Taylor’s archive website is updated to teal with a flower graphic for her 20th anniversary of music! I’ll be back tomorrow on the actual anniversary of Taylor Swift (album) for a little retrospective, but let’s clown away here.

1) are you still holding out hope for Debut to be rereleased this year?

2) since we know she’s recorded it already, what are your top songs you want to see out of the vault?

3) which track do you think will be most improved by her mature voice? Which do you think may suffer being sung by someone 20 years later than the original?

4) any other things you’re on High Alert, Clown O’ Clock for???

5) if you are expecting nothing but this single acknowledgment, you’re welcome here too! But let’s not talk down to, or act snarky to people who hope for more.

For a bit of fun on a Friday what type of bread would you associate with each album?

Not all are super accurate but I had some fun looking up different breads and trying to link them with albums. Let me know what I got right or wrong or what breads you would pick for each album!

Debut – Cornbread (I know usually a southern thing but still a very country thing as well)

Fearless – Banana Bread (I couldn’t find one that fit Fearless but thought this fit decently)

Speak Now – Biscuit (firm top with soft inside)

Red – Pumpernickel (Very heavy, dense, slightly sweet dark pure rye)

1989 – Cracker (usually manufactured in large quantities and as I think this is the first big big album of Taylor’s that many got into I think it fits well)

Reputation – Coffin Bread (a type of bread that is hollowed out a filled with savory food and the top put back on giving it a coffin look)

Lover – Brioche (a sweeter bread sometimes used in French desserts)

Folklore – Scone (small quick bread, just for the size of folklore album and the time it took to make)

Evermore – Cottage Loaf (name is for the shape)

Midnights – Cozonac (I thought it said lavender at first not leavened but I still think with the flavors and the swirl it fits Midnights)

The Tortured Poets Department – Biscotti (I don’t even know why but when I read the description this is the album I thought of)

The Life of a Showgirl – Sourdough (since sourdough even made an appearance on a MV for Showgirl)

I almost don’t even know what to say about this image, of a “discussion” about Cleveland! that shows the level that at least some listeners are operating at. To add to the people who cannot recognize metaphor or sarcasm, we now have people who cannot recognize a quotation in the third person, but about the subject of the song.

Taylor’s songs use point of view in various ways, and I’d love to have a discussion in the comments about your favorites! Or some place where the POV does get tricky… but this is the first time I think I’ve seen the POV so drastically misinterpreted. I do fear that we have reached the point where the concept of talking about oneself in the third person is an advanced literary technique…

I don’t want to just throw my hands up in despair tho. Is this some TS-specific induced illiteracy?

How are we supposed to fix this? Is there some way we can use the fact that people are absurdly tuned in to Taylor music to brute force them into some basic literacy?

Open discussion on POV and interpretation in TS songs but also any ideas about… what to do

Red was released on October 22nd, 2012. The following is just red ramblings.

How did you feel about Taylor during this era? Speak now had been the soundtrack to my mom’s hospital stay, so I was not a fan of Taylor. However, I was also in an on-again-off-again relationship. WANEGBT was the perfect song to sing and dance to with my friends when we’d breakup. 22 was the song to post on everyone’s facebook wall when they turned 22. Even when I wasn’t a fan, Taylor was still the soundtrack to my life.

Red is the fall album. Tbh i dont think i would associate red with fall if not for swifties telling me so. Was this a thing during the red era or part of the red tv rebrand? What about red makes it a fall album?

My favorite song from Red is State Of Grace Acoustic. It’s my self-compassion song. Also, Girl At Home is a bop.

Midnights turns 4 somehow today! The Swiftverse has been so radically transformed since its release, in someways (or so I’m told), it’s unrecognizable. How much of that is due to the album itself is a worthy question.

I am going to make a bold claim or two here, and then ask a few Qs to discuss my fave TS album.

I think Midnights is a masterpiece, and Taylor’s best album, considered as a whole (including the 3am tracks, Hits Diff and You’re Losing Me). It is “sonically cohesive” without being boring — and for Taylor her most adventurous album in terms of production effects. It has songs across all three “pens” (quill only on 3am I suppose) that are elite lyrically, and the songs do cohere around the stated theme, imo, very well.

The aesthetic, confusing tho it apparently was to some, is on theme and frankly gorgeous.

And for me, it is a perfect “listening experience” album — a pair of good headphones and/or a turntable, a bit of incense, a chilly fall or winter evening, a glass of wine (or other preferred substance)… elite.

Questions to chat about (whichever ones speak to you):

* how have your feelings/evaluation of the album changed over time?

* where do you rank it, especially in comparison to other “pop” albums of TS?

* do you think the 3am tracks drastically change the album?

* lots of people joked/whined about Maroon and YOYOK not being a part of the Midnights set at Eras (tho it is clear why they weren’t, imo!).

