. I would take G2 over WBG in a Bo5 right now, not even considering the hypothetical results.
7
u/TharkunOakenshield Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 23 '23
Oh Weibo isn’t consistent at all or generally amazing, I’ll definitely agree to that.
I unfortunately just don’t think EU is either, even at the very top (which is just G2 these days).
I find too many mistakes in G2’s play for that, which shouldn’t happen against the much weaker opponents that they face compared to Weibo.Don’t get me wrong I can see G2 win that Bo5. But I wouldn’t call them favourites personally.
Anyway, we’ll see in a few weeks! I sure hope I’m wrong
1
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
Fair assumption, and we shall see in a few weeks (well unless we get the whole point of this thread and actually don't see because they only play western teams.
7
u/Lin_Huichi Sep 22 '23
TBF 2021 saw LNG 4th seed go even with MAD Lions 1st seed, I think that shocked a lot of EU fans so its not just DRX. WBG beat JDG in the regular season spring and summer and also went 5 games vs LNG who were second in playoffs.
Definitely a bit coinflippy but it's part of their flare I guess. They should not be underestimated the potential is there and LPL competition is a lot harder than LEC. I expect a few thrown games and hard ints from the team but I don't think G2 win. Well unless WBG run it down a lot. Yeah idk with that team.
1
u/Haen24 Oct 06 '23
This is very far from a realistic scenario if we assume that a western team always loses against an eastern team. It would require the whole first round to be KR vs China and EU vs NA. Then both DK an Weibo has to lose 2nd round (meaning the 2nd round lower bracket is also EAST vs EAST/WEST vs WEST). Then Weibo has to roll DK in a 0-2 match. Additionally we assume G2 rolls a western team in both round 2 and a 2-1/2-2 match. It IS possible but you cannot say it's not far-fetched.
And if we assume that east does not always lose against the west then the conversation is useless as we can just say that G2 wins against Weibo which is the most probable matchup for west to win in
1
18
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
Hard disagree.
If the west get through to quarters by only beating the west and the east fail because they only play the east, then your argument is full of *.
Argument would hold weight if the regions were roughly on the same level but that's not the case.
11
u/Lin_Huichi Sep 22 '23
Especially since 4th seeds have shown from past worlds to be able to match 1st seeds (so strongest west team) like MAD vs LNG or DRX vs RGE.
2
u/Jiggamanz Sep 23 '23
The problem with the swiss system in CSGO is that, first of all it will never go according to plan. The initial seeding is really good and on point, but problems begin to surface once the re-seeding occurs between rounds. If every higher seeded team wins all their games, there are no issues, but that never happens. There is always an upset or two, which can really fuck the whole system up
For instance, there is a pretty good chance that teams like JDG and GEN, should they both lose their opening bo1s, they are pretty likely to meet in round 2 or 3, and still not advance. I suppose it depends on how riot will determine the seeding, but in CSGO this was a big turn off for swiss.
1
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
So in these scenarios where a western team moves on without playing an eastern team that would mean the eastern team lost to all other eastern teams.
If the world's knockouts are supposed to be the 8 teams most likely to win world's, and let's say Weibo absolutely sprints it and loses 0-3 to all eastern teams. Meanwhile G2 rips through three western teams but drops a game to T1 and finishes 3-1, can you really argue the 0-3 team was more likely to win the tournament?
I mean with the gap being so big I think you could argue that but for these scenarios to work you aren't really getting something like JDG playing 5 games vs the east and failing to move on 3-2 while Fnatic played only the LCS and PSG. The eastern team that misses in this scenario is like missing because they lost 0-3 or 1-3.
1
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
If you're assuming that WBG go 0-1, 0-1 then 0-2 in a best of 3 then sure.
But the chances of G2 taking a game of the east in a best of 3 is lower than WBG not taking a single game so that argument is just you arguing hypothethicals.
In a non copium/hopium way(as a LCK fan), WBG are more likely to win worlds than G2 are.
1
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
At this very moment, I would say WBG is more likely to win worlds than G2 (although I would both their odds at an extremely low %).
In these 65% of scenarios where a Western team moves on without playing an Eastern team, most of those would include one Eastern team having an exceptionally poor performance like going 0-3 or maybe only beating GGS/BDS or PSG.
