The dreams with spiritual significance. A Pope finally standing up to evil regimes. Deaths and births in the family. I just wanted the people I had lost to not really be gone. Or just be at peace. Or just get through a family baptism without any religious trauma or spiritual manipulation.

Then I make yet more unpleasant discoveries. Not just historic, ongoing in other countries around the world.

Changes to law in my country that are already killing people.

The church has made it absolutely crystal clear that it sees me as disposable and my entire family's safety as optional.

Because a family being "the right shape" was always more important than any child's safety or wellbeing.

I can't believe I was so willing to forget the past. Forgive all the different types of harm whether they effected me personally or not, because I thought the church was finally going to do the right thing. Well, their refusal to repent for the harm they cause does not deserve forgiveness!

How can I make sure I never get manipulated into thinking I'm having a "spiritual awakening" again? (This cycle seems to repeat every decade for me.)

I'm 27 year old man looking to find some meaning in life and have been drawn toward religion. I'm someone who is drawn to Catholicism and has just started RCIA and I really enjoyed the first session. Everyone was really friendly and welcomed the many questions I had. However due to being a skeptic and a critical thinker, I now have my doubts due to finding this subreddit along with talking to other ex Catholics.

The rhetoric about the Catholic Church being a cult and indoctrinating it's followers is something I am concerned about as I greatly value personal autonomy and critical thinking to a certain extent. I have expressed to the RCIA team that I am agnostic and have merely started the program due to being interested and seeing what it is like. They have assured me that I can back out as late as a week before Easter which I found to be a relief. I find it difficult to understand that if that is the case, how can people claim the Church is a cult? Does it change after one gets their initiation sacraments at Easter and is harder to leave?

I feel like sticking with it with an open mind but also with caution due to what ex Catholics have said of their experience. I have prayed to God and whilst being skeptical of it, I have felt a pull to continue with the program and a feeling of love in my chest. I find this interesting that when I pray I sometimes feel something and other times I don't. On the other hand, I do feel like I may be talking to God but just doubting Him.

The skeptic in me tells me I'm just talking to myself and as a critical thinker, I also somewhat feel like I may be indoctrinating and brainwashing myself being around all these people that agree wholeheartedly and without question. Is that even possible?

I know this may sound all contradictory but I truly just want to make the best decision for myself. I don't want to end up converting then decide it isn't for me later in life. Any advice or experiences are welcome. Thank you!

I have a writing project and I’ve chosen to write about the idea of hell in Catholicism. Specifically, I’m looking for examples of peoples first memories/encounters of the idea of hell, or the most memorable ones, if they’re willing to share. I don’t need names or anything like that for example, “Sunday school in kindergarten” works just fine!

Thank you in advance!

I stopped practicing Catholicism around ten years ago, and outwardly comfortably identified myself as agnostic around 8 years ago.
I’ve kind of been going through some stuff for the last 2 years that has made me have to confront a lot about my past as well as my present. A large part of that has been active deconstruction. Part of that has been picking apart how Catholicism and specifically Catholic school from 6 to 18 shaped me.
Well, today in the midst of an intense wave from some changes, I was ruminating, and came to a shocking and kind of hilarious realization. It makes me sad, but it also made me laugh. There is a strange relief that came from it.
I think I have Daddy Issues. Or, if you kind of hate that term like I do, I have Attachment Issues stemming from a father figure. But not my actual dad. God.
I have Daddy Issues from God.
Issues with conditional worth, people-pleasing, compulsion to over-function, and a shamefully intense and humiliating desperation for approval from certain older male figures in my life, that crops up at the most unfortunate times.
I have a fulfilling and good relationship with my actual dad. We butt heads a lot because I’m a lot like him - and we have our grievances with one another just as any relationship does. And I’m aware one can still have attachment issues with a parent who loved them very much. But I was never able to nail down anything about our relationship that would create the issues I’ve noticed. And then it hit me. There is another father figure which I was extremely desperate to please in my life. One I feared. One I never felt I was ever able to fully satisfy. One who I craved constant validation from. And I never got it. so the loop continued. I don’t believe in God anymore - at least certainly not in any way that can be compared to the Catholic or Christian concept of god - but I still feel a residual need to get the approval I never did. So when I have older male bosses, family friends, coaches, professors, acquaintances, mutual friends, even people I see for services like a doctor - there is a part of me that cannot relax around them. That snaps into a state of immediately wanting approval. To be “good.” And I fear I am seeking it out now and it is ruining actual good relationships i have with men in my life that I genuinely care for and get along with, that I am realizing I frame this validation around.
There’s also other things i won’t get into here that lead me to this theory. I could probably go on forever.
I have a therapy appointment tomorrow. I’m interested and nervous to get into this.
I know I have already heard and I’m sure many of you have to, Christianity referred to and joked about in such a manner like this before. I have always rolled my eyes and admitted that yes, I have the classic shame issues and desperation for approval from authority - but I didn’t realize how deep it went until today, nor did I realize the pattern of behavior it was creating.