If you were designing a Midnights tour, would it have looked similar to the Eras set? What deep cuts would you include/exclude? What songs from other albums would “vibe” with a Midnights tour sound?

* would you be interested in Taylor returning to this sound/exploring or experimenting even further in this sonic landscape in the future?

Post your favorite Taymemes or photos you've seen this week here! Have fun with it, but keep sub rules and reddit rules in mind.

To begin our celebration of this week of albumversaries…

What is your favorite TS album rollout?

Explain why below.

——

Question for discussion: does Taylor even need an “album rollout” in the traditional sense anymore? Do they even maybe do more harm than good in allowing expectations and narratives to build up and inevitably cause disappointment when subverted?

This is not to say that Taylor should only ever “surprise drop” a la folklore, but does she need a long lead time for pre-orders or any promo in advance of the album release (especially if she is not putting out a pre-release single)?

Taylor has said before that she has three kinds of songs she writes Glitter Gel Pen, Fountain Pen and Quill Pen Songs. Here is a little description of each pen style from Apple Music.

Fountain Pen Songs: unlike the period-piece-like details of Quill Pen Lyrics, Fountain Pen songs feel more rooted in the modern day, their lyrics teeming with more familiar narratives and references. “The songs I categorize in this style sound like confessions scribbled and sealed in an envelope, but too brutally honest to ever send.” (from acceptance speech at the Nashville Songwriter Awards in September 2022).

Quill Pen Songs: “If my lyrics sound like a letter written by Emily Dickinson’s great grandmother while sewing a lace curtain, that’s me writing in the Quill genre,” (from acceptance speech at the Nashville Songwriter Awards in September 2022).

Glitter Gel Pen Songs: “lives up to its name in every way, Frivolous, carefree, bouncy, syncopated perfectly to the beat, Glitter Gel Pen lyrics don’t care if you don’t take them seriously because they don’t take themselves seriously. Glitter Gel Pen lyrics are the drunk girl at the party who tells you that you look like an angel in the bathroom. It’s what we need every once in a while in these fraught times in which we live.” (from acceptance speech at the Nashville Songwriter Awards in September 2022).

Do you think when Taylor is writing she is thinking of a certain pen type? Or is this more of a fun fan thing to sort after the song is written?

What is your favorite song from each pen, with songwriting in mind(melodies, harmonies not just lyrics)?

Do you think it would be better if she stuck to one type of pen or is variety better?

Do you think people remember these definitions when they use the terms?

I've never listened to a Taylor swift album and honestly kind of clowned on her, what album should I listen to?

Edit: I've listened to 1989, It definitely has her most popular songs on it, my least favorite is Out of the Woods, and favorite Wildest Dreams/This love. I'm gonna do Red album next.

Nobody in this room “had to be there”. Most of them paid good money to be there. Nobody here needs to suck up to Taylor Swift for their own career. Most of the videos we have of Taylor’s performance so far are from other celebs posting!

There is a narrative that a lot of powerful people don’t like Taylor — and in terms of the the music industry, that’s probably true. But as her wedding and this performance demonstrates, Taylor’s cultural capital is actually huge.

Why is there so much hate online then? Well… there’s definitely people (and organizations) who see a room like this and don’t like what they see. For various reasons, some of which are better to leave unstated here lol.

But the online hate just doesn’t reach or matter to the people in a room like this.

No amount of bitching and moaning online is going to take away from what being able to move and shake in a room like this will give Taylor.

First ever The Fate Of Ophelia performance!!!!

Taylor also performed Blank Space, Love Story, and I Knew It, I Knew You.

What do you think about her song selection choice?

And how much do you love the sparkly dress???

Also, Conan O’Brien introduced her saying she was John, Paul, George and Ringo all in one.

I really love her hair!

Excited to see what songs she performs later too!

A recurring theme in Taylor Swift “criticism” especially now that she “has everything” is that she should… stop trying. That she is some kind of Lady Macbeth whose blind ambition is evil in itself; that doing basic pop star thinga like releasing physicals or doing interviews of even doing her Gala performance tomorrow are “trying too hard”.

Doing your job “too well” is “chart blocking”. Releasing music “too often” is “tiring”. Wanting awards is, ugh, sooo lame. So lame that a “journalist” thinks a punny headline on one of TS’ own songs is a sick burn.

This also is a part of what I call the “she’s only more popular because she has more fans” problem. People get mad bc Taylor’s “numbers advantage” of fans means that her work will always sell and stream well. But this criticism acts like theae fans came out of nowhere and were given to her, rather than the result of years of hard work and constantly giving fans positive experiences, both with herself and her work.

If Taylor is the only (big) popstar who is willing to do this sort of thing, why is that a negative reflection on her?