I also think you underrate G2's ability to win or take a game vs an Eastern team. G2 did take a game off of GenG at MSI, and that was a G2 that was in the middle of a slump and in its worst form of the year.
-6
Sep 22 '23
[deleted]
2
u/ob_knoxious Sep 22 '23
If you look at the NBA subreddit right now the vast majority of people are talking about not the NBA champion but a team that lost in the second round. The take that people only care about the champion and there is nothing interesting in sports except for the final champion is not a mainstream opinion.
But even if we go by your argument, then why does it matter? If this eastern team loses to every other eastern team they are obviously not winning world's. And since no one cares about anything other than the championship and no one is going to remember in 5 years who the 8th best team at this tournament was why does it matter that a western team moves on instead of an eastern team?
Superstition would be saying "One LPL team will mental boom because the LPL has one team that booms every year." It's speculation but there is actual logic behind it other than the superstition that one LPL team will fail just because.
And nowhere did I say western teams were immune to this. I fully expect at least two western teams to be completely mental boomed. I would not be surprised at all if MAD lost to PSG or GGS/BDS ended up choking the play-in.
1
u/Lin_Huichi Sep 22 '23
Expectations for the regions are different. An LPL team dropping in quarters is meh, it happens all the time. But if NA make quarters it's a big talking point because they never usually make quarters.
80
u/nusskn4cker Sep 22 '23
In 64.5% of iterations, at least one LCS/LEC team gets three wins.
That is so disgusting.
35
u/oioioi9537 Sep 22 '23
Anyone who watched csgo knows that the swiss system is good for the viewers but not necessarily from a purely competitive standpoint
8
u/PattuX but jg main climbing on supp Oct 05 '23
I think it's fine. Assuming there would be some deterministic picking order (i.e., team #1 always wins, team #2 always wins except against team #1 etc) the top 4 are mathematically always guaranteed to advance. Statistically, there is a very high chance that the top 6 advance. And how much competitiveness are we really gonna lose if the last two QF final teams are #9 and #10 instead of #7 and #8?
56
u/KaiserJustice Sep 22 '23
Usually that’s G2 lol
35
u/nusskn4cker Sep 22 '23
G2 again is the most likely, yeah. But it's genuinely disgusting to me that chances are that high for a Western team to qualify without winning a match against LCK/LPL.
Like if G2 beat an Eastern team in the bo3 to qualify fair play. But FNC sneaking through despite only winning against NA teams would be an abomination.
14
u/PeanutButterPorpoise Flairs are limited to 2 emotes. Sep 22 '23
At least knockout stage is seeded by Swiss record so a team that does that is more likely to just draw JDG.
12
u/BrianC_ Sep 22 '23
That makes it worse, honestly. We have to watch them play 7-11 games just to get destroyed by JDG.
12
u/NaturalTap9567 Sep 22 '23
Has there ever been a group stage where 1 western team didn't get through. I don't think it's that big a deal
3
u/KKilikk Faker JKL VIT Naak Nako Sep 22 '23
There always was a western that beat an eastern team to make knocks out though right? (just a guess)
2
u/NaturalTap9567 Sep 22 '23
Yeah but in this scenario I bet one of the teams that won't face an eastern team will play a team that beat an Eastern team
1
12
u/KaiserJustice Sep 22 '23
Technically you could say the same about an eastern team getting through without beating a western team.
Granted I think eastern have a good 80% to beat most western teams, some western teams tend to have good matchups against some eastern (IE like MAD agains SKT back in the day or G2 most of 2019)
26
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
In a vacuum yes you could say that
But when the east are so much better than the west, nobody would really care since they're beating better teams.
That argument holds more weight if all 4 major regions are roughly on the same level which hasn't ever been the case.
1
3
Sep 22 '23
MAD vs SKT when?
13
1
u/KaiserJustice Sep 22 '23
Years and years ago lol
3
Sep 22 '23
MAD never played SKT until this MSI iirc... unless you mean Splyce in 2019
3
u/KaiserJustice Sep 22 '23
i did a little digging and I meant Misfits when they took 2 games in a row against them in the 2017 quarters. Even though Misfits lost, the games 4 and 5 were a lot closer than just complete stomps where a single teamfight there way would have changed the result of the game.