I have my kairos retreat coming up for my high school and I’m actually panicking about it. Obviously everything is supposed to be a secret but from some things I’ve heard around my school and from searching online I know some of the details.

I know it involves largely around trauma dumping and letters. I’m not as concerned about the trauma dumping, I can control what I choose to share (though I know they create an environment where if you’re not sharing things it’s looked down upon). But it’s the letters I’m more scared of, I know a lot of schools have them read aloud to the entire class. Is this the case for everyone who received letters on kairos? The thought of having my personal information shared to my entire class with me having no control over it really scares me, and I don’t necessarily trust my parents and think they definitely could overshare in the letter. I’d feel much more comfortable if the letters were something we could read in private.

I just feel so weird about this whole thing, the more I read the more manipulate and cult like kairos seems

So yall in like an hour or so im going to an event with my religious family at their church to ask the priest literally anything. I'm struggling to find some questions to ask can yall give me some ideas.

(I know the priest since I was young and I will say he's a nice guy even accepting of lgbtq people which is rare in my experience. I left the church for other reasons and decided to go as im a curious person.)

edit: I'll do my best to ask the questions ill be leaving soon

Final Edit: First off there was a limit to one question and it was anonymous from a box. Secondly there was young children there which I didnt know before going which made me nervous asking some of the questions given to me in the comments. It was alot more of a qna than anything like one of the questions is why he doesn't wear socks or somthing.

Though I decided to ask about his personal opinions on the lgbtq and his opinions on it(which to my knowledge he never spoke publicly about before) as well as the church's opinion. He fully supports it saying that in some denomination same sex marriage should be included and that medical transitions where something he never spoke against just advising to wait until your brain is developed.

The other questions asked where also intresting including whether women should become priests and actually he said that in a perfect world it would work. The way he worded it was much better but he clearly seemed to dislike the misogynistic ways of the church.

There was alot more from evolution to whether aliens exist. im sorry I wasn't able to ask your guy's questions but I didn't feel comfortable with children present. Clearly he's pretty progressive and im glad there are priests like him. Definitely 1 in a million but I think the reason he's being more open on his opinions is he's retiring this next summer. Hopefully this was actually useful, next time i get the opportunity though i'll bring up these questions to him and report back. 🥹

So back when I was practicing and all that jazz, some kid was I never saw before was making his first communion. Kid and his parents were wearing leather jackets just like the Fonz in Happy days, the kid was wearing ripped jeans (maybe parents too) but everyone underdressed.

During the homily, the priest does his shpiel how this day is so special for the kid, etc. Well when it was time to have the Communtion, the kid took the host, just looked at it and started walking off with it. The priest chased this kid down to make sure he consumed the host which he evenrtually did.

To a Catholic it was so mind boggling, to an ex-catholic it's even more mind boggling. The kid was obviously un-prepared, I don't think him or the parents were very church going as it was the first and last time I Ever saw them, and I obviously have no idea how this all came about.

Long story short, my very Catholic, 97 year old, Polish grandmother passed away on the 11th. Being that she lived two hours away from where my grandfather is buried, to make it easier for my mom (and dad) to help her, she was cremated.

So the funeral is on October 30 in the town she and my parents live in. Then the next day, the inurnment is happening where she'll be buried with my grandfather. My uncle and aunt, and mom and dad had six kids between them. 5 of us are married, 9 kids between all of them.

It's a three hour one way drive for me to go for what, a 20 minute ceremony.

People keep checking in on me, worried I'm going to break down, but, really, 97 years of life with a week long decline after a fall, and dying of natural causes seems pretty great to me. Maybe I've watched too many hospice nurses talking about death for it to bother me. I mean, we all die at some point, hopefully with a decently long life behind us.

My husband and I will probably go, but I'm just looking for other people's feelings on the whole thing.

Most of the time I’m able to joke about my religious trauma. And at this point I’ve been in enough weddings and have enough family still in the church that I can be in a Catholic Church without feeling sick the way I used to. I don’t like it - in fact I hate it - but I power through. I don’t make it anyone else’s problem (gee, I wonder where striving for that came from.)