I think this is — like usually — a reflection of a larger social issue. Being seen to make effort is “cringe”, caring too much is embarrassing; throwing your haters’ own words back in their face, say, is “petty”. People (women) should be as small and obtrusive and accomodating as possible.

Ambition and trying hard means taking up space, taking up oxygen. It means fighting for your place, even now. I guess I just can’t figure out why no one who wants what Taylor has is willing to do what she did to get it.

Am I missing something? Am I off base?

Starlight is another entry into what I call Taylor's "love fable" songs from her early discography - Mary's Song, Love Story, Mine, and now Starlight. These songs speak to how Taylor imagines an ideal relationship blooming at this stage in her life and take inspiration from film, history, and older relationships Taylor has seen around her.

(I think there's some later songs like You Are In Love and especially It's Nice To Have A Friend that I might also throw under this umbrella!)

So what does this love fable tell us about Red era Taylor's evolving views on love? I think a really big theme of Red era is that early 20s excitement for a wide open future and this song presents a partner who is a willing partner in that future. Have ten kids and teach em how to dreammmmmmm! The celestial imagery here, I think, is being used to suggest the vastness of the couples ambitions.

The nature of those ambitions takes on a lightly political tone knowing the inspiration for this song was the relationship between Ethel and Robert Kennedy - I always took the line of teaching the kids "how to dream" being lightly feminist. Moreover I think this song along with The Lucky One are also an early introduction into Taylor's fascination with American old money glamour that we'd see continue on songs like The Last Great American Dynasty and Elizabeth Taylor.

Personally, this has always been a welcome jolt of energy in the back half of the Red tracklist, but I admit I like Mary's Song and reach for it the most of this archetype. The pop production I think is a bit bland despite the fun concept and inspiring bridge.

What do you think of this song or other Taylor Swift "love fables"?

Taylor has been at the top for what seems like most of her career. She won her first Album of the Year Grammy with her 2nd album Fearless and has been seemingly unstoppable since. Though all but 1 of her albums reached no. 1 on the Billboard 200, she didn’t get her first no. 1 Hot 100 until WANEGBT. But every new album since Red has produced at least one no. 1 hit, though Lover did not get its no.1 until Cruel Summer in 2023. The reason I bring up Billboard is because it is the true teller of what is popular and what may last the test of time. Taylor is the outlier in terms of Grammys, for example, in that she has 4 Album of the Year wins, but most of the other massive artists have only a few: The Beatles: one AOTY and only 6 Grammys as an active band Michael Jackson: a little closer to Taylor with 13 Grammys though only 1 AOTY Madonna: 7 Grammys no AOTY wins. More modern examples: Drake: 5 Grammy wins no AOTY, Rhianna 5 no AOTY, Beyonce 35 Grammy awards with 1 AOTY. With such inconsistencies in the awards, Billboard is really where you can compare directly and see who is relevant to the general public. Billboard stats (no. 1s only)

-              The Beatles(10 years, 13 albums) – 19 BB200, 20 Hot 100

-              Mariah Carey(38 years, 16 albums) – 6 BB200, 19 Hot 100

-              Taylor Swift(20 years, 12 albums) – 15 BB200, 16 Hot 100

-              Drake(20 years, 11/13 albums, 2 collaboration albums) – 15 BB200, 14 Hot 100

-              Madonna(43 years, 15 albums) - 10 BB200, 12 Hot 100

-              Michael Jackson(45 years, 10 solo albums) - 6 BB200, 13 Hot 100

-              Beyonce(36 years, 8 solo albums) - 8 BB200, 9 Hot 100

-              Rhianna(11 years, 8 albums) - 2 BB200, 14 Hot 100

Discussion questions:

Do you think all of these artists have something in common?

What makes them stand above all the rest?

Is it the way they interact with fans?

Does their celebrity status bring in just as many people as the songs?

Is it creative innovation or rather, the lack of innovation that allows everyday people to engage with their music?

Why does Taylor’s career look so different to the others, in having multiple peaks and the highest peak relatively late in her career?

Though Taylor is 20 years into her career she is showing no signs of stopping, will she be able to maintain this level of dominance for long? How long?

What do you think she will do with the next 20 years?

Two of my favorite songs! In both songs, Taylor talks about being bubbly, sparkling and smiling outwardly when inside you are falling apart. I love the analogy of being held together by a smile, like it’s a piece of string, easily unraveled, but so long as the knot holds, you can preserve the facade.

ICDIWABH obviously focuses on the stage, but I think for a lot of us with people-facing jobs, work is a stage. I work with toddlers, I cant be having a bad day. I need to show up in my glittering prime, tied together with a smile. As the crowd is chanting “more bubbles”.