1
u/EducationalBalance99 Sep 22 '23
Your example of 2019 when eu was actually competitive. I’m talking eu winning msi, making final in 2018. Based on the past 2 year of international competition, eu is not that competitive with the east anymore.
1
u/KaiserJustice Sep 22 '23
Yeah but 2019 started out of nowhere, people didn’t think EU would take MSI or that it would be west vs west MSI finals or even that EU would make worlds finals twice.
I get the statistical improbability, I’m just saying I’m not counting out the possibility because crazy shit happens
0
u/EducationalBalance99 Sep 22 '23
It didn’t. Prior to 2019, eu was considered as good if not better than lpl internationally. Eu was literally in final 2018 bro. Compare eu internationally b4 2021 to after and u see a huge difference internationally.
3
u/Constantinch Sep 22 '23
In most cases that would also require these NA teams to defeat eastern teams. It's impossible for any team to advance against teams that don't win against anyone else.
3
1
u/Jiggamanz Sep 23 '23
Do we know how Riot are going to manage the seeding of the groups? Like, if we look at it from the pool 1 perspective, are they going to make GENG play JDG if both teams are 2-0, and G2 vs NRG if both teams are 2-0? Is that the predetermined notion?
Becuase if it's like, JDG vs G2 and GENG vs NRG, then that 64.5% goes down to 0, unless JDG/GENG lose a bo1 to another eastern team (which is waaaaaay more likely than them losing a bo3 to g2 or even an eastern team for that matter).
1
u/Pelagius_Hipbone EUPHORIA I don’t like FNC Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 22 '23
Why? It’s only “disgusting ” because LEC/LCS are worse. On its own that’s perfectly fine
-8
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
Luckily you're banking on east vs east in all three rounds for that to happen, and I'm praying it doesn't.
Would be shit for worlds if you have a good team get fucked because they play other good teams then a non top 8 team gets through because they played weak teams.
3
Sep 22 '23
I mean, with maybe one or two exceptions the old Worlds format was very prone to groups of death/life and we've seen top 8 teams get stuck in groups many times in the past, it wouldn't be new to this format
-3
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
That was largely because of the 3 pool system.
When we moved to a 4 pool system, groups of deaths/life basically didn't exist.
34
u/Satan_su Sep 22 '23
Ngl I don't understand being pressed about Western teams qualifying for knockouts without beating any Eastern team. If they're really that bad, they'll get smashed in the quarterfinals. And the Eastern team whose spot they hypothetically took lost 3 matches in the Swiss stage itself, so they would've also got smashed by their opponent in the quarters.
7
u/Lin_Huichi Sep 22 '23
Yeah, it just keeps the hope up for next year if a Western gets out. But it doesnt really matter if DK or G2 lose 0-3 to JDG.
3
u/Andtise Oct 06 '23
wow, that's great! As a PhD, I'm curious about how you implement this simulation. Can you share the code, please?
6
u/Aequo3 Asheyy♥ Sep 22 '23
you forgot the yearly kr and cn team choking as one variable, can we get the algorithm updated pwease
3
u/ThebritishPoro Fan Because Of WoW Oct 06 '23
It's been a while since an LCK team choked. Most recent one I can remember is 2018 GenG.
2019 every LCK team topped their group.
2020 the only LCK team that didn't top their group came 2nd, behind the LPL 1st seed.
2021 the only LCK team that didn't top their group was HLE who weren't even expected to get out of groups but got out 2nd after playing a tiebreaker Vs RNG.
2022 the only LCK team that didn't top their group placed 2nd behind the LPL 1st seed after playing a tiebreaker.
In the past 4 world's 14/14 LCK teams have made it out of groups and 11/14 LCK teams have placed 1st in their group.
5
u/Jozoz Sep 22 '23
In 64.5% of iterations, at least one LCS/LEC team gets three wins.
Dear lord. Almost 2/3rds?
2
3
u/_Jetto_ Sep 22 '23
I’m glad they changed the format but no reason to Not just do IPL or ti bracket.