So of course, this weekend, when my three month old niece was being baptized, I attended. I sat in the second row of pews and quietly and respectfully sat while everyone around me prayed. No issue.

At different points during the ceremony, she would cry. To the deacon’s credit - he did tell the parents beforehand, “They’re going to cry - and that’s okay. Don’t worry about quieting them for my sake or anyone else’s. It’s not disrespectful or rude - they’re babies. Feel free to comfort them, but don’t be worried.” He was very informal for most of the ceremony. Made jokes, had the families of the babies participate and encouraged us to ask questions. It was a church with a very different energy to the one my brother and I grew up in - up to a point. When my niece would cry, which I had obviously seen and heard before - and yet i suddenly felt like crying myself. I couldn’t look at her without my heart hurting. I knew she was fine. Safe in my brother’s arms. But I just felt like sobbing. I told myself I was just emotional. Hormonal maybe.

I look back today and I realized something. During the ceremony, once the babies had been blessed, the deacon gave a talk about their white gowns. And remarked how from the moment of our baptism up until we die, we wear these gowns. And that we will be wearing them one day when we’re judged. And that every single we have committed from the time of our baptism to judgement day - it stains that gown. And we must wear it.

I think maybe I cried during that ceremony because I am still so scared of that church. Not the building, but the institution. That I know what hearing about those stains did to me. That I know my brother and his wife are good and kind people. Who also didn’t care for the “stain,” speech. But that there is still only so much someone can do to protect themselves from this influence. My niece is just this tiny little thing. I don’t want her to be 28 and still continuously having to unpack the damage that this institution brought her. Wondering if she’s stained.

This may be sad or whatever, but I can't react to it any other way besides with lolz.

I hope you all had a great Sunday doing whatever.

Today is a day of such relief to me, and I honestly just wanted to share it. I stopped going to church three years ago, and I was going to formally leave the church as well, but then my parents got in the way. They didn’t want me to because that would mean the church couldn’t bury me with their rites, which was something really bad to them for some reason.

It has been in the back of my mind constantly since then though. I’m an atheist with a lot of anti-theist views, and the fact that I’m formally considered a catholic makes me want to puke. So today I sent in the form to actually be removed from the registers and not be considered a catholic anymore. And it feels amazing. It’s such a relief that I won’t be buried in a way that would be a desecration of my body and memory if you ask me, but also that I get an actual chance to denounce and condemn the church.

So yeah, I’m just really happy about it :)
Did anyone else here do it as well?

Hi everyone, I'm a 23F excatholic curious about weddings as an excatholic who also doesn't believe in other denominations of Christianity. Have any of you had to navigate having a wedding you want your Catholic family members to attend but have to deal with pressures to have your wedding in the church?

My parents and extended family are all Catholic and heavily religious. I'm nowhere near getting married or planning for it but I've started to think and I don't see myself having a wedding in the church. I want an outdoor wedding in a natural scenery or something small and rustic indoors that has no religious influences but I know a decision like that would upset my parents and family (they don't even know I don't believe anymore).

Have you any of you had to deal with a situation like this and how did you handle it?

I’ll make this short and sweet, here are my main objections
1. How do we know Jesus really rose?
2. Why am I going to hell for jacking off? 😭 it just seems absurd
3. More seriously, why am I going to hell for being gay, and why do I have to live a completely celibate life if I want any hope

Hi, I'm not a member here because I don't want to be triggered by the content in my feed. I'm diagnosed with PTSD, and religious institution is one of my external causes. I left the church in 2021.

I can't seem to find a straight answer online, but specifically per Canon law, what makes a person count as being Catholic? My youngest was baptized and raised Catholic until age 5, then did not make any further sacraments. And then my oldest was baptized and had first Eucharist before we left the church at age 12, but was not confirmed.

And this has me wondering if either of them get married in the future, are they considered Catholic according to Canon law or only as baptized Christians? I am only looking for a Canon law here, not who "counts" in the so-called rosters. Our family was registered at two different Catholic churches over the years.

I've been thinking about this bc my mother (Catholic convert) and father (lifelong atheist but had an infant baptism in a Lutheran church) are getting their marriage convalidated, which is a whole other story. And this has me wondering about my own kids' sacramental history. Theoretically if one of my kids is considered Catholic by Canon law and chooses to get married, I am certain that my mother will not attend unless it's a Catholic wedding or they get dispensation.

Thanks for your insight.

Whenever I try to find some ex Catholic resources, most of them are from converts to Protestant or orthodox faiths. Personally I find them all the same thing with different flavour. It would be so helpful in my deconstruction if there are resources about ex Catholics who are atheist/agnostic. Thank you♥️

So this is a slight continuation from my previous posts about being expelled from the choir.