One notable difference between songs is Taylor’s confidence. In TTWAS, she shares insecurity that she is not “the golden one”. In ICDIWABH, there is no doubt that she’s the music industry and she can pull this off. TTWAS is the song for the end of the day when the mask can slip. ICDIWABH is the pep talk in the middle of the day between seeing kids.

- Do you find these songs relatable? One more than the other?
- What are your thoughts on how she talks about love in both songs? I love the verse about being a penny left out in the rain.
- Other songs to add to the comparison?
- Any other similarities/differences you noticed?

New music video for Patient Zero featuring mostly behind the scenes footage!

The scene with Travis is adorable.

I tried to make the post picture the scene where Taylor is excitedly tapping on someone. It’s about 1 minute in. But spotify wouldnt let me screenshot.

It’s cool seeing Taylor at work. The early morning bread did not make the video.

I always love when people justify their bad advice by saying they have a cousin who works in PR or an aunt who is a music industry insider or whatever.

Taylor’s submissions for consideration for grammy nomination.

What do you think? Would you have submitted the same songs or different ones?

Personally, i think Opalite got snubbed. I like IKIIKY, and it was a very popular song. But my personal preference is for Opalite.

So NBNC is Taylor’s first hint that she will eventually give us a whole murder mystery! I stand by this claim 😊 and cannot be convinced otherwise.

Anyway, Taylor is fundamentally a storyteller, as we know, and NBNC is a story song of a specific trope, that is to say a “murder ballad”, a relatively popular type of song in country music, featuring murder, greed, corruption, violence, exploitation, adultery and treachery… sorry, excuse me. Anyway, many have fairly said this song is “TS does Goodbye Earl” and I think that’s pretty much accurate.

“Just because something is cliche doesnt mean it’s not awesome” as a wise woman once said. We love tropes* (autocorrect keeps thinking I am trying to say Tropez 😆) and formulas like romance novels, murder ballads or mystery novels featuring country houses and decaying aristocracy and suspicious butlers because we feel comfort from having our expectations met, with the suspense and uncertainty coming not from a bold explosion of the form but from wondering how the resolution will come about within the boundaries of the trope/genre.

I would argue pretty strongly that this is one of the most important explanations for the success of Taylor Swift, in general. She writes pop songs that tend to adhere pretty closely to song structures and chord progressions and vocal range that is familiar and comfortable (though of course there are fun exceptions!) while providing lots of surprises in language, plot twists and character development over time. And like romance name mystery novels, many critics and snobs dismiss her work bc it is generally uninterested in grand innovation and instead on direct emotional impact and connection. And like the ending of a good mystery novel, we feel satisfied at the end of a song.

There is a lot to be said for this type of experience, and a lot of reasons to stick up for its value as art.

NBNC is a fun song, entirely on theme on an album about endings, and is a also a cute variation on the TS-storytelling verse, looping as it does thw name of her real life friend and “collaborator” on the song, Este Haim, into the story. It might lack the emotional punch of some of the other songs on the album, for being something that is a bit of writing exercise rather than art driven from her own personal emotional experience, unless you are one of those folks who has decided that if Taylor writes about something in a song it means she must have done it, and endorses it!

In which case, well, I have a pretty interesting pitch for a Netflix series if you want to hear it? Call it Dexter x Vigilante Shit.

• Do you agree that cliches can be awesome? What’s your favorite recurrent TS trope?

• what’s your favorite purely, for sure for sure, fictional TS song?

• Do you think NBNC fits on evermore?

• What format should Taylor’s original murder mystery be? Album, novel, film, tv series?

There has been a lot of discourse with showgirl songs saying that we don’t get to know travis and to understand why she loves him the way we’ve gotten to know her other muses. But I like data, so…

What do we actually know about her muses? From the song lyrics themselves. Forget everything about the actual person. If all you knew was taylor’s song lyrics, what do we know about each muse?

For example:
Showgirl - from the lyrics on Honey, we know the muse is trustworthy, he doesn’t play games to belittle or manipulate, he’s sincere

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Weekly Discussion Thread will be posted every Sunday at 12 am pacific time!

(This chart was from yesterday so doesnt actually have ME! over a billion)

What causes a song in Taylor’s catalogue to get to that billions club is an interesting topic. Because she is literally competing with herself with her Fearless and 1989 hits, the chart would look a bit different if those were combined. And of course she is competing with herself for streams in general, with 12 albums and around 300 songs.

Other points of intrigue: august and Don’t Blame Me at 9 and 11 despite never being singles. Also Enchanted at number 24. ATW10 but no sign of ATW OG. The Fate of Ophelia already at number 10 all time at only a year old.
SMASHphelia more like!

And somehow, Lover at number 4.

Anyway, which of these 29 songs is/are in your personal S-tier and which are in your personal D-tier? Do you think this chart says anything as to the oft-repeated claim that Taylor is an album artist?