4
u/IAmWtff Sep 22 '23
All the people saying "it's disgusting" that an LEC/LCS team can get out without beating LPL/LCK? Are these people rooting for all LPL/LCK quarters? Variance is so important in a tournament to keep it exciting - what a load of bores to call this "disgusting".
8
Sep 22 '23
I think people have the assumption (which I do too) that any western team will get smashed in the quarters. That’s not variance, it kind of feels like a waste of a quarter slot
4
u/CityofCyn_ Oct 05 '23
then let's just stop inviting NA and EU teams to worlds then - it's clearly what you want at that point.
4
u/ThebritishPoro Fan Because Of WoW Oct 06 '23
They should have less seeds 100%.
With a recent track record that essentially boils down to "the EU first seed and nobody else gets out of groups", and their 4th seed fails to get through playins, and NA being NA, why are there still 7 western teams at worlds?
1
u/CityofCyn_ Oct 07 '23
idk, playin teams never come in serious to win, why do they get to come in?
please enlighten us how you want every worlds to just be KR/CN teams, LS viewer.
1
u/ThebritishPoro Fan Because Of WoW Oct 09 '23
Playin teams don't get to come in. That's why they don't get out of playins.
Your question literally answers itself.
2
3
u/FrancisDraike Sep 22 '23
How to make NA/UE teams access knockout stage when they don't have the level.
Very nice of Riot to helo them so much
1
u/Huge-Connection954 Sep 22 '23
I think its a cope take. Either way if you just beat NA or Eu 3 times odds are one of the teams along the way will have beaten an asian team. Getting out of swiss sounds cool on paper but if you get bodied 3-0 by the asian team in qtrs no one cares
5
u/Lildholdt Sep 23 '23
Except there is a 64,5% chance a western team makes it out, without any western team winning against an eastern team?
-3
-4
u/UdyrEnjoyer Sep 22 '23
The same country match prohibition should persist until Round 3, it is not ok for a team to qualify without playing a single major region team
6
u/Campbell_Jin Sep 22 '23
Could run into issues though.
Since there will be 4 teams that are 2-0, by round 3. If for example the LCS is just by far the strongest region and you get 3 or 4 in that 2-0 group, you would have to have NA teams play each other . (Same goes for if one region loses all their games)
3
u/UdyrEnjoyer Sep 22 '23
You are correct, until round 2 would be enough to prevent these scenarios then
-11
u/BrianC_ Sep 22 '23 edited Sep 22 '23
The more I actually look at the swiss format, the more I dislike it.
We will only get to see 4-5 games from the best 2 teams and 5-8 games from the 3rd~5th seed.
Meanwhile, the 6th-11th best teams will get somewhere between 7-11 broadcasted games. There are going to be some pretty shitty teams in that mix getting a lot of stage games. And, those games will also probably be the least meaningful because they're probably just going to get smashed by the top seeds.
19
u/UndeadMurky Sep 22 '23
At least it's different and they're trying. Feels good to have something new after 12 years
5
u/Azashiro Sep 22 '23
Nah, in this sub reddit you must complain about literally everything, nothing is good actually.
3
u/itsallabigshow So glad that Carlos is gone Sep 22 '23
This system makes it more likely that the best team is going to win. It doesn't guarantee the most games played by that team. And honestly I'm fine with that. If you're the best you get to watch the worse teams beat each other up to get the chance to challenge you.
5
u/ahritina Sep 22 '23
Swiss format without proper seeding is a worse format.
But you have people sucking it off when shit like this exists.
1
u/wefolas Sep 22 '23
If anyone’s backing in it’ll be MAD so you’re saying there’s a 65% chance MAD makes quarters?
1
u/tarotreebb Sep 22 '23
Well, according to my neighbour David, he would win at World's if it wasn't for his teammates in Solo Queue holding him down in Bronze. So my answer is David.
1
u/ARcade0827 Oct 10 '23
Without Assumption 4, what is the likelihood of PSG reaching the quarter-finals?
1
u/aat_ish Oct 16 '23
Can you re run the simulation again now that the first draw has been confirmed?
1
215
u/nickphunter Sep 22 '23
.00008% is going to be my new tagline for copium