Even though "unsubscribing" from doctrine has been surprisingly easy (I was really surprised to just see the ridiculousness of 💫transubstantiation and the "Real Presence" (lmao give me a break!), it still irks me to no end how that prick of a music director had the fucking nerve to preach about me "forgetting the mission."

Hey man, just because you're an ex-seminarian doesn't make you an authority about life missions, what more for your personal choir. Did you even realize how stupid you sounded when you said that to me via my inbox? We literally just sing according to what's in the ritual, along with your personal quirks and local customs.

What mission is there to be had being a choir member? All I remember are people messing with the volume knob on the keyboard, dictating what they wanted out of me, and not even being heard with my own suggestions.

If we're talking about mission, I've done more last year than you, pal! You and your fellow ex-seminarian buddy don't get to throw around who's The Guy when all we ever do is sing and hurry up because priests are impatient as fuck.

I never even got paid with a formal stipend from that stupid thing. I research pieces, buy some from publishers, make photocopies, but hey, I forgot the mission. Wow, okay!

It's too bad the outgoing rector never bothered to respond to my letter addressing you and the whole music ministry, and washed his hands off the damn thing despite being very much involved with the Christmas miscommunication. I hope you enjoy your current assignment there, you enabling fuck; playing favorites and all.

I hope you weren't fucking surprised when I told two people that I quit the bedamned ministry after your buddy kicked me out of the group chat. I still hate your ass, and I still despise you for that "mission" remark, despite me literally being involved with civil society.

You know, you're the kind of Catholic who's so fucking strict about things, but through vibes, like certain trads who mock people who have a hard time with kneelers or kneeling, especially before an exposed flatbread wafer in a golden lamp. God, you guys make me sick.

There's no real fucking mission playing hymns!

I joined in 2020 because I needed something to believe in, and I was running on empty. I drank too much and I used pornography and I wasn’t a healthy or a happy man. I hoped that Catholicism could show me ancient wisdom our society has forgotten on how to live. That ended up being partially true, but the institution itself has big flaws.

First of all, the Rosary is a plus. I still like it and pray it. It became an avenue through which I encountered the supernatural. Mary visited me, but she told me she is a wild Mary and she shone with divine light. This contradicted the Catholic view of Mary. I had an internal conflict but ultimately I followed my heart and worshiped Mary as a Goddess, and from there I came to understand that the Mother Goddess herself is only one aspect of the Morning Star Goddess.

I began to worship Aphrodite a year ago, in clear contradiction of Catholicism. Catholics have told me repeatedly I’m not a Catholic. However at this point I want to mention that my theological change to embrace Aphrodite occurred at the same time as I left my right wing Young Adults group. The men were mostly converts like me, but unlike me who converted because I was seeking ancient wisdom and I am left wing even was a member of the Communist Party, they were right wing and also racist. It turned out that sharing racist jokes was how you were ‘one of the boys’, and I wouldn’t participate despite how much I wanted friends because I was simply raised that racism was not acceptable and I believe that and even the opportunity to have the friends I wanted wasn’t enough for me to change in that. So they ostracized me and that’s probably a good thing because it did ultimately lead to me leaving. I should have left on my own sooner once I saw who they were, but unfortunately I didn’t I denied I was seeing what I thought I was seeing for a long time.

I am better off as a person than I was when I became Catholic. The blunt instrument of the Mass and Confession and treating things as mortal sins worked to get my life cleaned up. However, the community is terrible and non existent. Most of the new converts are racist and doing it for that reason, also misogynistic and homophobic as well. Anyone not a new convert most likely doesn’t show up.

I feel I have outgrown what Catholicism has to offer today, and I don’t intend to start denying that the Divine is female not just male. I feel the patriarchal nature of the Abrahamic religions including Catholicism is a lie against what human nature really is and we need to get past it.

Also, women should be priests or priestesses, the rules against premarital sex are mistaken, the rules against LGBT are also mistaken.

I am grateful for where I have grown, but I have received a measure of Gnosis and want to understand how to take the wheat without imbibing the chaff.

I still have no community and that’s a problem, but the one I have for worship of Aphrodite on Discord is starting to feel like we have some serious people so that’s nice. Ultimately what I really want is to belong and have friends under the umbrella of a Divine Presence that is good. I hoped that would be Catholicism but unfortunately for me after six years I know it’s not

Aside from the abusive aspects of Catholicism what do you think of the religion as a whole?